Trying to connect a domestic gas hob to a rubber hose

[Alan de Enfield]

Just now, MtB said:

 

I think Goliath was asking if BSS can make you update your boat to comply with updates in other regulations, e.g. the RCR. 

 

 

 

 

I don't think so.

 

BSS can’t make you ‘modernise’ can they?

but can only insist you follow up to date rules/guides when fitting new. 

 

Lets ask him ............ @Goliath

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

No I wasn’t thinking RCR

 

I was thinking more general basic BSS stuff. 
 

as an example I believe a new cooker should have a flame failure device for each ring on the hob ?

if the boat has an old cooker with out the flame failure device it is not a failure and one is not required to upgrade the cooker in any way

 

I really can’t think of anything else. 
Was there something mentioned about the installation of a flu on a gas boiler?

Whilst the rules may have changed for new fits, old fits can remain? I’m  probably muddling things. 
 

 

Edited August 12, 2023 by Goliath

[Alan de Enfield]

1 minute ago, Goliath said:

No I wasn’t thinking RCR

 

I was thinking more general basic BSS stuff. 
 

as an example I believe a new cooker should have a flame failure device for each ring on the hob ?

if the boat has an old cooker with out the flame failure device it is not a failure and one is not required to upgrade the cooker in any way

 

I really can’t think of anything else. 
Was there something mentioned about the installation of a flu on a gas boiler?

Whilst the rules may have changed for new fits, old fits can remain? I’m  probably muddling things. 
 

 

 

There are specific exemptions listed in the BSS stating (words to the effect) "if installed before xxxx then it can remain" (for example Instantaneous gas water heaters are an exemption until alternatives become readily available) If the exemptions are not listed then it is mandatory to update to the lates BSS requirements (ie CO alarms)

[Jen-in-Wellies]

14 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

There are specific exemptions listed in the BSS stating (words to the effect) "if installed before xxxx then it can remain" (for example Instantaneous gas water heaters are an exemption until alternatives become readily available) If the exemptions are not listed then it is mandatory to update to the lates BSS requirements (ie CO alarms)s

Indeed, logically it has to be this way, mandatory, except specific, called out exceptions, as when the BSS was first started in the mid '90's, boaters could have said, "well it was installed like this" to every single fail.

[StephenA]

The way we have it set up is that the gas feed on the bulkhead terminates in a standard wall mount gas bayonet fitting and we have a regular domestic gas connector hose from the connector on the cooker to the connector on the bulkhead.  So to remove the stove we just do exactly what you'd do at home - move the cooker forward and twist and disconnect from the wall.

Edited August 12, 2023 by StephenA

[Guest]

12 hours ago, MtB said:

 

I disagree.

 

Or can you cite a reg requiring leisure boat installers to be "competent" please? Many thanks.

 

 

 

 

It's here, in GSIUR, Guidance 3(1)-(2) (https://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/priced/l56.pdf)

 

83 Anyone who does work on a gas fitting or gas storage vessel must be competent to do so (whether or not they are required to be a member of an approved class of persons). Therefore, do-it-yourself gas engineers and those performing favours for friends and relatives all need to have the required competence. The level and range of competence should match the full extent of work done, but needs only to be sufficient for and relevant to that work.

 

and 

 

 

86 Even if working at premises to which GSIUR does not apply (eg factories, quarries etc – see regulation 2(4)), competence in carrying out gas work safely is required to comply with the general duties in sections 2 and 3 of the HSW Act.

 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

15 minutes ago, watchfuleye said:

83 Anyone who does work on a gas fitting or gas storage vessel must be competent to do so (whether or not they are required to be a member of an approved class of persons). Therefore, do-it-yourself gas engineers and those performing favours for friends and relatives all need to have the required competence. The level and range of competence should match the full extent of work done, but needs only to be sufficient for and relevant to that work.

 

The GSIUR is only applicable for "Domestic Premises" (Definition : domestic premises means any premises which are wholly or mainly used as a private dwelling)

 

Leisure boats are not covered by the GSIUR

 

15 minutes ago, watchfuleye said:

86 Even if working at premises to which GSIUR does not apply (eg factories, quarries etc – see regulation 2(4)), competence in carrying out gas work safely is required to comply with the general duties in sections 2 and 3 of the HSW Act.

 

 

Only for businesses  (Hence Health & Safety at Work Act)

 

You need to read and understand the 'detail - not just the headlines !

