Bl##dy racing canoes'

[billS]

We had an experience last year during one of the Kennet races, I think from Newbury to Aldermaston and back - which is always an interesting one, because you get racing kayaks coming in both directions. We stayed moored until the majority of the the race was over.

 

We were travelling along the canal section west of Frouds bridge, keeping close to the right hand bank to allow as much overtaking room as possible,when we were overtaken by some of the back markers. Most kayaks passed us without incident on the left hand sided. One however, when just ahead of our stern veered to the left, into the trees and overturned.

 

We got a mouthful of abuse, to which I responded that every other kayak had managed to pass us safely whilst compensating for whatever forces the moving boat was placing on their kayaks, and that they shouldn't blame me for their own incompetence. I think that went down well...

[WJM]

We had an experience last year during one of the Kennet races, I think from Newbury to Aldermaston and back - which is always an interesting one, because you get racing kayaks coming in both directions. We stayed moored until the majority of the the race was over.

 

We were travelling along the canal section west of Frouds bridge, keeping close to the right hand bank to allow as much overtaking room as possible,when we were overtaken by some of the back markers. Most kayaks passed us without incident on the left hand sided. One however, when just ahead of our stern veered to the left, into the trees and overturned.

 

We got a mouthful of abuse, to which I responded that every other kayak had managed to pass us safely whilst compensating for whatever forces the moving boat was placing on their kayaks, and that they shouldn't blame me for their own incompetence. I think that went down well...

Absolutely the right attitude and response on your part. The paddler should have taken it on the chin and remained silent.

 

It is probably worth mentioning though that if you have swimmer anywhere near the stern of your boat it is important to consider dropping into neutral - you don't want to make a meat milkshake with your propellor!

Edited January 17, 2014 by WJM

[FadeToScarlet]

The one thing a rowing boat cant do is move sideways, the oars don't have leverage in that direction.

Actually, it is possible, in eights, fours, and quadruple sculls, and theoretically possible in a double scull.

 

Assuming you can't use wind or stream to ferry glide sideways, you can use a technique called "scratching"- you have one of the rowers on the side opposite where you want to go slide right forwards and pass their blade handle to the person in front of them, who can then hold it parallel with the boat and, by pulling towards them, move the boat sideways.

 

It's slow and ungainly, but it is possible.

 

And stopping a fast moving boat with outrigged oars is never easy, relative to the ease of a paddle propelled boat. Oarsmen know that they risk being lifted painfully out of their seats.

I'd dispute that, and argue that it's just as easy. Yes, it is possible to "catch a crab" and be lifted out of the seat, but it's very rare when doing an emergency stop and "holding it up". I've seen it happen fewer than 5 times in nearly 8 years of rowing, coxing, and coaching. Don't forget that, in racing shells, the feet are strapped in, too, which really helps control the rowing shell.

 

And then there is the effective width, the hull may be as slender as a kayak but those oars have nowhere to hide!

Yes, I'll grant that a rowing shell requires far more width than a kayak, but it is possible to bring the blades in on one side to reduce the width required- for example, when in narrow parts of the river, I can pause the rowers and have them tilt the boat to one side to lift the blades over an obstruction, or pull the blades in quickly reducing the width by a third in a couple of seconds. And it's possible, if obstructions are low and the crew know what they're doing, to pause with the blades out horizontally and go through gaps, with the blades passing over the obstruction- one thing people remember me for is taking an eight through a gap six feet wide at flat out race pace, by warning the crew, having them pause and sit the boat level, and gliding through the gap before rowing on nonchalantly, to the great discomfiture of the many people shouting warnings and cautions. I must admit I'm a bit more sensible now!

[Loafer]

 

Every day I learn something new is a good day!

 

(or should I argue it was actually 3 elipses next to each other)

It's the mis-spelling of 'apostrophe' that gets me!

[Speedwheel]

If it is such a certainty then why hasn't it happened yet?

 

It has.

[koukouvagia]

No one has mentioned those catamarans constructed from a line of tin cans which the four man/woman crew sit on, with corresponding line of tins acting as an outrigger. They're sort of wide beam canoes!

