Second opinion

[mrsmelly]

4 minutes ago, bizzard said:

This is done with trawlers too, The Dutch are good at it, Rotterdam is a favourite. They use a large forklift truck with long forks to lift the engines in and out. Only trouble is if the bloke who cuts the hole has a mental measuring blockage, transferring measurements from inside to outside and keeps having pot shots at it all over the shop until he finds the starter. The boat can end up like a patchwork quilt.

I was well impressed when it was done to our frigate in  the frigate complex in Devonport, we were the first ship in their after it was built but thats incidental. First some large ring bolts were welded on  about four locations on the hull side  and chains attached to them and to an overhead crane and slightly tensioned then a piece the size of a small bus was cut out with oxy/acet and craned away. Replacement  was similar but of course welded back in place. Warship hulls are quite light so not a major problem.

[ditchcrawler]

1 minute ago, mrsmelly said:

I was well impressed when it was done to our frigate in  the frigate complex in Devonport, we were the first ship in their after it was built but thats incidental. First some large ring bolts were welded on  about four locations on the hull side  and chains attached to them and to an overhead crane and slightly tensioned then a piece the size of a small bus was cut out with oxy/acet and craned away. Replacement  was similar but of course welded back in place. Warship hulls are quite light so not a major problem.

I have seen real bow thuster motors changed like that

 

[bizzard]

7 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

I was well impressed when it was done to our frigate in  the frigate complex in Devonport, we were the first ship in their after it was built but thats incidental. First some large ring bolts were welded on  about four locations on the hull side  and chains attached to them and to an overhead crane and slightly tensioned then a piece the size of a small bus was cut out with oxy/acet and craned away. Replacement  was similar but of course welded back in place. Warship hulls are quite light so not a major problem.

What were the engines, Diesel, steam or gas turbines ?

[mrsmelly]

7 minutes ago, bizzard said:

What were the engines, Diesel, steam or gas turbines ?

Oil fired steam turbines. Twin huge screws with 30,000 shp. Happy days.

Edited April 13, 2018 by mrsmelly

[Iain_S]

2 hours ago, dmr said:

and when the mini first came out a lot of mechanics ridiculed it because it was obviously impossible to change the clutch without taking the engine out, but then before long clutch replacements were routinely done in situ and didn't actually take that long. (snip)

And easier than taking the gearbox out ...

Lot easier than the Morris 1000, where it was quicker to take the engine out.

[dmr]

3 minutes ago, Iain_S said:

And easier than taking the gearbox out ...

Lot easier than the Morris 1000, where it was quicker to take the engine out.

and extra easy if it had been done before and the mechanic had kindly not replaced those bottom two clutch cover bolts. Maybe this is what the OP needs, get the starter motor out then replace it without the bolts, just hold it in place with a bit of bluetack 

..............Dave

[Sea Dog]

5 hours ago, frahkn said:

I have attempted to post 3 photos, they are not the clearest but are all I have (not on the boat at the moment).

I can see from the photos why changing the starter motor would be a right b******!  That said, I wouldn't relish getting the starter out of my Beta 43 in my conventional trad stern rear engine hole either. Unless there's something else wrong like with the shaft UJs (and I've quite lost the plot on that now) I'd be inclined to leave the damned thing where it is and cross the bridge only if and when you come to it. It's not like a dicky starter is gonna leave you marooned in the Kalahari desert. 

[ditchcrawler]

14 minutes ago, Sea Dog said:

  Unless there's something else wrong like with the shaft UJs (and I've quite lost the plot on that now) I'd be inclined to leave the damned thing where it is and cross the bridge only if and when you come to it.  

I think that is where we started,the starter motor was a byproduct 

[Sea Dog]

5 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

I think that is where we started,the starter motor was a byproduct 

See - I said I'd lost the plot! 

