Bl##dy racing canoes'

[saxplayer]

Hi David

No Problem. my other half is getting a little exacerbated with me ....she just got used to the bow rope and then stood there and said what the @@@k when i asked her to take the painter !!!!!!

Reminds me of a ditty from years ago . A motor boat at anchor enjoying quiet afternoon when a yachtsman came up and asked what water they had?

She replied, "not much but we can spare some for a cup of Tea!"

shaun

[MtB]

Hi David

No Problem. my other half is getting a little exacerbated with me ....she just got used to the bow rope and then stood there and said what the @@@k when i asked her to take the painter !!!!!!

Reminds me of a ditty from years ago . A motor boat at anchor enjoying quiet afternoon when a yachtsman came up and asked what water they had?

She replied, "not much but we can spare some for a cup of Tea!"

shaun

 

Bow LINE....

 

 

MtB

[saxplayer]

 

Bow LINE....

 

 

MtB

Stand corrected MIke. And that reminds me of an other ditty from my navy days

 

Whilst hands on deck were heaving in a mooring hawser the Petty officer on deck was shouting encouragement, "pull lads pull".

From the bridge came a cry from the officer on watch, "Petty officer on deck use naval terminology if you please".

Petty officer on deck : " Pull my hearties Pull "

shaun

[Richard T]

If it is such a certainty then why hasn't it happened yet? Canoes have been racing on british canals for over fifty years and we still haven't had a squashed canoe!

There speaks a man who should know- he happens to have been a top class canoeist for many years but doesn't blow his own trumpet. This includes very high finishes in the Devizes to Westminster so he is used to racing on canals and rivers.

[nebulae]

As for canoes,what about rowing boats.Some knowledge of the rules of the road was not shared with the cox of more than one boat I nearly mowed down. Rowing clubs should make sure that when they are sharing water with other craft,members have at least a rudimentary knowlege of the rules.

[Alan Saunders]

You lot will be whinging that the wind is blowing the boat about next

I gave Phyllis a greeny for that post. I see it has three now - let's make it ten or more.

 

She and I did not agree about deep draughted vessels passing moored boats in a narrow channel causing the moored boats to surge back and forth.

Complaining that your boat rolls/rocks and even pitches a little when a canoe passes is ridiculous. That is what boats do - my 6 ton boat is a joy, my 25 ton NB is boring.

 

I am not a canoe paddler and no longer a dinghy sailor and I admit that their apparent disregard for their own safety can be disconcerting. Most canoes with fit, competant paddlers can easily get out of your way - not sure about the sailing dinghys but if they shout 'WATER!' you had best give way; maybe they think you can come about as quickly as they can and 'steam gives way to sail'.

 

Alan

[Neil2]

 

Sorry saxplayer it has nothing to do with seamanship. Port and starbpard have never been used on canals, The working boatmen used "inside" and "outside" with inside referring to the side the horse was on,so it changed depending on the relative positions of the boat and towpath. More recently left and right has been accepted as a more universal definition.

As I understand it the terms inside and outside were used to describe the canal sides, but that has nothing to do with the boat.

 

Eg an inside turn could be a turn to either port or starboard depending on where the towpath is.

 

How many canal boaters use the terms left and right to describe their boat - do they also refer to the "left bow" or the "right quarter" or do they have different terms for them as well? I'm intrigued.

[koukouvagia]

 

It's ellipses with the wrong number of dots that bother me...

 

 

MtB

It's the wrong spelling of apostrophe that worries me .

[furnessvale]

 

 

 

Complaining that your boat rolls/rocks and even pitches a little when a canoe passes is ridiculous.

I for one am not complaining just stating a fact. A canoe passing a moored narrowboat at speed, can cause a disturbance far greater than its apparent ability to do so.

 

For my sins I once worked at Fleetwood Docks. A two seater speedboat going fast down the buoyed channel could take the water from beneath the moored B&I Ro-Ro ferry which weighed perhaps 8000 tonnes. The ferry would bottom which meant an expensive visit to dry dock to check for damage.

 

Thus there was a byelaw restricting speed in the channel. Speedboat owners would complain about police harassment when reported for the offence.