There's a pub team that belts along the Tring summit. I'm always amused when they come streaking up behind, decide to overtake me, dash for the bridge hole but then discover that the suction of a 27 ton narrow boat means that they simply can't get past. After watching them struggle for a while, I relent and take the engine out of gear so they can resume their frenetic course.

Edited January 20, 2014 by koukouvagia

[Friendly kayaker]

On 15/01/2014 at 23:22, furnessvale said:

I for one am not complaining just stating a fact. A canoe passing a moored narrowboat at speed, can cause a disturbance far greater than its apparent ability to do so.

 

For my sins I once worked at Fleetwood Docks. A two seater speedboat going fast down the buoyed channel could take the water from beneath the moored B&I Ro-Ro ferry which weighed perhaps 8000 tonnes. The ferry would bottom which meant an expensive visit to dry dock to check for damage.

 

Thus there was a byelaw restricting speed in the channel. Speedboat owners would complain about police harassment when reported for the offence.

 

George ex nb Alton retired

I use a racing kayak regularly on canals and hadn't thought about potentially making a moored canal boat move when I pass it. I'll try to keep my distance. Thanks for making me aware. I'm here to learn to be a better kayak user of canals. 

[Friendly kayaker]

On 17/01/2014 at 17:03, WJM said:

Absolutely the right attitude and response on your part. The paddler should have taken it on the chin and remained silent.

 

It is probably worth mentioning though that if you have swimmer anywhere near the stern of your boat it is important to consider dropping into neutral - you don't want to make a meat milkshake with your propellor!

Appalling behaviour by the kayaker. It's their own fault for trying to paddle a kayak with too low a wobble factor. The wave behind a canal boat can be a bit tricky to handle. If I ever fall in I'll be sure to keep clear of any propellors! A good reminder. 

[Sea Dog]

2 hours ago, Friendly kayaker said:

I'm here to learn to be a better kayak user of canals. 

These posts were all about what was happening in 2014 - I think you'll find everything's fine nowadays - before canoes it was fishermen and we've moved on to cyclists now. 

 

Just joshin' - welcome to the forum. It's mostly narrowboat centric, but I hope you find some helpful stuff. 

 

[Hudds Lad]

24 minutes ago, Sea Dog said:

and we've moved on to cyclists now. 

You're behind the curve, it's e-bikes & e-scooters nowadays  

[Sea Dog]

1 hour ago, Hudds Lad said:

You're behind the curve, it's e-bikes & e-scooters nowadays  

I contemplated adding those, but if I'd included everything folk get all steamed up about I'd still be typing! 

[mrsmelly]

3 hours ago, Hudds Lad said:

You're behind the curve, it's e-bikes & e-scooters nowadays  

I saw today a bloke about sixty on a bloody e scooter, on the footpath ffs 😩

[Sea Dog]

6 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

I saw today a bloke about sixty on a bloody e scooter, on the footpath ffs 😩

My mooring neighbour is in his 70s and has one, intended to help him get between locks.  Of course, CRT have now banned these from the towpath so that's put an end to his idea whilst any scrote without a boat will continue unaffected by something CRT can't possibly enforce on anyone but boaters. Fast E- bikes, e-scooters, electric trail bikes, electric unicycles, you name it - we have to put up with anyone who chooses to ride them illegally on towpaths but are the only ones who could be identified if we had one ourselves.

[mrsmelly]

11 minutes ago, Sea Dog said:

My mooring neighbour is in his 70s and has one, intended to help him get between locks.  Of course, CRT have now banned these from the towpath so that's put an end to his idea whilst any scrote without a boat will continue unaffected by something CRT can't possibly enforce on anyone but boaters. Fast E- bikes, e-scooters, electric trail bikes, electric unicycles, you name it - we have to put up with anyone who chooses to ride them illegally on towpaths but are the only ones who could be identified if we had one ourselves.

