Licence increase announced 2024-25

[Alan de Enfield]

Just now, beerbeerbeerbeerbeer said:

you’ll have to explain that one for me please

 

 

VAT

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

3 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

VAT

ha yes, of course

[IanD]

1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

And, whilst the towpath users** are generating a grant of higher value than boating it is unlikely to change.

 

**There are no grant KPIs for keeping the navigation open, or for increasing the number of boaters, the grant related KPIs are :

1) Number and duration of unplanned towpath closures

2) Percentage of towpaths in condition A to C 

3) Number of volunter days contributed to the Trust

4) Network Stewardship score (functionality & Public benefit)

 

Other 'reportable' statistics include :

 

 

Boaters now appear, with a 'Boater survey', but still the priority is on measuring & reporting the number of visitors, and, a visitors satisfaction survey.

 

 

I suspect that CART *would* rather spend more money on keeping the canals usable for (35000) boaters and less on gussying them up to attract (millions of) non-boater visitors, but given the terms of the grant (KPIs) they don't have any choice... 😞

 

If they ever did what some people on here seem to want and turned round to the government and said "Sod your KPIs, we're going to spend all the money on locks/paddles/dredging/boater stuff" the reaction is likely to be "OK, the boaters can pay for the canals then, we'll keep the grant money to spend on our chums".

 

That would mean roughly trebling the license fee from where it is today, I'm sure that would make the whingers *much* happier... 😉 

[Mike Todd]

4 hours ago, Arthur Marshall said:

So am I, then, and so is every online moorer!

I was well aware of that and tried (perhaps not well enough!) to account for that. For example, I distinguish between CC and noHM and not towpath moorers.

[cuthound]

On 27/11/2023 at 16:14, jonesthenuke said:

I wonder what this means "A step-change in income generation from towpath users and other supporters is targeted". I would be impressed if they can raise significant money from Joe Public on the towpath.

 

Perhaps they are going to take up my earlier suggestion of free access to the towpath for the public, but paid for turnstiles to exit?   

[mrsmelly]

23 hours ago, Nightwatch said:

Never happy having to pay more, for anything, to be honest. These increases are not as painful as I thought they would be.

 

Seriously considering becoming a land lubber

I always thought it was a bargain licence fee. Living aboard and paying Ur way has never been really cheap. My bloody council tax in a boring house is 2k and rising. Life's a bitch as they say. Don't forget how boring houses are old sport!!

[Arthur Marshall]

2 hours ago, mrsmelly said:

I always thought it was a bargain licence fee. Living aboard and paying Ur way has never been really cheap. My bloody council tax in a boring house is 2k and rising. Life's a bitch as they say. Don't forget how boring houses are old sport!!

My licence is going up by sixty quid, or a fiver a month. If I was a continuous cruiser, it would going up by another fifty, but then I wouldn't be paying £800 to CRT for the privilege of being allowed to pay more money the the farm where I moor. My heart bleeds...

[Cheese]

2 hours ago, mrsmelly said:

I always thought it was a bargain licence fee.

Absolutely, for liveaboards (who don't retain a house).  They get council-funded services (police, fire, education for any children, street-lighting to get safely to/from the (non-waterside) pubs & shops, social care  / welfare when they eventually get too decrepit, etc) without having to contribute anything towards them.

[mrsmelly]

11 hours ago, Cheese said:

Absolutely, for liveaboards (who don't retain a house).  They get council-funded services (police, fire, education for any children, street-lighting to get safely to/from the (non-waterside) pubs & shops, social care  / welfare when they eventually get too decrepit, etc) without having to contribute anything towards them.

Even for liveaboards that do retain a house. Rent the house out and someone else pays the council tax. Life is all about choices, no one forces people to live in houses peeps could have the superior living on a boat life style ( until they are old and decrepit  ) it never ceases to amaze me that peeps have a house and a boat and decide to live in the poxy house. When we owned both we always lived on the boat and had days away at the house and holidays, much better way to do it.

[IanD]

14 hours ago, cuthound said:

 

Perhaps they are going to take up my earlier suggestion of free access to the towpath for the public, but paid for turnstiles to exit?   

Turnstiles? Get with the modern world daddy-o, put in a network of facial recognition cameras linked to a central government database, and charge their accounts directly. Works in China... 😉

[TheBiscuits]

1 hour ago, IanD said:

Turnstiles?

