No blacking since 2014!

[Poppin]

Saw a fairly nice narrowboat yesterday I am thinking of buying.  I was wondering what the issue was and then asked "oh, when was she last blacked". 2014. Such a shame seeing as the boat was just sitting in the marina most of that time and the owners didn't just instruct them to black it!

 

The boat is 2001 build. Inspection hatch under the bed shows considerable internal corrosion, but it is dry. 

 

I am considering having a survey done but wanted to ask more experienced folk the odds of this survey being a waste of money. Is the damage likely to be significant?

[Alan de Enfield]

18 minutes ago, Poppin said:

 

 

I am considering having a survey done but wanted to ask more experienced folk the odds of this survey being a waste of money. Is the damage likely to be significant?

 

 

I'd suggest that a survey is imperative - particularly if it has been sat in a marina for years amid all of those electrical-worms that float about in Marinas eating steel boat hulls.

It is not just water that causes corrosion and errosion.

 

10 years  without any paint on it is going to have allowed a considerable build up of rust.

 

If it is 'the boat for you' then you need to pay to find out the condition - it'll take £800-£1000 out of your budget but if it does 'fail the survey' it will have saved you £1000's. 

[jonathanA]

you might be lucky and it might have been two packed so might be in better nick than if just bitumen blacked.  can you see what it looks like at the water line or just below ?.  compare to other boats around it in the marina.

 

if its never moved (or hardly been out) then the chances of damage from hitting things will have been reduced. I guess if its not been blacked then has any other servicing been done ? - expect to need to change the batteries and service the engine as well.  

 

Assuming your happy with everything else  I think you need to get it out of the water and get a hull survey. its coming up to the age when some insurers will want that anyway. 

[Arthur Marshall]

Internal corrosion might be a bit worrying - you don't want it rusting from both sides. Mine has very little internal rust after over thirty years apart from the engine bilge.

[Sea Dog]

16 minutes ago, jonathanA said:

I guess if its not been blacked then has any other servicing been done ?

This would be my concern too. If the previous owner has neglected such an obvious requiremen, just what has he bothered with? The answer is very likely to be: "not a lot". The price ought to be very attractive to allow for the potential effects such neglect to be mitigated. If not, what steps should you take?

 

Answer: "Bloomin' great big ones!" 

[MtB]

31 minutes ago, Sea Dog said:

This would be my concern too. If the previous owner has neglected such an obvious requiremen, just what has he bothered with? The answer is very likely to be: "not a lot". The price ought to be very attractive to allow for the potential effects such neglect to be mitigated. If not, what steps should you take?

 

Answer: "Bloomin' great big ones!" 

 

Lol!

 

But surely it depends on the price and the OP's attitude to risk. I'd happily buy a boat like that if it was cheap enough. Chances are I'd get a decade or two of use out of it before it finally sinks, even with no further maintenance. 

 

The corrosion in the bilge sounds like a water leak that has been fixed by the way. Or it might be a leaking window that wets the bilge only when it rains. 

 

 

[Sea Dog]

1 minute ago, MtB said:

 

Lol!

 

But surely it depends on the price and the OP's attitude to risk. I'd happily buy a boat like that if it was cheap enough. Chances are I'd get a decade or two of use out of it before it finally sinks, even with no further maintenance. 

 

The corrosion in the bilge sounds like a water leak that has been fixed by the way. Or it might be a leaking window that wets the bilge only when it rains. 

 

 

Oh I agree entirely, hence my qualification: "The price ought to be very attractive to allow for the potential effects of such neglect to be mitigated". Those potential effects might not even occur, but it would be wise to have sufficient margin in the event that they do.

[mrsmelly]

Just to put a spanner in the works..................in 2001 I bought a boat from a bloke who had owned it for 18 years and never had it blacked, it was a 1981 colecraft shell of 65 feet. It had spent all those years on a mooring just going a few miles each way on the odd occasion on the Oxford. He was a smashin bloke and was giving up boating, boat normaly worth about 16k in those days. He had been messed about with people going to have surveys etc etc and I just said " Look we both know the bottom must need work so I will give you 6k and take a risk " no bullshit waffle, ok he says take it away. I paid and knowing it would need bottoming drove it up to see Johny Pinder for hull survey and work doing. Boat was a 6/6/4

nothing anywhere was below 5 mil and mostly 5,5 ish and it needed nowt doing. I did have some extra rubbing strakes fitted whilst out and it was so good had it grit blasted and two packed. Ya never knows.

[Mike Hurley]

A you tuber i follow had his done last in 1999, still floating.

[Mad Harold]

6 hours ago, Mike Hurley said:

A you tuber i follow had his done last in 1999, still floating.

But it will still float with 1/2 mm of steel left, but give it a good kick.....

[Tracy D'arth]

When I started boating; anodes were a rarity. Hulls were 6-6-4 .

Many are still afloat.

I know of a boat on a linear mooring that never moved more than 300 yards for 21 years, never came out and never blacked. No anodes. Never on a shore line.

When the guy died the boat was taken out and was found to be in very good condition considering.

I also know of another that was used a bit, always on a shore line, not blacked for 11 years. On a farm linear mooring. That too was in good condition.

Than there are the ones that have sat in a marina on shore power for 6 years from new and are rotten from stem to stern.

 

So much depends on the water. the steel, the electrics and where they are amongst other boats.

[IanD]

15 hours ago, Tracy D'arth said:

When I started boating; anodes were a rarity. Hulls were 6-6-4 .

