New warning signs at Knowle

[Tom and Bex]

I noticed yesterday these new warning signs have appeared on the bottom gate balance beams at Knowle locks. Are these signs unique to Knowle or are they going to appear on all locks from now on to compliment the faded and broken cill warning signs at the top?

 

Tom

[nicknorman]

Indicative of all that is wrong with our crumbling and fading society. The end is definitely nigh.

 

Just not quite sure which end.

[Guest]

It does seem bonkers though, and a debatable use of licence payers money??

[nicknorman]

It does seem bonkers though, and a debatable use of licence payers money??

The question is, is it likely to have any impact whatsoever on the probability of someone falling in. I'd say no. So it is only there as a defence mechanism against CRT being sued by someone who didn't realise that if you stand near an edge with a steep drop, there is a danger of falling.

 

There is a lot of inconsistency here, surely by fitting that sign they are increasing the risk of being sued for a fall at another site with a drop but no sign.

[Guest]

 

There is a lot of inconsistency here, surely by fitting that sign they are increasing the risk of being sued for a fall at another site with a drop but no sign.

 

Exactly this I would say.

 

You either fix one to each and every balance beam on the system or some muppet will fall in at a lock which doesn't have such a sign and cry 'no body warned me I could fall in here but they did at the lock I was at yesterday'.

 

That is unless there is some very peculiar and particular risk at Knowle that I am not aware of. I am not familiar with the flight but can't think of any risk other than 'it's a long way down and there is no safety fence' - this being a feature of just about every lock on the system.

 

Weird.

[GUMPY]

ignore that thought it was the ground not the beam , small picture on dog

Edited February 12, 2016 by Loddon

[Martin Megson]

CRT still have a long way to go to catch up with the EA:

 

[alan_fincher]

 

Exactly this I would say.

 

You either fix one to each and every balance beam on the system or some muppet will fall in at a lock which doesn't have such a sign and cry 'no body warned me I could fall in here but they did at the lock I was at yesterday'.

 

That is unless there is some very peculiar and particular risk at Knowle that I am not aware of. I am not familiar with the flight but can't think of any risk other than 'it's a long way down and there is no safety fence' - this being a feature of just about every lock on the system.

 

Weird.

I'm not defending the signs, but I hink it is fair to say that many of the new wide locks that were introduced on the GU Birmingham Main Line during the 1930s modernisation have some drops on to hard ground that are very much worse than at other points on the system.

 

The bottom gates tend to be on high plinths that have at points a fall to the surrounding ground nearly as far as to the lower water level. If you are pushing on the end of the gate, and walking around the quadrant, there can be a sheer drop beside you.

 

Knowle locks are each a foot or two deeper than the norm, (because 5 wide locks replaced 6 narrow ones), and are probably the most dangerous on the GU Birmingham line in this respect.

 

Quite a few such locks feature quite narrow stone or concrete steps from the high level to the low, that have a drop on each side and no handrails, and I have thought it inconsistent that BW/CRT puts up hand rails on lesser hazards elsewhere, but have left many of those unmodified. (I can't remember if this applies atKnowle, and even if it did, signs on balance beams would not really warn of thaty particular danger).

 

In general though, I agree that unless a sign is erected at every such hazard, they risk ambulance chasers when an incident occurs anywhere that has no sign.

[cuthound]

Surely by writing the warning in such a small font, they have increased the risk of a shortsighted person approaching the sign to read what it says and thus exposing himslf to the danger of falling?

[john6767]

As Alan has said a lot of these locks have very large drops off the back or end of the lock on to a hard surface, so in reality they is more potential for accidents than many more traditional lock designs. There is danger for someone closing a lock gate falling off the back of the lock if they are pulling the beam and walking backwards. Also if you push the beam to shut the gate you either climb over the beam or hold the handle a "swing" round the end of the beam to get to the other side to go down the stairs to get to the lower level. So the sign in the location that it is seems quite sensible to me.

 

As an aside, the beams could do with a lick of paint!

[BlueStringPudding]

Perhaps they can also spend our license fees on signs that say "Danger of getting wet", "Danger of gravity" and "Danger of being nominated for a Darwin award"

[Hawkmoth]

As Alan has said a lot of these locks have very large drops off the back or end of the lock on to a hard surface, so in reality they is more potential for accidents than many more traditional lock designs. There is danger for someone closing a lock gate falling off the back of the lock if they are pulling the beam and walking backwards. Also if you push the beam to shut the gate you either climb over the beam or hold the handle a "swing" round the end of the beam to get to the other side to go down the stairs to get to the lower level. So the sign in the location that it is seems quite sensible to me.

 

As an aside, the beams could do with a lick of paint!

And some idiot will now paint it, over the sign.

Bob

[Alan de Enfield]

Where is Delta9 when you need him.

 

Maybe he would be interested in starting an investigation as to the legality of C&RT using licence money to pay for such signs.

[Hawkmoth]

^^^^^ OOH Alan, you are a one!

[OldGoat]

Poor b*****s (CaRT) can't win, can they - No notice and they get sued - but more expensively, big fine from the Gov't, if they don't stick up the notice.