 

Facial recognition isn't half as good as a turnstile for winding cyclists up ... 🤣

[Alan de Enfield]

17 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

Facial recognition isn't half as good as a turnstile for winding cyclists up ... 🤣

 

Pictures taken from a BW document about towpath access (2006)

 

 

[Hudds Lad]

8 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Pictures taken from a BW document about towpath access (2006)

 

 

I've been known to do like the hi-vis chap if the gate is closed on the Narrow, no hefty battery etc. on my bike so easy as pie, did see a chap copy me once who slipped and dropped his steed in  

[Jerra]

2 minutes ago, Hudds Lad said:

I've been known to do like the hi-vis chap if the gate is closed on the Narrow, no hefty battery etc. on my bike so easy as pie, did see a chap copy me once who slipped and dropped his steed in  

Is the gap at the left side not capable of letting a bike through?   If not what is its purpose?

[Alan de Enfield]

Just now, Jerra said:

Is the gap at the left side not capable of letting a bike through?   If not what is its purpose?

 

I think that may be why the caption is 'not always used as intended'.

[Jerra]

2 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

I think that may be why the caption is 'not always used as intended'.

It just seemed a lot harder work than using it as it is clearly designed for.

[magnetman]

People carry the bike around to save a few seconds. 

 

 

The only reason to be on the bike is to minimise journey time otherwise they would be walking. 

[IanD]

39 minutes ago, Jerra said:

It just seemed a lot harder work than using it as it is clearly designed for.

Designed for by somebody who's never used one, maybe...

 

To use them "as designed" you have to push the bike into the bike-shaped gap leaning it up against the frame (which isn't designed for this...), then manoeuvre yourself through the swinging gate by pushing it backwards and forwards and walking round the end, then pull the bike through from the other side.

 

All of which is slower and more hassle and has more risk of scraping paint off the bike frame than just picking the bike up and stepping round the end of the railing, as in the photo -- so faced with one of these that's what many cyclists do, including me...

Edited November 29, 2023 by IanD

[Naughty Cal]

When we sold our boat our annual licence fee was about £360.

 

I have just checked what it would be from April 2024 and that would have gone up to £543. 

 

That's a fairly substantial difference on a small boat on top of mooring fees which would have also increased by £365 per annum over the same time period and insurance costs and fuel costs increasing.

[IanD]

3 minutes ago, Naughty Cal said:

When we sold our boat our annual licence fee was about £360.

 

I have just checked what it would be from April 2024 and that would have gone up to £543. 

 

That's a fairly substantial difference on a small boat on top of mooring fees which would have also increased by £365 per annum over the same time period and insurance costs and fuel costs increasing.

When did you sell your boat? How wide is it, and were you a CCer?

Edited November 29, 2023 by IanD

[Hudds Lad]

47 minutes ago, Jerra said:

Is the gap at the left side not capable of letting a bike through?   If not what is its purpose?

No such gap on the one on the Narrow.

[Cheshire cat]

49 minutes ago, Jerra said:

Is the gap at the left side not capable of letting a bike through?   If not what is its purpose?

 

2 minutes ago, Hudds Lad said:

No such gap on the one on the Narrow.

The worst ones are the ones made from tube steel that narrow towards the top. Think they are made by a company in Rotherham. Effective against motorbikes but a PITA for MTB bikes too. One near me has been modified by someone with a battery angle grinder.

[Naughty Cal]

9 minutes ago, IanD said:

When did you sell your boat? How wide is it, and were you a CCer?

2021

8'2"

Home mooring

[Hudds Lad]

That's the best capture i can get from a 360 pic on Google Maps, as you can see the gate is often open. If not its either wrestle with it and your bike and lose paint, put it up on the back wheel and try to walk it through the style/kissing gate type thing again possibly losing paint, or quickly slip round the end carrying the bike.

 

 

[IanD]

4 minutes ago, Naughty Cal said:

2021

8'2"

Home mooring

Out of that increase (£360 to £543 is +£183 which is 50%), the recently announced increases of 6% overall and 13% wideboat supplement (IIRC this was zero in 2021) account for half (+£90), the rest is presumably just year-on-year rises which look to be about 8% per year (over 3 years). Which seems high, are you sure your numbers are correct?