Trying to connect a domestic gas hob to a rubber hose

[LadyG]

Just now, ditchcrawler said:

Thats easy, if you do it right then you must be competent, with all the certificates in the world if you do it wrong you weren't competent 

The OP is self evidently not a competent person.

[MtB]

1 minute ago, TheBiscuits said:

7.9.6 Do ‘all-hose’ systems comply with ISO 10239?

 

Well is this the standard you wish to comply with?

 

Others prefer to comply only with the (sloppy) BSS.  

 

 

 

 

 

[Ianws]

3 minutes ago, LadyG said:

The OP is self evidently not a competent person.

That's why they asked for advice. 

[TheBiscuits]

1 minute ago, MtB said:

Well is this the standard you wish to comply with?

 

Others prefer to comply only with the (sloppy) BSS.  

 

My previous post is a direct quote from the BSS checklist ....

[David Mack]

1. Is this for residential use (whether in a house, boat or caravan)? If so the law requires that all gas work is carried out by someone on the Gas Safe Register with the appropriate endorsements (lpg and boat for example). The OP should not be doing any of this.

2. If it is non residential, such as a pleasure boat, the gas can be fitted by someone other than a Gas Safe registered bod. But the person doing the work must be 'competent', and the questions asked by the OP clearly demonstrate that he is not.

3. If this is on a boat, then, as a minimum, the whole installation from gas bottle to gas cooker must comply with the Boat Safety Scheme requirements (available on the BSS website). That includes things like the bottle and regulator being housed in a gas locker so that any gas leakage from the bottle or regulator drains overboard right through to flame failure devices being fitted to all gas burners.

If determined to press on himself the OP should thoroughly familiarise himself with the BSS requirements before going any further.

[MtB]

7 minutes ago, David Mack said:

2. If it is non residential, such as a pleasure boat, the gas can be fitted by someone other than a Gas Safe registered bod. But the person doing the work must be 'competent', and the questions asked by the OP clearly demonstrate that he is not.

 

I disagree.

 

For leisure boats, any ol' Tom, Dick or Harry can install gas systems AIUI, no matter how incompetent.

 

Or can you cite a reg requiring leisure boat installers to be "competent" please? Many thanks.

 

 

 

Edited August 11, 2023 by MtB
Fiddle with it...

[LadyG]

Of course there are other considerations,  wot about insurance Ts&Cs?

[Garethh]

1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

How about - for starters .................

 

Has the 'domestic' gas hob been modified to run on bottled gas ?

(it is different to domestic gas)

Yes I've put a conversion kit, replacing the gas heads.

1 hour ago, LadyG said:

He has been advised NOT to proceed.

AND to use a professional.

Please can you point me in the direction of a marine gas engineer?

[LadyG]

6 hours ago, Garethh said:

Yes I've put a conversion kit, replacing the gas heads.

Please can you point me in the direction of a marine gas engineer?

Go to GasSaferegister.co.uk

Search for boat

Edited August 12, 2023 by LadyG

[LadyG]

6 hours ago, LadyG said:

Go to GasSafe

look for

GasSafe lpg and boat

I remembered the site is not user friendly ....

Find the GasSafe register site

On the left of the MENU there is a tiny search box , this is where you enter BOAT

Tick "either"

Then the postcode, it will come  with a few businesses ...

 

Edited August 12, 2023 by LadyG

[Tony Brooks]

Another comment about the connection to the copper pipe.

 

There is no visible sign of anything being provided to stop the hose pulling off the pipe, such as an olive on the pipe or, better still, a proper hose tail.

It also looks as if the hose clip may be too large, so a potential gas leak point.

 

FWIW I think the brass fitting on the stove is half the bayonet fitting that allows the PROPER gas hose to be disconnected.

 

Makes me wonder what the OP's electrical work is like.

 

 

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

8 hours ago, MtB said:

 

Flexible hoses are (supposedly) ok for "portable" appliances IIRC. 

 

A gas hob is not "portable".

 

 

 

 

 

my oven/hob is,

I can pull it out to clean behind and around (not something I’m in the habit of doing)

the oven is attached to the gas pipe with a flexible hose,

 

 

 

 

 

[Rob-M]

I had a replacement grill thermocouple fitted a couple of months ago, it was done by a bss, gas safe registered person and when he pulled our cooker out he said he had to replace the flexible hose as it wasn't allowed.  The cooker had originally been connected by a different bss, gas safe registered person.

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

1 minute ago, Rob-M said:

I had a replacement grill thermocouple fitted a couple of months ago, it was done by a bss, gas safe registered person and when he pulled our cooker out he said he had to replace the flexible hose as it wasn't allowed.  The cooker had originally been connected by a different bss, gas safe registered person.

so the cooker is now fixed?

 

perhaps I’ll pull mine out and have a good look to see how it’s attached at either end. 
 

(there’s a good small veg knife I lost down the side too)

 

 

[Rob-M]

18 minutes ago, Goliath said:

so the cooker is now fixed?

 

perhaps I’ll pull mine out and have a good look to see how it’s attached at either end. 
 

(there’s a good small veg knife I lost down the side too)

 

 

Yes it is a Thetford built in cooker so has always been fixed in place and now has a coil of piping rather than the flexible hose it came with.

[MtB]

30 minutes ago, Rob-M said:

I had a replacement grill thermocouple fitted a couple of months ago, it was done by a bss, gas safe registered person and when he pulled our cooker out he said he had to replace the flexible hose as it wasn't allowed.  The cooker had originally been connected by a different bss, gas safe registered person.

