European Union Attacks Red Diesel For Boaters.

[Geoff]

Forgetting the debate on the extra tax, presumably this would mean the end of FAME free fuel

[carlt]

Our previous British government had a tax and spend philosophy. They were voted out of course.

 

Isn't it strange how, if you discount the money made by privatisng everything and selling off social housing, all the "previous" governments over the past 34 years have "taxed and spent" similar amounts?

Edited August 5, 2013 by carlt

[Hawkmoth]

Isn't it strange how, if you discount the money made by privatisng everything and selling off social housing, all the "previous" governments over the past 34 years have "taxed and spent" similar amounts?

Never thought of it like that. If what you say is true though, it wouldn't surprise me.

Bob

[Tuscan]

Isn't it strange how, if you discount the money made by privatisng everything and selling off social housing, all the "previous" governments over the past 34 years have "taxed and spent" similar amounts?

Not to mention the PFI schemes for building the schools and hospitals on tic started by the Tories and embraced enthusiastically by Labour is also coming home to roost.

[Speedwheel]

I've got no objection to using white diesel providing we don't have to pay over inflated duty rates. A price more in keeping with the rest of you EU wouldn't go amiss.

 

Well our price is not exactly a million miles away.

 

http://www.drive-alive.co.uk/fuel_prices_europe.html

[GUMPY]

Forgetting the debate on the extra tax, presumably this would mean the end of FAME free fuel

If you van still guarantee that fuel is fame free then you are in a serious minority.

[woodjam]

Illiterate worded sentence or construction of the argument is surely a typical beaujourais reply.and missing the point.

When the cannals were mainly used and worked by the populas. In other words the working classes blue or white collor workers.

 

The point to me and many on here is why can The eu impose a tax on us.

The farmers get exemptions where as Hauliers do not get the same treatment.Even if they are carrying farm produce to market.

 

When the (illierate or not pettition gets another 90,000.00 signitures it gets time in front of the house of comons. Result Publicity.

 

This will make the elected realise that boaters are a united voice that they need to try and keep on side.

This might even give us better canals or a decent voice on the future of the inland water ways.

 

So may I suggest that its time to bury our differences and unit for a bigger voice in the future of our passion messing around in boats.

Our circum navigation of the inland water ways.

[tillergirl]

 

Well our price is not exactly a million miles away.

 

http://www.drive-alive.co.uk/fuel_prices_europe.html

isnt that list all in Euros? And 22p for each litre on a full tank is a lot of money...........

Edited August 5, 2013 by tillergirl

[adam1uk]

When the (illierate or not pettition gets another 90,000.00 signitures it gets time in front of the house of comons. Result Publicity.

 

Your maths and knowledge are a bit off.

 

When a petition gets 100,000 signatures, it's considered for discussion in the Commons. Time is not guaranteed.

 

So far, this petition has 838 signatures, which means it needs a mere 99,162 signatures by 9 October. That means it needs more than 1500 signatures a day to go to the next stage.

 

Believe be, it ain't going to happen.

[furnessvale]

 

And the farmers comparison doesn't work either. Farmers use red diesel for their business. Not in their road going range rover. Fishing boats are exempt too. As are canal based working boats. It is only the play things that are an exemption in this country.

Quite wrong of course. The ONLY non road based "Plaything" that uses diesel that is being forced to pay white prices is a boat. Every other non road based "plaything" continues to pay red prices. Therefore, boaters HAVE been victimised.

 

George ex nb Alton retired

[Ricco1]

Isn't it strange how, if you discount the money made by privatisng everything and selling off social housing, all the "previous" governments over the past 34 years have "taxed and spent" similar amounts?

 

That's quite surprising, especially when you consider the many new benefits that were created by the previous government, most of which were aimed at the group that holds the key to election victory: families with children. And then the massive increase in the public sector during their tenure. How was this possible without significant additional taxes? Ah yes: 1/ an economy that mostly grew during the tenure 2/ borrowing; lots of; as we know only too well today.

[alan_fincher]

For once I am in total agreement with Dave Mayall, ( )

Although I'm strongly in favour of the continuation of reduced tax on the "non propulsion" component of diesel used in boats, this petition is very counter productive in my view, and I made similar comment to Dave when it first appeared.

 

If the petitioner actually understands the current situation, they have managed to use words that imply the current situation is different from what it actually is, and now seem to have a lot of people believing that!

Anweay, as Adam points out, this petition hasn't a prayer of attracting huge numbers of signatures, and certainly will be ignored by many, as currently worded. It is just a distraction, but people seem to like signing onlne petitions,perhaps because they can feel they have "done their bit" for just a few seconds effort. Unfortunately things don't work like that, and if you really care you need to direct your own well focussed complaints to your MP and MEP - but few will bother to go that far.

[Jerra]

if you really care you need to direct your own well focussed complaints to your MP and MEP - but few will bother to go that far.

If you don't know who you should be writing to this site will tell you.

 

http://www.writetothem.com/

[peterboat]

Isn't it strange how, if you discount the money made by privatisng everything and selling off social housing, all the "previous" governments over the past 34 years have "taxed and spent" similar amounts?

I read in the Daily Mail the other day that over 500,000 council houses had gone to immigrants in the last decade so clearly the previous governments didnt sell enough off. You may not agree but you dont live in Rotherham where english isnt the spoken word. Also just think that would have saved the taxpayer.

 

Peter

[MtB]

I've got no objection to using white diesel providing we don't have to pay over inflated duty rates. A price more in keeping with the rest of you EU wouldn't go amiss.

 

Over inflated? What does that mean?

 

May I infer from your comment you are happy to pay reasonably inflated duty rates then?