Edited August 12, 2023 by Alan de Enfield

[ditchcrawler]

14 minutes ago, watchfuleye said:

 

It's here, in GSIUR, Guidance 3(1)-(2) (https://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/priced/l56.pdf)

 

83 Anyone who does work on a gas fitting or gas storage vessel must be competent to do so (whether or not they are required to be a member of an approved class of persons). Therefore, do-it-yourself gas engineers and those performing favours for friends and relatives all need to have the required competence. The level and range of competence should match the full extent of work done, but needs only to be sufficient for and relevant to that work.

 

and 

 

 

86 Even if working at premises to which GSIUR does not apply (eg factories, quarries etc – see regulation 2(4)), competence in carrying out gas work safely is required to comply with the general duties in sections 2 and 3 of the HSW Act.

 

 

As I said if you do it properly then you are competent, if you don't you are not.

14 minutes ago, watchfuleye said:

 

It's here, in GSIUR, Guidance 3(1)-(2) (https://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/priced/l56.pdf)

 

83 Anyone who does work on a gas fitting or gas storage vessel must be competent to do so (whether or not they are required to be a member of an approved class of persons). Therefore, do-it-yourself gas engineers and those performing favours for friends and relatives all need to have the required competence. The level and range of competence should match the full extent of work done, but needs only to be sufficient for and relevant to that work.

 

and 

 

 

86 Even if working at premises to which GSIUR does not apply (eg factories, quarries etc – see regulation 2(4)), competence in carrying out gas work safely is required to comply with the general duties in sections 2 and 3 of the HSW Act.

 

 

As I said if you do it properly then you are competent, if you don't you are not.

[Tracy D'arth]

40 minutes ago, StephenA said:

The way we have it set up is that the gas feed on the bulkhead terminates in a standard wall mount gas bayonet fitting and we have a regular domestic gas connector hose from the connector on the cooker to the connector on the bulkhead.  So to remove the stove we just do exactly what you'd do at home - move the cooker forward and twist and disconnect from the wall.

Are you certain that the hose is made for LPG? Natural gas hoses are NOT suitable.

[MtB]

36 minutes ago, watchfuleye said:

 

It's here, in GSIUR, Guidance 3(1)-(2) (https://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/priced/l56.pdf)

 

83 Anyone who does work on a gas fitting or gas storage vessel must be competent to do so (whether or not they are required to be a member of an approved class of persons). Therefore, do-it-yourself gas engineers and those performing favours for friends and relatives all need to have the required competence. The level and range of competence should match the full extent of work done, but needs only to be sufficient for and relevant to that work.

 

and 

 

 

86 Even if working at premises to which GSIUR does not apply (eg factories, quarries etc – see regulation 2(4)), competence in carrying out gas work safely is required to comply with the general duties in sections 2 and 3 of the HSW Act.

 

 

 

 

The scope of the GSIUR however, does not extend to leisure craft AIUI. 

 

Without looking it up, ISTR it says so right at the start of the Act. 

 

 

 

 

[Tracy D'arth]

5 hours ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

 

FWIW I think the brass fitting on the stove is half the bayonet fitting that allows the PROPER gas hose to be disconnected.

 

 

I don't think it is.  If it is its the wrong end!  Its an elbow, 1/2" BSP F .

 

[Guest]

16 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

 

The scope of the GSIUR however, does not extend to leisure craft AIUI. 

 

Without looking it up, ISTR it says so right at the start of the Act. 

 

 

 

 

You are right about GSIUR scope, but the competence requirement is there and extends to all 'work' concerning gas as it says. 

 

52 For the purposes of GSIUR, ‘work’ includes do-it-yourself activities, work undertaken as a favour for friends and relatives, and work for which there is no expectation of reward or gain, eg voluntary activity for charities. This means that anyone carrying out such work must have the necessary competence, as required by regulation 3(1). However, membership of an HSE-approved class of persons (under regulation 3(3)) is required only by businesses carrying out gas-fitting work

 

There is also the revised scope of the merchant shipping act, which makes vessel safety a legal requirement, as you know. 

[StephenA]

1 hour ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Are you certain that the hose is made for LPG? Natural gas hoses are NOT suitable.

 

Yes its an LPG compatible hose. Cooker was shipped pre configured for LPG with an LPG installation set.

 

You can get a complete installation kit here

 

https://www.bes.co.uk/gas-cooker-installation-kit-no-3-16174/

Edited August 12, 2023 by StephenA

[Tony Brooks]

I notice the kit includes two end feed fittings, so unless you braze/silver solder them, they should cause a BSS fail.

[StephenA]

1 hour ago, Tony Brooks said:

I notice the kit includes two end feed fittings, so unless you braze/silver solder them, they should cause a BSS fail.

 

I would hope that whoever fitted it would know that.

[Tony Brooks]

4 minutes ago, StephenA said:

 

I would hope that whoever fitted it would know that.

 

Not sure where we are in the topic, but the OP gave no confidence that he would.