 

There is endless confusion about this, and its rooted in confusion about the difference between a fixed appliance and a mobile appliance.

 

I suggest your response should have been to ask which regulation bars flexible hoses (or which regulation mandates rigid pipework) on a mobile appliance. They would probably have produced the reg requiring a fixed and built-in oven to be piped in rigid pipe. 

 

The opposite happens too. I see built in hobs and built in ovens connected with flexible hoses designed for mobile, free-standing cookers. Fixed appliances should be piped in rigid. 

 

 

Edited August 12, 2023 by MtB
Clarify a point.

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

9 minutes ago, Rob-M said:

Yes it is a Thetford built in cooker so has always been fixed in place and now has a coil of piping rather than the flexible hose it came with.

well, I’ve retrieved me knife after 6 or 7 years

hose and connections look fine,

 

now I’m only guessing but….

BSS can’t make you ‘modernise’ can they?

but can only insist you follow up to date rules/guides when fitting new. 
As in when I replace the cooker. 
Mine’s old enough that it has no flame failure cut out devise but passes BSS because it was fitted long ago. 

[MtB]

18 minutes ago, Goliath said:

but can only insist you follow up to date rules/guides when fitting new.

 

I don't think they can even do that, though they might try!

 

Whatever is present in the boat on the day of the BSS inspection, needs to comply with the BSS rules in force on the day of the inspection. Nothing more or less IMO. 

 

Does the BSS have anything to say about types of hoses supplying free-standing cookers? And built-in cooking appliances? I'm not sure without looking it up.

 

 

 

 

 

[Tracy D'arth]

The confusion between fixed and movable appliances causes the confusion about "rigid" copper pipework and flexible hose.

In the domestic scene a fixed appliance i.e. built in, should be fitted with rigid pipework but an appliance that can be pulled out for cleaning etc. should be on a hose.

This all falls apart when you get appliances that can only be removed or installed by sliding them into a housing. If piped with rigid pipe and then connected outside the housing it is impossible to get them out again without cutting pipe. In this instance a flexible connection would allow installation and removal of an otherwise fixed appliance.

[Alan de Enfield]

7 minutes ago, MtB said:

Does the BSS have anything to say about types of hoses supplying free-standing cookers?

 

 

Yes.

 

 

LPG hoses used to connect appliances or regulators to LPG supply pipework must not exceed 1m in length

 

* must be part of pre-made hose assemblies of suitable proprietary manufacture or use suitable nozzles secured by crimped or worm-drive clamps; and,

• must not be made using hose clamps fixed by spring tension; and

• must be free of any missing components, cracks, burrs or rough edges or signs of other damage or deterioration; and,

• where made with crimped or worm-drive clamps, the clamps must be suitably sized, that is, not so oversized that the band forms an elliptical shape, or so undersized that inadequate compression is achieved; and,

• be appropriately tight, that is, not so loose that the hose can be pulled forward or back under light manual force nor so tight that the hose is excessively pinched.

 

[Jen-in-Wellies]

33 minutes ago, Goliath said:

now I’m only guessing but….

BSS can’t make you ‘modernise’ can they?

but can only insist you follow up to date rules/guides when fitting new. 

Generally, exceptions to "it must meet this" are explicitly called out, "unless installed before 20**). Otherwise, no exceptions.

[Alan de Enfield]

39 minutes ago, Goliath said:

BSS can’t make you ‘modernise’ can they?

 

The installation of CO alarms was made mandatory for all boats, even those made before the date of the implementation of the new 'rule'.

[Bod]

12 hours ago, Garethh said:

I'm currently trying to connect a domestic gas hob to a rubber hose which is connected to the red gas bottle, below are pics of the pipe coming from the gas hob and a pic of the hose. 3 pic is of the connector I think I need, but guidance would really be appreciated.

 

 

 

Ok Gas.

The main thing about gas, it's too expensive to waste!

A 13kg cylinder of LPG propane, now costs £40-45 each.

It must also be realised that gas (LPG) is heavier than air, so when released to atmosphere it sinks to the lowest point it can find, and stays there.

Remember a boat hull is a sealed container, to keep the water out,

This also creates a sealed container that gas cannot find it's way out of.

For this reason gas lockers have holes at the base to allow loose gas to escape out of that part of the hull.

Leaking gas, inside the boat, falls to the floor, owing to the large gaps in and around the floor, large by gas standards, the gas falls to the very bottom of the hull, where there is no further escape.  The gas level then rises up past the floor till it finds a way out, often around knee height.  Your cat by now will have expired, and the dog will only stand up.

Watch the small spark needed to light a petrol cigarette lighter.

A spark smaller than this is all that is needed to burn the gas contained within a boat hull, by burning read explode, for the burn will be as quick spreading as that.

Other combustable items will take fire at the same time, which may be fed by the original leak.

 

Bod

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

1 minute ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

The installation of CO alarms was made mandatory for all boats, even those made before the date of the implementation of the new 'rule'.

yes very true

and now depending on the layout of the boat could mean several or more alarms. 

 

[MtB]

7 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

The installation of CO alarms was made mandatory for all boats, even those made before the date of the implementation of the new 'rule'.

 

I think Goliath was asking if BSS can make you update your boat to comply with updates in other regulations, e.g. the RCR.