[dmr]

Right, so is it failing UJ's that are the big issue? or a suspected UJ related vibration problem, or the stern gland wearing from the side thrust?. I really want to know what the "driver" is for this radical bit of engineering (oops, used a bad buzzword there) How many hours has it all done so far?, what is the articulation angle?, has it failed before?, have the joints been routinely greased? etc etc.   and how long is the shaft?.

I really am not an expert on this, but speaking on the basis of uneducated guesses, I would not be too concerned about a fairly significant angle, its what UJs are designed for. Carrying the thrust is a bit more concerning but if there is space available its very easy to fix that.

...............Dave

[frahkn]

55 minutes ago, dmr said:

Right, so is it failing UJ's that are the big issue? or a suspected UJ related vibration problem, or the stern gland wearing from the side thrust?. I really want to know what the "driver" is for this radical bit of engineering (oops, used a bad buzzword there) How many hours has it all done so far?, what is the articulation angle?, has it failed before?, have the joints been routinely greased? etc etc.   and how long is the shaft?.

I really am not an expert on this, but speaking on the basis of uneducated guesses, I would not be too concerned about a fairly significant angle, its what UJs are designed for. Carrying the thrust is a bit more concerning but if there is space available its very easy to fix that.

...............Dave

The drive has always been clunky and noisy while I've had the boat (5 and a bit years). The boat yard say that the UJs are shot. I cannot confirm that myself but have no reason to doubt them - it certainly sounds like a bag of spanners but always has since I have owned the boat. There are no issues with the stern gland.

The drive is a two piece aqua-drive, the first part is about 12 feet long and the second about 3 feet. I should be able to work out the angles but can't at this time of night. It says it is maintenance free so nothing has been greased - it runs in a dry, clean environment and looks fine.

I've  only owned the boat for a third of its 15 years but I don't think there were any problems under its two previous owners.

There is a total of 7894 hours on the tach.

[TheBiscuits]

1 minute ago, frahkn said:

The drive has always been clunky and noisy while I've had the boat (5 and a bit years). The boat yard say that the UJs are shot. I cannot confirm that myself but have no reason to doubt them - it certainly sounds like a bag of spanners but always has since I have owned the boat. There are no issues with the stern gland.

The drive is a two piece aqua-drive, the first part is about 12 feet long and the second about 3 feet. I should be able to work out the angles but can't at this time of night. It says it is maintenance free so nothing has been greased - it runs in a dry, clean environment and looks fine.

I've  only owned the boat for a third of its 15 years but I don't think there were any problems under its two previous owners.

There is a total of 7894 hours on the tach.

Just replace the UJs.  How many times can that be done for the boat redesign and engine move quoted at eyewatering figures?

[dmr]

I think we have gone round in a huge but interesting circle here. Yes, you need a second opinion from a good engineer who can look at your installation, measure the various angles and talk to Aquadrive if required, but I do think that an overhaul of the current system should be the way forward unless it proves to be way out of spec. 7900 hours is a lot, a lifetime for many boaters, and almost 6 years for manic boaters like me. A hefty clunk when engaging gear is not that unusual.

.............Dave

[Tony Brooks]

But Aquadrives are constant velocity joints, not universal joints and as such do not generate cyclic vibrations. It should also have an inbuilt thrust block at the prop shaft end.

Not a lot of help I know and now we can see how the bill can mount up if two Aquadrive sets are slated for replacement (that is two shafts each with a thrust bearing and two CV joints).

Are you sure they are true Aquadrives/Pythondrives and not something locally fabricated.

Definitely at least talk to Aquadrive and I suspect a phone call to Nick at T W Marine could be helpful.

With lengthens like those mentioned and trying to picture it in a typical narrowboat with offset engine I don't think the drive angles will be excessive.

FWIW you can get wear on the non-sliding internal splines in Aquadrives. Rebuilding with suitable Loktite seems to work. You can check the CVs for wear by gripping the shaft on both sides and twisting back and forth. There should be virtually no play.