My Management won't go up Knowle again - they're heavy gates and gear, but last time I recall that the bottom gate balance beams overhang the edge of the lock and are very close to the top of the steps - so it's difficult to get a good purchase.

 

For regular users you (should be) aware of the tricks of that flight - but there are strange folks - hirers (shock horror!) who pass that way but once and need to be saved.....

[furnessvale]

I noticed yesterday these new warning signs have appeared on the bottom gate balance beams at Knowle locks. Are these signs unique to Knowle or are they going to appear on all locks from now on to compliment the faded and broken cill warning signs at the top?

 

Tom

Quite simply, it is this year's H & S officer's project to justify his existence.

 

The day he goes back to CRT and says "I have sorted out the system and there is now no justifiable extra work I can commission", is the day he gets sacked.

 

George ex nb Alton retired

[Delta9]

Where is Delta9 when you need him.

 

Maybe he would be interested in starting an investigation as to the legality of C&RT using licence money to pay for such signs.

I doubt it is illegal for them to waste licence money on pointless signs, but when people complain that marina moorers not requiring licences that they have no use for would deprive CRT of necessary funds needed for the upkeep of the waterways, they should perhaps focus more on encouraging CRT to spend the funds they currently have on actually maintaining the waterways instead of pointless crap like this.

[Rob-M]

I doubt it is illegal for them to waste licence money on pointless signs, but when people complain that marina moorers not requiring licences that they have no use for would deprive CRT of necessary funds needed for the upkeep of the waterways, they should perhaps focus more on encouraging CRT to spend the funds they currently have on actually maintaining the waterways instead of pointless crap like this.

But if a few quid on a sign prevents thousands of pounds in claims then surely it is money well spent

[Tom and Bex]

In fairness I took the signs to be warning of the drop by the balance beams but the steps do all have handrails unlike many other locks around the system. The drop may be higher at Knowle but surely the risk of falling and sustaining injury is the same at very many lower gate balance beams around the country. The beams do not overhang but in common to most locks do come close to the edge - that's where you have to open your eyes and look (at the drop not the signs!)

[Delta9]

But if a few quid on a sign prevents thousands of pounds in claims then surely it is money well spent

Unless they put these signs on every hazard, this will be encouraging claims not preventing them.

[adam1uk]

I'm not defending the signs, but I hink it is fair to say that many of the new wide locks that were introduced on the GU Birmingham Main Line during the 1930s modernisation have some drops on to hard ground that are very much worse than at other points on the system.

 

The bottom gates tend to be on high plinths that have at points a fall to the surrounding ground nearly as far as to the lower water level. If you are pushing on the end of the gate, and walking around the quadrant, there can be a sheer drop beside you.

 

Knowle locks are each a foot or two deeper than the norm, (because 5 wide locks replaced 6 narrow ones), and are probably the most dangerous on the GU Birmingham line in this respect.

 

Quite a few such locks feature quite narrow stone or concrete steps from the high level to the low, that have a drop on each side and no handrails, and I have thought it inconsistent that BW/CRT puts up hand rails on lesser hazards elsewhere, but have left many of those unmodified. (I can't remember if this applies atKnowle, and even if it did, signs on balance beams would not really warn of thaty particular danger).

In general though, I agree that unless a sign is erected at every such hazard, they risk ambulance chasers when an incident occurs anywhere that has no sign.

I think Alan has probably hit the nail on the head. It's not a question of falling in, it's a question of falling off the quadrant -- particularly as lots of the modernised GU locks do have big drops, and often the balance beams stick out beyond the quadrant.

 

I did actually see someone fall off one of the locks at Braunston, where the drop isn't actually that far. They closed the gate, pushing it with their back, then just absent mindedly stepped to the side straight off the edge. It's easily done if you're inexperienced or not thinking.

[furnessvale]

I think Alan has probably hit the nail on the head. It's not a question of falling in, it's a question of falling off the quadrant -- particularly as lots of the modernised GU locks do have big drops, and often the balance beams stick out beyond the quadrant.

 

I did actually see someone fall off one of the locks at Braunston, where the drop isn't actually that far. They closed the gate, pushing it with their back, then just absent mindedly stepped to the side straight off the edge. It's easily done if you're inexperienced or not thinking.

There are many places where that is the case.

 

Better get those signs up everywhere ASAP before the claims start coming in now the precedent has been set!

 

George ex nb Alton retired

[valrene9600]

CRT still have a long way to go to catch up with the EA:

 

Warning.jpg

Sign of the namby pamby world we now live in. So glad my age means I remember when people took responsibility for themselves and didn't need a sign to tell them the obvious.

Not all signs are stupid. The overhead power cable signs on towpaths are good as the lines can easily be missed by anglets intent on settling into a good spot. Danger of falling is pretty useless as it's so obvious.

As for fearing being sued the lock has been there 200 years so just look and then take care. Will they start putting signs up at every set of steps, hills, mountains. Why don't buses have signs as you get on. I need to know I might slip as I step on.

[MHS]

I wish I had heeded this warning sign years ago. I'm worried there is no help available for me now:

 

 

 

 

[Arthur Marshall]

This is variation on those ones they pit up few years ago with the boat balancing on the cill. I reckon they had a lot of spare yellow platic left over.. Anyway, the guy falling over isn't wearing a lifejacket...