Typical width between mooring piers

[magpie patrick]

Eyup, a straightforward (I hope) question. In many marinas there are rows of piers which two narrow boats are expected to fit between. How far apart should these be? I've always specified five metres, (just over 16 feet) so that properly secured boats can have some fendering between the boat and the pier and still not touch each other, but I've never found a standard or documented best practice. I've a feeling the old BW marina development guide had one, but they have withdrawn that so it's no longer online. 

 

I don't do detailed design so I've only ever needed approximate figures to work out how big the marina needs to be or how many boats will fit in a given space.

 

Any thoughts? Or anyone fancy measuring the distance at the marina they are in?

 

Thanks

[Tony Brooks]

Some have double length piers so they need wider spacing, so the inside boats can get in and out between the two outer boats. If there is enough water space, I suspect this might provide more moorings

Edited October 28, 2024 by Tony Brooks

[David Mack]

11 minutes ago, magpie patrick said:

I've always specified five metres, (just over 16 feet) so that properly secured boats can have some fendering between the boat and the pier and still not touch each other,

That is presumably for piers that are only one boat long. Where longer piers are used to accommodate multiple boats, then you really need a clear space in the middle at least 7 feet wide to allow access for the inner boats. The view below is Circus Field Basin at Aylesbury where the long piers are more widely spaced than the short piers. The one wide gap bottom left is to allow access to the paint dock in the main building.

[Tonka]

I am surprised their isn't a minimum distance to deter fire from spreading. Perhaps the fire department may know

[magpie patrick]

Thanks @Tony Brooks, I'm aware of those and for a while I was on one such mooring at Scholar Green. It works well where there is a long thinnish basin with the entrance at one end, not so good on square basins with the entrance in the middle

Just now, David Mack said:

That is presumably for piers that are only one boat long. Where longer piers are used to accommodate multiple boats, then you really need a clear space in the middle at least 7 feet wide to allow access for the inner boats. The view below is Circus Field Basin at Aylesbury where the long piers are more widely spaced than the short piers. The one wide gap bottom left is to allow access to the paint dock in the main building.

 Interesting pic! But yes I'm referring to piers that are one boat long

[pearley]

In our marina , Hartford, the finger pontoons are about 30ft apart. Which leaves quite a bit of space if they have two 12' 6" widebeams but with 2 narrowboats you can easily get a third in between. 

 

If they respaced some of them just for NBs then they could increase their income.

[magpie patrick]

Just now, Tonka said:

I am surprised their isn't a minimum distance to deter fire from spreading. Perhaps the fire department may know

 Fair comment, although looking at most marina's I've been to there isn't such a restriction - whilst the boats don't touch one can reach across and shake hands with your neighbour and I'm sure flames could leap that gap

3 minutes ago, David Mack said:

 To add, the two narrow boats next to each other in front of the building is the kind of thing I have in mind. 

 

Whilst t wasn't what I was asking, I guess that for the longer piers the gap is bigger than that required just to moor a third boat as boats actually have to travel through it? So pair of moorings the gap might be sixteen feet but for those with a passage between them it might be more like 26 feet? 

[BEngo]

The other important consideration is pier width.  Little point in having a, say, 2 m  fire gap on the water side when the boat on the other side of the pier is only 600 mm away.

 

A decent width pier also makes it easier to load and unload "stuff", like gas bottles or coal and all the paraphenalia needed for a trip out.

 

N

[magpie patrick]

1 minute ago, BEngo said:

The other important consideration is pier width.  Little point in having a, say, 2 m  fire gap on the water side when the boat on the other side of the pier is only 600 mm away.

 

A decent width pier also makes it easier to load and unload "stuff", like gas bottles or coal and all the paraphenalia needed for a trip out.

 

N

 Indeed - I normally add between 600mm and one metre for pier width - but I'm specifically looking at width for boats to prevent the likelihood of them damaging each other by scraping or banging against each other - yes I know you can use fenders but to do that there has to be room for them!

[Rob-M]

Not sure the actual measurements in our marina but we have width for two narrowboats with side fenders and still a gap big enough to fall down in between the two boats as I am always careful when walking down between the boats.  Other marinas we have been in the two boats have almost been touching.

[GUMPY]

Blackthorn lake is about 7 yards between pontoons.

It made getting in and out easy and the next boat wasn't right on top of you.

 

[Peugeot 106]

Google narrow boat marine aerial view and click on pictures for quite a few examples

[ditchcrawler]

22 minutes ago, magpie patrick said:

Thanks @Tony Brooks, I'm aware of those and for a while I was on one such mooring at Scholar Green. It works well where there is a long thinnish basin with the entrance at one end, not so good on square basins with the entrance in the middle

 Interesting pic! But yes I'm referring to piers that are one boat long

I understand the Kings Bromley was lade out by landscapers and they were too tight, but I can't guarantee that is fact, just what I was told 

14 minutes ago, magpie patrick said:

 Indeed - I normally add between 600mm and one metre for pier width - but I'm specifically looking at width for boats to prevent the likelihood of them damaging each other by scraping or banging against each other - yes I know you can use fenders but to do that there has to be room for them!