 

George ex nb Alton retired

[PhilR]

 

Sorry saxplayer it has nothing to do with seamanship. Port and starbpard have never been used on canals, The working boatmen used "inside" and "outside" with inside referring to the side the horse was on,so it changed depending on the relative positions of the boat and towpath. More recently left and right has been accepted as a more universal definition.

 

I disagree with your last sentence.

[MtB]

It's the wrong spelling of apostrophe that worries me .

 

Bugger. I can't BELIEVE I failed to notice that!

 

Too busy trying to be klever with the ellipses I expect...

 

 

MtB

[WJM]

......their apparent disregard for their own safety can be disconcerting. .......

 

Alan

 

This is the crux of the of the whole issue. I speak from both sides. A narrowboat is heavy and ponderous. It takes time and skill to position one and the achievable accuracy is fairly low. A racing canoe or kayak on the other hand is extremely agile and positioning one with centimetre accuracy is routine.

 

When I drive a narrowboat through packs of canoes I just fix a predictable course, maintain a comfortable speed and I make no effort to manoeuvre. I do this with the full and certain knowledge that the paddlers will move when they need to - and every time they do! I don't believe any narrowboat has ever managed to hit a racing canoe, ever!

 

So to all you narrow-boaters, relax! Self-reliance and self-preservation is a popular mindset among people who choose to perch on a knife-edge shaped piece of carbon-kevlar. Let Darwin do his work, all will be well!

[billS]

It's the wrong spelling of apostrophe that worries me .

 

...goes to stand in corner...

[furnessvale]

 

This is the crux of the of the whole issue. I speak from both sides. A narrowboat is heavy and ponderous. It takes time and skill to position one and the achievable accuracy is fairly low. A racing canoe or kayak on the other hand is extremely agile and positioning one with centimetre accuracy is routine.

 

When I drive a narrowboat through packs of canoes I just fix a predictable course, maintain a comfortable speed and I make no effort to manoeuvre. I do this with the full and certain knowledge that the paddlers will move when they need to - and every time they do! I don't believe any narrowboat has ever managed to hit a racing canoe, ever!

 

So to all you narrow-boaters, relax! Self-reliance and self-preservation is a popular mindset among people who choose to perch on a knife-edge shaped piece of carbon-kevlar. Let Darwin do his work, all will be well!

If I ever hit a canoe, and the obligatory sue the ass off me takes place, can I quote you in my defence please? :-)

 

George ex nb Alton retired

[Proper Job]

 

This is the crux of the of the whole issue. I speak from both sides. A narrowboat is heavy and ponderous. It takes time and skill to position one and the achievable accuracy is fairly low. A racing canoe or kayak on the other hand is extremely agile and positioning one with centimetre accuracy is routine.

 

When I drive a narrowboat through packs of canoes I just fix a predictable course, maintain a comfortable speed and I make no effort to manoeuvre. I do this with the full and certain knowledge that the paddlers will move when they need to - and every time they do! I don't believe any narrowboat has ever managed to hit a racing canoe, ever!

 

So to all you narrow-boaters, relax! Self-reliance and self-preservation is a popular mindset among people who choose to perch on a knife-edge shaped piece of carbon-kevlar. Let Darwin do his work, all will be well!

 

Don't try that stance on a sunny Sunday going down through the punts/skiffs/eights/row boats etc on the Thames at Oxford

 

It'll end in tears

[WJM]

 

Don't try that stance on a sunny Sunday going down through the punts/skiffs/eights/row boats etc on the Thames at Oxford

 

It'll end in tears

Punts, Skiffs and eights are totally different from racing canoes. They have much less manoeuvrability than a canoe or kayak. The main reason is mechanical, an oar propelled boat can only propel itself forward, while a paddle propelled boat can be drawn powerfully sideways with just a twist of the paddle blade. A canoeist has a whole swathe of manoeuvring strokes, including the ability to stop very quickly, easily inside its own length. Oared and polled boats have none of these abilities.

 

And in terms of fitting through small gaps, the widest point on most racing canoes is the paddler's hips. So when you see a paddler darting through a frighteningly small two metre gap, remember, he has four or five times more room than he needs. It might look scary to you but don't worry. It is far more dangerous riding a bike!

