Bridgewater Canal

[ValandPete]

Of course you can. That will be £40 pounds, thank you!

 

This is why the new return rule is so unfair, we use the canal purely to get to other canals. The canal is not an attraction for me, it's 24 hour only stopping rule has always made it unattractive as a visitor.

 

Val

[Jim Riley]

Done the survey, with comments on the attitude and reputation of the enforcement officer, as requested on the survey. I wonder what effect it will have?

[vicafloat]

I am on the return journey from Liverpool, having spent 7 days in the docks then 3 days at Eldonian village

for the IWA festival to celebrate 200 yrs. of the Leeds & Liverpool canal. Many members of our boat club (Broken Cross

Boat Club) have been harassed by the enforcer Sonny Smith,who is quite adamant that if you exceed 7 consecutive days

on the Bridgewater canal you cannot return within 28 days. Those boats returning from Liverpool on this occasion have

been given a dispensation and CRT have now opened discussions with BCC. Watch this space!!

[ValandPete]

I don't think you have to have used your seven days to then have to pay to return within 28 days.

 

 

Val

[magictime]

Many members of our boat club (Broken Cross Boat Club) have been harassed by the enforcer Sonny Smith,who is quite adamant that if you exceed 7 consecutive days

on the Bridgewater canal you cannot return within 28 days.

 

It's not only 'if you exceed 7 consecutive days', surely? It's that you can't return within 28 days full stop, even if you've only spent (say) 3 days on the canal.

[StephenA]

Sonny Smith,who is quite adamant that if you exceed 7 consecutive days

on the Bridgewater canal you cannot return within 28 days.

 

 

You can return - but he wants to take money off you - how did he try to collect it?

 

It's not only 'if you exceed 7 consecutive days', surely? It's that you can't return within 28 days full stop, even if you've only spent (say) 3 days on the canal.

 

You can return, but not for free....

[ditchcrawler]

I don't think you have to have used your seven days to then have to pay to return within 28 days.

 

 

Val

Just go back through the thread http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=85081&p=1834391

[StephenA]

C&RT response seems to be "Yeah, so what... its nothing to do with us...":

 

Thank you for your enquiry. As it is Peel Holdings that have changed their agreement you will need to check with them what their reason behind this is as I'm sorry we do not hold any information about this.

 

Edited June 21, 2016 by StephenA

[BruceinSanity]

C&RT response seems to be "Yeah, so what... its nothing to do with us...":

 

Except this came in today:

 

Update on 21/06/2016:

 

Following Bridgewater Canal’s update of its approach to enforcement for Canal & River Trust licence holders (see below), we wanted to confirm that we will forward details of any licence holders wishing to use the Bridgewater Canal as part of passage to a festival this summer. Please contact us at enquiries.manchesterpennine@canalrivertrust.org.uk; or enquiries.northwest@canalrivertrust.org.uk, and provide your boat details (index number, name, and your name, and the festival that you are travelling to/from, and dates of travel), and we will pass these on.

 

We will provide a further update following a meeting planned with representatives of the Bridgewater Canal Company in July to discuss these issue.

 

The text below referred to in the notice was Peel's announcement of their tougher approach.

[Mike Todd]

C&RT response seems to be "Yeah, so what... its nothing to do with us...":

 

In principle it is exactly what I would have said in the circumstances, except that it would have been a tad more helpful to have added that they were seeking an urgent meeting with Peel Holdings to discuss all aspects of their joint agreement.

 

Since Peel seem adamant in their position yet their customers have probably more to lose, it is all too likely that the joint agreement will be abandoned and we will all be the losers. Let's hope that CaRT keep their cool but do not roll over just because Peel are powerful.

[StephenA]

Except this came in today:

 

Update on 21/06/2016:

 

Following Bridgewater Canal’s update of its approach to enforcement for Canal & River Trust licence holders (see below), we wanted to confirm that we will forward details of any licence holders wishing to use the Bridgewater Canal as part of passage to a festival this summer. Please contact us at enquiries.manchesterpennine@canalrivertrust.org.uk; or enquiries.northwest@canalrivertrust.org.uk, and provide your boat details (index number, name, and your name, and the festival that you are travelling to/from, and dates of travel), and we will pass these on.

 

 

 

So people attending rallies, sorry festivals, get special treatment..... where as day to day users get hit by a fee - basically forcing anyone from the NW who wants to use the rest of the network to pay a fee if they don't go via Skipton.

[David Mack]

 

So people attending rallies, sorry festivals, get special treatment..... where as day to day users get hit by a fee - basically forcing anyone from the NW who wants to use the rest of the network to pay a fee if they don't go via Skipton.

I think it only applies to boats already booked into festivals, as a transition to the new arrangements. I think boats visiting future festivals will get the 7 days only.

 

Do the hire companies have different arrangements? The local companies must get boats doing the Cheshire Ring on an almost weekly basis.

[magictime]

Do the hire companies have different arrangements? The local companies must get boats doing the Cheshire Ring on an almost weekly basis.

 

I thought that, but I suppose it's only boats based on the Bridgewater that'd make two separate trips on the Bridgewater while doing the Ring - and they must have Bridgewater licences anyway.

[StephenA]

 

I thought that, but I suppose it's only boats based on the Bridgewater that'd make two separate trips on the Bridgewater while doing the Ring - and they must have Bridgewater licences anyway.

 

But boats from Middlewich would do it more than once in 28 days - I don't think Peel are considering different crews.....