You also need to take into account that to get into a berth like that you need to be exactly in line, so a lot of space off the ends of the pontoons is required 

[GUMPY]

Another thought is that at 21ft there is room for a wide beam and a narrowboat. Useful if sited on a waterway that can accommodate bigger boats.

[magpie patrick]

Let me put it another way - how much margin would it be wise to allow over the combined width of the boats! an extra foot? two feet? three?

 

 

[GUMPY]

Minimum of four foot for me. Saves crunching boats on the way in.

 

[Alan de Enfield]

I always found it strange that caravan parks have very strict regulation for the spacing between vans - and the spacings between bases are measured before the licence is finally granted.

 

Why do caravans require a minimum of 7 mts, (and the recommendation is 10mts), between them (and no sheds etc allowed to reduce the gap) whilst, when boats are moored up they have about 2 feet of spacing between them.

 

Both must have a similar fire risk (LPG) and maybe boats are even a higher risk due to an 'open fire' and the availability of diesel/petrol.

[Jen-in-Wellies]

46 minutes ago, GUMPY said:

Another thought is that at 21ft there is room for a wide beam and a narrowboat. Useful if sited on a waterway that can accommodate bigger boats.

20' here. Built by BW in the 90's. A fir tree, with jetties for a single boat each side coming at an angle each side of a central pier. Enough for a narrowboat and a wide, but not a full width wide. You definitely can't get a third narrowboat between two other narrows. Don't ask me how I know!

 

1 hour ago, magpie patrick said:

Fair comment, although looking at most marina's I've been to there isn't such a restriction - whilst the boats don't touch one can reach across and shake hands with your neighbour and I'm sure flames could leap that gap

I recall a fire spreading to other boats in Stone some 15 years back. However, once the mooring lines have melted through, then a boat on fire is free to drift in to others, spreading the flames.

 

[BEngo]

I don't have access to the original layout drawings atm, but IIRC the staging  at Circus Field is 1m wide and piers are laid out at 8.5 m centres, leaving a 7.5 m gap which is adequate to pass a boat between two moored boats.

I will dig the drawings out later.

N

[BCN Challenge]

1 hour ago, ditchcrawler said:

You also need to take into account that to get into a berth like that you need to be exactly in line, so a lot of space off the ends of the pontoons is required 

Unfortunately nobody told that to the folks who laid out Circus Field Basin.

 

Looking at the aerial shot above exactly how do you exit the berths in the far right without contacting the boat that’s moored alongside the bank in the bottom right corner?

 

I know from experience it’s an awkward location, and jinxed by the fact that someone will be watching.

Edited October 28, 2024 by BCN Challenge

[haggis]

Although our marina is ideal for us in lots of ways, I am concerned at how little space there is between boats. It is about 6 inches and when both boats have fenders down, there is no room for sideways movement. Getting into the mooring requires very careful driving and I try to step off the front with the bow rope and hold it in as I walk along the pontoon. When boating, I look longingly at pier distances in other marinas 🙂 

[Ray T]

Wigrams Marina on the Oxford / G.U.

We stayed there for a short while. I wasn't a fan of the set up.

[Ken X]

I looked at our photos of Bancroft Basin, which I am assuming is BW/C&RT built.  Had a quick play with the distance measure function on Google Maps and it looks like 5 yards plus between piers giving about 2 ft between boats which agrees with our pictures.

 

Bit quick and dirty but I bet it's not far off 16 ft

Edited October 28, 2024 by Ken X
Incompetence

[David Mack]

1 hour ago, BCN Challenge said:

Unfortunately nobody told that to the folks who laid out Circus Field Basin.

 

Looking at the aerial shot above exactly how do you exit the berths in the far right without contacting the boat that’s moored alongside the bank in the bottom right corner?

 

I know from experience it’s an awkward location, and jinxed by the fact that someone will be watching.

Getting a 70 footer in through the entrance bridge and then onto one of the short jetties at Circus Field (or vice versa) is also 'interesting', especially if its windy or you have weed on the prop. And something really not to be attempted single handed!

[BCN Challenge]

1 hour ago, David Mack said:

Getting a 70 footer in through the entrance bridge and then onto one of the short jetties at Circus Field (or vice versa) is also 'interesting', especially if its windy or you have weed on the prop. And something really not to be attempted single handed!

It has made me wonder how Fulbourne fares with getting in and out.

Edited October 28, 2024 by BCN Challenge