[WJM]

Is probably worth pointing out that organisers of canoe races and canoe events are often offered full navigation closure but they always decline. I cannot ever recall a navigation closure being implemented to facilitate canoeing - rowing races regularly cause navigation closures. So while you might find a few canoes darting about the place to be a bit disconcerting, be thankful that you have not lost half a day's boating because of them. Most canoe races happen mid-Sunday morning through to mid-Sunday afternoon. You really wouldn't want to loose that boating time!

[Dave_P]

 

This is the crux of the of the whole issue. I speak from both sides. A narrowboat is heavy and ponderous. It takes time and skill to position one and the achievable accuracy is fairly low. A racing canoe or kayak on the other hand is extremely agile and positioning one with centimetre accuracy is routine.

 

When I drive a narrowboat through packs of canoes I just fix a predictable course, maintain a comfortable speed and I make no effort to manoeuvre. I do this with the full and certain knowledge that the paddlers will move when they need to - and every time they do! I don't believe any narrowboat has ever managed to hit a racing canoe, ever!

 

So to all you narrow-boaters, relax! Self-reliance and self-preservation is a popular mindset among people who choose to perch on a knife-edge shaped piece of carbon-kevlar. Let Darwin do his work, all will be well!

I see what you're saying but you fall down on one assumption: that the canoeist is experienced. Taking this blase approach when the canoeist or rower is a novice could end very badly. I remember cruising slowly on the Stratford level of the Avon one sunny weekend and having to weave a very careful course around countless rowers on hired rowing boats. Luckily a couple of friends were on the bow and there were able to alert me to an out-of-control rowing boat turning circles of my starboard bow. They were so low down and plotting such an unexpected course that I had no idea they were down there. The 'rower' had absolutely no idea how to take any evasive action, but I managed to stop sharply with plenty of reverse. I was going slowly. Not all powered boats go so slowly on that stretch. It could have ended badly.

[JV44]

Is probably worth pointing out that organisers of canoe races and canoe events are often offered full navigation closure but they always decline. I cannot ever recall a navigation closure being implemented to facilitate canoeing - rowing races regularly cause navigation closures. So while you might find a few canoes darting about the place to be a bit disconcerting, be thankful that you have not lost half a day's boating because of them. Most canoe races happen mid-Sunday morning through to mid-Sunday afternoon. You really wouldn't want to loose that boating time!

 

What full navigation closure on the Thames?? don`t think I have ever noticed a sculling comp close the river section completely .

2 years ago coming back through Sonning heading upstream we encountered a canoe race held course as you suggest and one of the kayaks bounced off us then another irate lady demanded we stop so she could cut across us to go round the turning bouy despite overtaking us on the bankside...w&^*%^s the lot of them .

No safety boat in sight it was madness.

I kayak the river as well but unlike the idiots that day expect to share it not own it

Edited January 16, 2014 by JV44

[Rufford]

I gave Phyllis a greeny for that post. I see it has three now - let's make it ten or more.

 

She and I did not agree about deep draughted vessels passing moored boats in a narrow channel causing the moored boats to surge back and forth.

Complaining that your boat rolls/rocks and even pitches a little when a canoe passes is ridiculous. That is what boats do - my 6 ton boat is a joy, my 25 ton NB is boring.

 

I am not a canoe paddler and no longer a dinghy sailor and I admit that their apparent disregard for their own safety can be disconcerting. Most canoes with fit, competant paddlers can easily get out of your way - not sure about the sailing dinghys but if they shout 'WATER!' you had best give way; maybe they think you can come about as quickly as they can and 'steam gives way to sail'.

 

Alan

 

 

A little rocking? Ever had 5 or 6 of them pass you while they are going flat out? Its like the north atlantic!

[FadeToScarlet]

Punts, Skiffs and eights are totally different from racing canoes. They have much less manoeuvrability than a canoe or kayak. The main reason is mechanical, an oar propelled boat can only propel itself forward, while a paddle propelled boat can be drawn powerfully sideways with just a twist of the paddle blade. A canoeist has a whole swathe of manoeuvring strokes, including the ability to stop very quickly, easily inside its own length. Oared and polled boats have none of these abilities.