 

 

MtB

Edited August 6, 2013 by Mike the Boilerman

[mayalld]

Not really, but I didn't expect it to. Sadly some of us didn't have the benefit of the superior education that you so obviously had. We have to muddle along the best wot we can. Nevertheless, I rather think that the majority of people on this forum knew exactly what the petitioner was aiming for

 

So, I post a short account of why I won't sign, and you sneer at me for calling the petition semi literate without fully explaining my position.

 

Then I respond with a detailed explanation and you sneer at my obviously superior education?

 

 

Truth be told, you don't like what I am saying but lack an argument, so it's easier to play the man.

[woodjam]

Educated lucky you .

When I was twelve I was dragged screaming down ta pits crawling on my knees for six miles. Till I got to the coal face then had to pick at the coal wit my finger nails. Till flat cap was full then crawl back to pit head to deliver my cap full of coal. Paid a groat a week Whilst you were in college.

 

The whole point of pasting the petition was to raise awareness of the position.

 

Yet trying to get a voice for boaters.

So when you have the extra tank fitted for the white diesel and the additional charges and taxes that will be taken from you.

 

May be Next enforced emission for canal boats in line with trucks and cars

Then what.

 

Then maybe you will wish you had signed the illiterate petition.

Edited August 7, 2013 by woodjam

[Timleech]

 

May be Next enforced emission for canal boats in line with trucks and cars

 

There have been emissions rules for new boats for some years now, as part of the RCD, though I believe they are less strict than current rules for road vehicles.

 

Tim

[mayalld]

The whole point of pasting the petition was to raise awareness of the position.

 

Yet trying to get a voice for boaters.

So when you have the extra tank fitted for the white diesel and the additional charges and taxes that will be taken from you.

 

May be Next enforced emission for canal boats in line with trucks and cars

Then what.

 

Then maybe you will wish you had signed the illiterate petition.

 

the petition doesn't raise awareness of the position. It tries to raise awareness of something that isn't the position, and having ranted about one thing to slip in a call for an entirely different thing.

 

If vast numbers of boaters signed this petition, it would send but one message. That message would be;

 

"These boaters haven't actually got a CLUE about anything, we can safely ignore them"

 

This petition is counterproductive.

[Dave_P]

 

the petition doesn't raise awareness of the position. It tries to raise awareness of something that isn't the position, and having ranted about one thing to slip in a call for an entirely different thing.

 

If vast numbers of boaters signed this petition, it would send but one message. That message would be;

 

"These boaters haven't actually got a CLUE about anything, we can safely ignore them"

 

This petition is counterproductive.

I concur Mr Mayall. Your highly educated argument has won me over!!

 

Also, if the petition needs 100,000 signatures to have any influence at all, then it's a non-starter. It's too much of a minority issue. Surely it would be better to lobby your MEP personally?

[Arthur Brown]

Probably the only real thing to do is to fit two fuel tanks and run derv in the propulsion tank and home heating oil in the heating tank.

 

As regs say that you should pay derv rate for propulsion -that tank is fine.

As heating with heating oil is OK that's a separate tank, but as heating is less taxed than red it should be cheaper in the long run to have two tanks and use the right fuels.

Edited August 7, 2013 by Arthur Brown

[OldGoat]

Probably the only real thing to do is to fit two fuel tanks and run derv in the propulsion tank and home heating oil in the heating tank.

 

As regs say that you should pay derv rate for propulsion -that tank is fine.

As heating with heating oil is OK that's a separate tank, but as heating is less taxed than red it should be cheaper in the long run to have two tanks and use the right fuels.

All these responses about two tanks begs the question, which is (or are):-

 

• Will RDCO's be prepared to install two distribution tanks
• More importantly given the cash flow implications - will boatyards even sell DERV

If not these discussions are academic.

 

What really annoys me is that the EU directives were designed to make a level playing field, so that frinstance a lorry couldn't fill up in a cheaper country and go to another to deliver the goods - thus distorting that playing field.

 

The UK strict interpretation of the rules doesn't affect anything across borders.; The only advantage, if any is that UK residents or visitors get an advantage while they are over here. Even so any distortion is tiny in economic terms. Lost revenue to our exchequer was reasonably estimated at £6m p.a. A small tiddle in an huge P-pot...

 

Really, Brussels shouldn't faff about with such a tiny item, EXCEPT, except that some folks take every opportunity to have a go at us perfidieous albions .

 

What a blurry waste of everybody's time......

[Ray T]

From the RYA:

 

http://www.rya.org.uk/newsevents/news/Pages/UKtochallengeeuropeancomissionoverreddiesel.aspx?utm_source=InBrief&utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=aug13-inbrief

[Doorman]

if you were boating on the norfolk broads you would be paying white prices for red fuel

 

1.40 per litre in places, cheapest is around 1.20

Aye, and they pay £4.20 for a pint of ale too!

 

Stupid is, stupid does.

Edited August 8, 2013 by Doorman

[Hawkmoth]

Probably the only real thing to do is to fit two fuel tanks and run derv in the propulsion tank and home heating oil in the heating tank.

 

As regs say that you should pay derv rate for propulsion -that tank is fine.

As heating with heating oil is OK that's a separate tank, but as heating is less taxed than red it should be cheaper in the long run to have two tanks and use the right fuels.

And who, among the canalside retailers, is going to be fitting new tanks in order to sell both types of fuel?

I don't think the turnover on fuel will be sufficient to make it viable.

I can see a time if this goes ahead, when only white will be available to the majority of us on the canals.

As I have said before in this thread, only those with access to a land tank which can be filled with heating oil will be able to have "the red".

And, don't forget, that the price of this white will be much higher than in the local garage because of turnover/volume sales.

Bob