Many are still afloat.

I know of a boat on a linear mooring that never moved more than 300 yards for 21 years, never came out and never blacked. No anodes. Never on a shore line.

When the guy died the boat was taken out and was found to be in very good condition considering.

I also know of another that was used a bit, always on a shore line, not blacked for 11 years. On a farm linear mooring. That too was in good condition.

Than there are the ones that have sat in a marina on shore power for 6 years from new and are rotten from stem to stern.

 

So much depends on the water. the steel, the electrics and where they are amongst other boats.

 

I suspect the main reason for this is boats with more and more electrics relying on cheap galvanic isolators rather than expensive isolation transformers to protect them (and other boats) against electrochemical corrosion...

[jonathanA]

more likely the don't have either or if they do they are incorrectly installed. 

 

[IanD]

15 minutes ago, jonathanA said:

more likely the don't have either or if they do they are incorrectly installed. 

 

In which case, welcome to a world of trouble...

[truckcab79]

On 02/11/2023 at 11:01, mrsmelly said:

Just to put a spanner in the works..................in 2001 I bought a boat from a bloke who had owned it for 18 years and never had it blacked, it was a 1981 colecraft shell of 65 feet. It had spent all those years on a mooring just going a few miles each way on the odd occasion on the Oxford. He was a smashin bloke and was giving up boating, boat normaly worth about 16k in those days. He had been messed about with people going to have surveys etc etc and I just said " Look we both know the bottom must need work so I will give you 6k and take a risk " no bullshit waffle, ok he says take it away. I paid and knowing it would need bottoming drove it up to see Johny Pinder for hull survey and work doing. Boat was a 6/6/4

nothing anywhere was below 5 mil and mostly 5,5 ish and it needed nowt doing. I did have some extra rubbing strakes fitted whilst out and it was so good had it grit blasted and two packed. Ya never knows.

 

This must be relatively common no?  
 

I see loads of boats in marinas and canal-side that look in poor state of repair and clearly don’t have regular maintenance work of any kind let alone anything that involves the expense of craning out. 

[Annie cariad]

Walk off find another boat 

[blackrose]

I always look along the waterline of the hull and you can generally see fairly quickly which boats need to come out the water for repainting. When you start to see rust spots along the waterline my rule of thumb is that you've got about a year to get the boat out of the water. In the OPs case unless the boat was epoxied then those rust spots will have become a long line with no paint. It's quite difficult to visually assess the rust unless you can get up close with a scraper and a stiff wire brush, however you're not starting from a good place with this boat and you may be wasting your money on a survey that concurs with Annie's advice above. 

 

Let's face it, if the owner hasn't bothered to maintain the hull below the waterline then it shows he doesn't care so what other horrors could emerge (corroded internal locker bases, lack of engine servicing, etc)? I knew a bloke who didn't bother to change the oil on his brand new PRM hydraulic gearbox for example and it ended up requiring a complete and expensive rebuild. Neglect is one of the worst things you can do to a boat.

 

But before you walk away ask the owner what type of paint was used for the original job in 2014. If it was two part epoxy then it could be ok (but don't mention epoxy yourself and put words in his mouth). If he doesn't know or he says bitumen then walk away.

Edited November 4, 2023 by blackrose

[MtB]

23 hours ago, truckcab79 said:

 

This must be relatively common no?  
 

I see loads of boats in marinas and canal-side that look in poor state of repair and clearly don’t have regular maintenance work of any kind let alone anything that involves the expense of craning out. 

 

I see the same. About a quarter of the boats here on the K&A look like they've never been lifted out in 35 years and one never sees one sunk from corrosion. As with my own boats which also never seem to suffer any sort corrosion, my hypothesis is the absence of mains power on board. 

[David Mack]

59 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

I see the same. About a quarter of the boats here on the K&A look like they've never been lifted out in 35 years and one never sees one sunk from corrosion. As with my own boats which also never seem to suffer any sort corrosion, my hypothesis is the absence of mains power on board. 

I do wonder at the sort of houseboat seen at places like Little Venice. Many are two storey so too big to pass under bridges, with no access to anywhere they could be craned out. And permanently connected to mains services with all that entails for corrosion risk. Yet they've been there for decades and presumably not had the hulls painted in that time.

[MtB]

17 minutes ago, David Mack said:

I do wonder at the sort of houseboat seen at places like Little Venice. Many are two storey so too big to pass under bridges, with no access to anywhere they could be craned out. And permanently connected to mains services with all that entails for corrosion risk. Yet they've been there for decades and presumably not had the hulls painted in that time.

 

Have to say I wonder about the huge two storey boats on the Basy on the SCC moorings at Woodham, Surrey too, for similar reasons. 

 

As a teenager I remember them all being wooden sinkers with security of tenure. Nowadays the exact same boats seem to have morphed into massive modern flat-afloats! 

[Peanut]

Speaking to the owner of one near here, it is built on top of a Thames lighter, and has a 2" thick steel hull. He seemed unconcerned. Whereas, one down at Shoreham Harbour, had to have a membrane of some sort put round the hull to stop it leaking. All on freehold moorings.  Such vessels would need to go into a dry dock for repair.

[David Mack]

2 hours ago, Peanut said:

Speaking to the owner of one near here, it is built on top of a Thames lighter, and has a 2" thick steel hull.

I very much doubt that! I would have thought 1/2" maximum, and possibly quite a lot less.