 

And in terms of fitting through small gaps, the widest point on most racing canoes is the paddler's hips. So when you see a paddler darting through a frighteningly small two metre gap, remember, he has four or five times more room than he needs. It might look scary to you but don't worry. It is far more dangerous riding a bike!

If the cox and crew know what they're doing, eights, fours, and other rowing boats can be far more maneuverable than that. Not as much as a K1 kayak, I'll grant, but more so than you'd think- turning within their own length, forwards and turning, sideways, backwards, turn whilst going backwards- quite a lot. Using the wind and stream helps a lot, too.

 

I can't claim centimeter accuracy, either, but I can take an eight at flat out race pace around a corner and just trim any overhanging blades of grass- as long as I can trust the crew not to panic.

 

I can also stop the boat from most speeds within its own length, and only just outside that if flat out.

 

Having said all that, I don't dispute that there are some idiots who row, steer, and coach, who are either too incompetent or wrapped up in their own wprld, and who need to consider other craft more.

[Naughty Cal]

 

 

A little rocking? Ever had 5 or 6 of them pass you while they are going flat out? Its like the north atlantic!

No exaggeration there then!

Is probably worth pointing out that organisers of canoe races and canoe events are often offered full navigation closure but they always decline. I cannot ever recall a navigation closure being implemented to facilitate canoeing - rowing races regularly cause navigation closures. So while you might find a few canoes darting about the place to be a bit disconcerting, be thankful that you have not lost half a day's boating because of them. Most canoe races happen mid-Sunday morning through to mid-Sunday afternoon. You really wouldn't want to loose that boating time!

Not all rowing races close navigation either. We have picked our way through the Lincoln to Boston race a few times now which is interesting.

[ditchcrawler]

If the cox and crew know what they're doing, eights, fours, and other rowing boats can be far more maneuverable than that. Not as much as a K1 kayak, I'll grant, but more so than you'd think- turning within their own length, forwards and turning, sideways, backwards, turn whilst going backwards- quite a lot. Using the wind and stream helps a lot, too.

 

I can't claim centimeter accuracy, either, but I can take an eight at flat out race pace around a corner and just trim any overhanging blades of grass- as long as I can trust the crew not to panic.

 

I can also stop the boat from most speeds within its own length, and only just outside that if flat out.

 

Having said all that, I don't dispute that there are some idiots who row, steer, and coach, who are either too incompetent or wrapped up in their own wprld, and who need to consider other craft more.

I am waiting for Biggles response after his bridge incident

[b0atman]

well put fade to scarlet

[WJM]

 

 

 

What full navigation closure on the Thames?? don`t think I have ever noticed a sculling comp close the river section completely .

2 years ago coming back through Sonning heading upstream we encountered a canoe race held course as you suggest and one of the kayaks bounced off us then another irate lady demanded we stop so she could cut across us to go round the turning bouy despite overtaking us on the bankside...w&^*%^s the lot of them .

No safety boat in sight it was madness.

I kayak the river as well but unlike the idiots that day expect to share it not own it

 

There are regular river closures on both the tideway and the non-tidal EA river for various rowing races. Probably the best know will be familiar to most people, the University Boat Race at Easter - full river closure, and it is not the only one. But never for canoe races.

 

So you rowed through the turning buoy of a race?

I see what you're saying but you fall down on one assumption: that the canoeist is experienced.

You cant sit in a racing kayak unless you are experienced. It takes a year or two to learn to balance one.

 

I can't claim centimeter accuracy, either, but I can take an eight at flat out race pace around a corner and just trim any overhanging blades of grass- as long as I can trust the crew not to panic.

 

I can also stop the boat from most speeds within its own length, and only just outside that if flat out.

 

The one thing a rowing boat cant do is move sideways, the oars don't have leverage in that direction. And stopping a fast moving boat with outrigged oars is never easy, relative to the ease of a paddle propelled boat. Oarsmen know that they risk being lifted painfully out of their seats. And then there is the effective width, the hull may be as slender as a kayak but those oars have nowhere to hide!

Edited January 17, 2014 by WJM