 

[frahkn]

I came upon this old thread of mine while trying to do something else(*) and realised that I had committed the sin of not saying how things turned out. Sorry for the 4 year delay.

 

I took it to Debdale where the pump-out toilet, waste tank and bath were removed. The engine was moved to a central position and the old bathroom was divided into an engine room and a new shower room. The did a really good job albeit at an eye-watering cost (which I recognise would not be recovered if the boat were sold).

 

It solved the engine access and noisy drive issues and created a useful engine room. The only loss was the full size bath which we only used as a shower-tray anyway.

 

No pictures cause I am not on the boat at the moment.

 

(*)P.S.     How do you switch off the politics threads (what I was trying to do in the first place)?

[Athy]

13 minutes ago, frahkn said:

 

 

(*)P.S.     How do you switch off the politics threads (what I was trying to do in the first place)?

I don't know how you gain access to the forum. But if you go to the "View New Content" page, those threads are not shown.

[frahkn]

33 minutes ago, Athy said:

I don't know how you gain access to the forum. But if you go to the "View New Content" page, those threads are not shown.

Athy,

 

That doesn't seem to be the case for me.

 

When I open the site the home page is as follows:-

 

1st line starts with the logo and ends with my name

2nd line starts with "browse" and ends with the search box

3rd line starts with "forums" and ends with "privacy policy"

4th line only contains three items "home" "new stuff" and "mark site read"

 

I click on "new stuff" and go to the list of topics which have had entries since my last visit. But this page does include political topics.

 

 

[Athy]

29 minutes ago, frahkn said:

Athy,

 

That doesn't seem to be the case for me.

 

When I open the site the home page is as follows:-

 

 

 

 

I would stress that I am no computer expert. But you speak of opening the "home page".

My suggestion was that you look at "View New Content" rather than the hoe page*.

Have you tried entering "Canal World View New Content" into your search engine? 

 

* Apologies for the agricultural typo.

Edited January 21, 2022 by Athy

[frahkn]

Relieved to hear that the typo was agricultural, bit concerned for a second.

 

Yes, I would prefer to view new content, especially if it gets me away from the politics area.

 

The problem is that I can't see your suggested  "View New Content" anywhere. I get broadly the same result i.e. see new content, from the "new stuff" 'button' which I do have access to.  But there is no way to exclude particular areas using this.

 

I really don't want to see "we have left the EU" reach 1000 pages, I am worried that my head would explode.

 

 

[TheBiscuits]

Just now, frahkn said:

The problem is that I can't see your suggested  "View New Content" anywhere. I get broadly the same result i.e. see new content, from the "new stuff" 'button' which I do have access to.  But there is no way to exclude particular areas using this.

 

Your "new stuff" button is a custom feed you have set up that includes the politics and current affairs section.

 

Click it, and on a computer at the top right of the screen (below the menus) you get options for changing it.  Delete your custom feed and it should either offer you a choice of any other feeds or just revert to the default "View new content" feed that doesn't display political threads.

[Athy]

Crumbs! Thank goodness someone who understands more about the wily ways of computers has joined the conversation. In my case, all I can say is that it works for me but I don't know why, which doesn't help Frank very much (if at all). I hope that your suggestion is more helpful.

[MtB]

Do you not have this link, here?

 

[Slow and Steady]

I prefer the test of self-control involved in ignoring the political threads... usually.

I sometimes type a reply to get it off my chest, then hit the back button without posting it. I was married for 25 years and understand that nobody listens to a word I say.

[TheBiscuits]

6 minutes ago, MtB said:

Do you not have this link, here?

 

 

His says "new stuff" there.

 

Mine says "VNC Tweaked" because that's what I chose to call it.

[GUMPY]

45 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

His says "new stuff" there.

 

Mine says "VNC Tweaked" because that's what I chose to call it.

Mine says "Shyte" because that's what it generally is 🤭