[BEngo]

And what are IWA AWCC, NABO and the RYA doing whilst all this goes on?

N

[b0atman]

And what are IWA AWCC, NABO and the RYA doing whilst all this goes on?

N

I believe that IWA where involved with CRT in some discussions .Hopefully the end result is not what looks like this pre booked exemptions .What is needed is permission to transit through with no stops .

Midland Chandlers at Preston Brook is that Peel water ?

[David Mack]

And what are IWA AWCC, NABO and the RYA doing whilst all this goes on?

N

 

https://www.waterways.org.uk/news/view?id=270

[ditchcrawler]

And what are IWA AWCC, NABO and the RYA doing whilst all this goes on?

N

Ask your Branch Chairman what they are doing about it and tell them your feelings about it.

[magictime]

 

But boats from Middlewich would do it more than once in 28 days - I don't think Peel are considering different crews.....

 

Ah - good point. Maybe hire prices in the area will have to rise then.

[Cheshire cat]

I believe Claymore cruisers are double licenced anyway. I'm not sure about the rest but it seems likely that if you plan to do the cheshire ring there will need to be a surcharge.

[Horace42]

Do the hire companies have different arrangements? The local companies must get boats doing the Cheshire Ring on an almost weekly basis.

We did the Cheshire Ring up from Polesworth in 1992 (one and only time) and 4-Counties Ring (many times). We got 'caught in Manchester by having to pay £26 to go through half a dozen Rochdale locks onto the Bridgewater..

The top lock gates (under a multi-storey building - dim and shadowy figures lurking in the gloom) ) were chained and padlocked shut. We paid the fee in a nearby office and they undid the chain and let us through. At the time we had absolutely no prior knowledge of having to pay a fee.

Inquiries made afterwards we were told boat hirers paid when booking the boat. I guess the hire companies paid 'Rochdale'.

[AndrewIC]

Midland Chandlers at Preston Brook is that Peel water ?

Yes.

I believe Claymore cruisers are double licenced anyway.

They are. I passed a couple this weekend and had look specifically!

[Paul C]

I believe Claymore cruisers are double licenced anyway. I'm not sure about the rest but it seems likely that if you plan to do the cheshire ring there will need to be a surcharge.

 

Claymoore Navigation have always been dual-licensed, due to the time spent on the Bridgewater and CRT waters never fitting within the reciprocal agreement. But other hire firms not actually based on the Bridgewater canal, were able to fit within the previous reciprocal agreement. Now that's been changed, its unlikely they'll be able to fit in (but might do sometimes, depending on the route chosen by the hirer). Pragmatically these might be the options:

 

1. The hire firms put a surcharge on any routes to the Bridgewater and use the money to pay for a number of short term licences through the year.

2. The hire firms don't put a surcharge on but just increase hire cost all round, or absorb the extra cost of the extra short term licences

3. The hire firms don't get involved, instead leave extra licence if needed to the hirers themselves (as is done with hire firms on CRT waters but near the Avon, for example). Hirers might choose to avoid the Bridgewater, visit it but pay the extra licence; or visit it but try avoid paying (after all there are no physical barriers and they will be mooring probably only one or two nights, and on the move the remaining time)

4. They are somehow able to negotiate a long-term deal - something I believe DeanS tried to do personally, and failed - because he never had a mooring on the Bridgewater itself, they would never give him a Bridgewater licence.

[mayalld]

 

Claymoore Navigation have always been dual-licensed, due to the time spent on the Bridgewater and CRT waters never fitting within the reciprocal agreement. But other hire firms not actually based on the Bridgewater canal, were able to fit within the previous reciprocal agreement. Now that's been changed, its unlikely they'll be able to fit in (but might do sometimes, depending on the route chosen by the hirer). Pragmatically these might be the options:

 

1. The hire firms put a surcharge on any routes to the Bridgewater and use the money to pay for a number of short term licences through the year.

2. The hire firms don't put a surcharge on but just increase hire cost all round, or absorb the extra cost of the extra short term licences

3. The hire firms don't get involved, instead leave extra licence if needed to the hirers themselves (as is done with hire firms on CRT waters but near the Avon, for example). Hirers might choose to avoid the Bridgewater, visit it but pay the extra licence; or visit it but try avoid paying (after all there are no physical barriers and they will be mooring probably only one or two nights, and on the move the remaining time)

4. They are somehow able to negotiate a long-term deal - something I believe DeanS tried to do personally, and failed - because he never had a mooring on the Bridgewater itself, they would never give him a Bridgewater licence.

 

The question is probably "how much would Peel charge for an annual licence for a hire boat"

 

Quite apart from the reciprocal agreement, there is a concessionary licence agreement. Not sure what the charges are for a concessionary Bridgewater Licence, but I would guess that it is of a similar magnitude to the concession on CRT licences.

 

I have figures for the Bridgewater Licence for 2016 and the CRT concessionary licence for 2015.

 

Looking at our boat (58');

 

Bridgewater Licence: £528.48

CRT Concessionary licence: £257.00

Total: £785.48

 

That is actually less than the CRT Licence, and it appears that the Concession is broadly speaking based on the 3 month licence fee.

 

One assumes that Peel offer a similar concession.

[JohnEW2912]

 

The question is probably "how much would Peel charge for an annual licence for a hire boat"

 

 

 

 

 

Presumably it's whatever Claymoore are paying now?

Edited June 22, 2016 by John Wareing