[Garethh]

I've chucked the stove and will just buy a camping stove, swipe me if I new I was gonna get this much flack I won't have asked. Just a side note for a few unhelpful people on here, a simple polite no its not a gd idea would have done.

Edited August 12, 2023 by 1st ade
Removal of offensive word

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

1 hour ago, Garethh said:

I've chucked the stove and will just buy a camping stove, swipe me if I new I was gonna get this much flack I won't have asked. Just a side note for a few unhelpful people on here, a simple polite no its not a gd idea would have done.

very wise,

don’t mess with gas,

 

 

 

I notice your electrics got condemned too 🤣
 

[Alan de Enfield]

1 hour ago, Garethh said:

I've chucked the stove and will just buy a camping stove, swipe me if I new I was gonna get this much flack I won't have asked. Just a side note for a few unhelpful people on here, a simple polite no its not a gd idea would have done.

 

Just so you are aware, using a gas camping stove inside a boat is not only dangerous but is a BSS fail.

Edited August 12, 2023 by 1st ade
remove offensive language from quoted post

[LadyG]

3 hours ago, Garethh said:

I've chucked the stove and will just buy a camping stove, XXXX me if I new I was gonna get this much flack I won't have asked. Just a side note for a few unhelpful people on here, a simple polite no its not a gd idea would have done.

I'm afraid that you hit a perfect storm:

1.  Friday night.

2.  Controversial regulatory confusion.

3.  Insufficient information, so plenty of assumptions, see 2

(I'm not sure we even established if this is a boat on UK inland waters, even if it is a boat!)

4.  Regulations for leisure craft and for residential craft may require different installs, and may be applied in different ways.

Try to take it all in good spirit.

Some people are experienced professionals, others may be competent fitters .

PS are you sure you are ready for comments on camping stoves in boats?

Edited August 12, 2023 by buccaneer66
language

[howardang]

1 hour ago, Garethh said:

I've chucked the stove and will just buy a camping stove, swipe me if I new I was gonna get this much flack I won't have asked. Just a side note for a few unhelpful people on here, a simple polite no its not a gd idea would have done.

A simple comment without the expletive would have been sufficient, following your comment. 
 

Howard

 

Edited August 12, 2023 by 1st ade
Abusive language reomved from quoted text

[MtB]

1 hour ago, Garethh said:

Just a side note for a few unhelpful people on here, a simple polite no its not a gd idea would have done.

 

Like I said in Post No 2, you mean?

 

 

 

 

Edited August 12, 2023 by 1st ade
Removed quoted text (offensive)

[nicknorman]

4 hours ago, MtB said:

 

 

The scope of the GSIUR however, does not extend to leisure craft AIUI. 

 

Without looking it up, ISTR it says so right at the start of the Act. 

 

Correct. (my bold for clarity below).

 

“(5) Nothing in these Regulations shall apply in relation to the supply of gas to, or anything done in respect of a gas fitting on—

(a)a self-propelled vehicle except when such a vehicle is—

(i)hired out in the course of a business; or

(ii)made available to members of the public in the course of a business carried on from that vehicle;

(b)a sea-going ship;

(c)a vessel not requiring a national or international load line certificate except when such vessel is—

(i)hired out in the course of a business;

(ii)made available to members of the public in the course of a business carried out from that vessel; or

(iii)used primarily for domestic or residential purposes;”

Edited August 12, 2023 by nicknorman

[MtB]

3 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

Correct. (my bold for clarity below).

 

“(5) Nothing in these Regulations shall apply in relation to the supply of gas to, or anything done in respect of a gas fitting on—

(a)a self-propelled vehicle except when such a vehicle is—

(i)hired out in the course of a business; or

(ii)made available to members of the public in the course of a business carried on from that vehicle;

(b)a sea-going ship;

(c)a vessel not requiring a national or international load line certificate except when such vessel is—

(i)hired out in the course of a business;

(ii)made available to members of the public in the course of a business carried out from that vessel; or

(iii)used primarily for domestic or residential purposes;”

 

 

Curious that:

 

1) Watchfuleye says this bit does not apply and competence is required for any sort of gas work. 

2) Watchfuleye seems to have left the forum and become "guest". I wonder if there has been some off-board conflict. That would be a shame as he or she seems well-informed. 

[LadyG]

1 hour ago, MtB said:

Like I said in Post No 2, you mean?

 

 

 

 

OP is new to the forum so is not familiar with the forum, and the extensive discussions which have resulted from what seems to him a simple question.

I assume his language has not been reported to admin, yet.

(MtB is only too well aware of the protocols)

Edited August 12, 2023 by 1st ade
Offensive text in quote removed