This was on a footpath in Carmarthen its the first one I have seen in this area. What hope have we got of kids not breaking the law when a bloke his age blatantly does it  

[Sea Dog]

17 hours ago, mrsmelly said:

This was on a footpath in Carmarthen its the first one I have seen in this area. What hope have we got of kids not breaking the law when a bloke his age blatantly does it  

Well yes, you might have a point there. However, despite my setting a good example by not having one myself, I still see both kids and adults on them in every urban area around the BCN. Of course, it's not exactly discouraging their use when the law says it's perfectly legal to sell them (only to folk intending to use them on private land obviously)! 

[Ewan123]

On 12/09/2023 at 13:40, Friendly kayaker said:

I use a racing kayak regularly on canals and hadn't thought about potentially making a moored canal boat move when I pass it. I'll try to keep my distance. Thanks for making me aware. I'm here to learn to be a better kayak user of canals. 

I think it's more the wake which causes the moored boat to wobble about, your distance from it probably won't make much difference unless on a particularly wide body of water.

 

Also just don't worry too much. I live on a boat that sits in water - I expect it to wobble

[matty40s]

On 12/09/2023 at 20:05, mrsmelly said:

I saw today a bloke about sixty on a bloody e scooter, on the footpath ffs 😩

https://www.itv.com/news/anglia/2023-10-14/e-bike-rider-63-fights-for-life-after-towpath-fall

[mrsmelly]

32 minutes ago, matty40s said:

https://www.itv.com/news/anglia/2023-10-14/e-bike-rider-63-fights-for-life-after-towpath-fall

Sad but hardly suprising. Sticking a motor on what are basicaly kids toys is asking for trouble. Worlds gone mad. Before long a case will be of some eejut on the towpath using one of those ridiculous things running into someone and killing them. 

[Machpoint005]

21 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

Sad but hardly suprising. Sticking a motor on what are basicaly kids toys is asking for trouble. Worlds gone mad. Before long a case will be of some eejut on the towpath using one of those ridiculous things running into someone and killing them. 

 

I thought e scooters could only be used on private land? E bikes are a different matter.

 

 

[mrsmelly]

6 minutes ago, Machpoint005 said:

 

I thought e scooters could only be used on private land? E bikes are a different matter.

 

 

Bonkers forms of transport any of them. People will be trying to sell electric cars at this rate before long, doubt if many people would be that gulible though. As for legality, lol, how many times have you seen numpties on motorbikes on the towpath, its a very regular event. Luckily at my last mooring before I jacked in the towpath was so rutted and lumpy we rarely if ever saw a poxy vehicle of any kind. Things will get steadily worse if towpath " improvements !!" such as on lengths of the K and A for example continue 

[Tony Brooks]

32 minutes ago, Machpoint005 said:

 

I thought e scooters could only be used on private land? E bikes are a different matter.

 

 

 

I understand HIRED E Scooters can use the public roads, but that does not stop all and sundry private owners riding them on roads and footpaths, even right in front of police officers. Yet another unenforceable law.

Edited October 14, 2023 by Tony Brooks

[Sea Dog]

4 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

Yet another unenforceable law.

Exactly. Allowing sales of things which are illegal to use seems bonkers, but the genie ain't going back in the bottle. Ironically, the only folk who won't be able to ride a scooter on the towpath are now boaters who, because they are on a boat, are both the only folk readily identifiable and the only ones who can't say 'up yours' and speed off.

[ditchcrawler]

25 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

I understand HIRED E Scooters can use the public roads, but that does not stop all and sundry private owners riding them on roads and footpaths, even right in front of police officers. Yet another unenforceable law.

The Ukrainians are using these quite successfully but I think they may be different to the ones the police are using

 Avon and Somerset Police use drones in illegal e-scooter sting - BBC News 

[MtB]

2 hours ago, mrsmelly said:

Sad but hardly suprising. Sticking a motor on what are basicaly kids toys is asking for trouble. Worlds gone mad. Before long a case will be of some eejut on the towpath using one of those ridiculous things running into someone and killing them. 

 

I was overtaken by an e-bike the other day and I followed it out of the village onto a long stright country lane. The lad had clearly modified it as he wasn't pedalling at all and I clocked him doing a shade under 50mph as I followed in my van. 

[Machpoint005]

E bikes can legally be used, but there are insurance requirements. Just as there are for off-road bikes with petrol engines. That seems to be another unenforceable law.