New boat prices rising due to increased costs

[IanD]

I just had a not-entirely-unsurprising conversation with Ricky at Finesse about my boat build, he's been trying very hard to break the bad news gently... 😞

 

What he's seeing is costs for pretty much everything increasing hugely, especially recently -- steel is the worst (just don't ask!), but also things like generators and other fitout gear (Victron, Vetus) and even portholes and windows have all gone up. And guess where Baltic birch ply comes from -- yep, mainly Russia. Not just cost but availability is also a problem for many things, with very long leadtimes -- again no surprise, we've seen this at work too, and the builder next door has been complaining about the same problems.

 

Not blaming Ricky in any way, this is all out of his control, but net result is he expects a big price increase -- maybe up to £50k or so in my case... 😞 -- by the time the boat is delivered late this year compared to the estimate when I placed the initial order early last year. I'm sure all boatbuilders will be seeing the same increased costs, so anyone else having (or thinking of having) a boat built should be aware of this -- AFAIK most (all?) build contracts state that unexpected material price increases during construction will result in a higher final price for the boat than that quoted when the order was placed.

 

Time to raid the piggybank... 😞

Edited March 14, 2022 by IanD

[Arthur Marshall]

Time to reinvent the Springer...

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, IanD said:

I just had a not-entirely-unsurprising conversation with Ricky at Finesse about my boat build, he's been trying very hard to break the bad news gently... 😞

 

What he's seeing is costs for pretty much everything increasing hugely, especially recently -- steel is the worst (just don't ask!), but also things like generators and other fitout gear (Victron, Vetus) and even portholes and windows have all gone up. And guess where Baltic birch ply comes from -- yep, mainly Russia. Not just cost but availability is also a problem for many things, with very long leadtimes -- again no surprise, we've seen this at work too, and the builder next door has been complaining about the same problems.

 

Not blaming Ricky in any way, this is all out of his control, but net result is he expects a big price increase -- maybe up to £50k or so in my case... 😞 -- by the time the boat is delivered late this year compared to the estimate when I placed the initial order early last year. I'm sure all boatbuilders will be seeing the same increased costs, so anyone else having (or thinking of having) a boat built should be aware of this -- AFAIK most (all?) build contracts state that unexpected material price increases during construction will result in a higher final price for the boat than that quoted when the order was placed.

 

Time to raid the piggybank... 😞

 

Frustrating. But at least you appear to be able to throw another £50k at it. (A figure which is more than our entire boat sold for in 2015).

 

The upside is it might temper the desire of some to get on the waterways to live.

[Bee]

I sympathise. Off to Belgium tomorrow very, very early to evict spiders and sort boat out for the year.  Filled up car with diesel, ouch. 2 gallons of oil for boat engine, wow, thats gone up, the usual paint, white spirit, paraffin for sundry cleaning and heating, wow, thats gone up too, Calor gas (gas locker doesn't take European sizes) crumbs, thats dear, some wood, other stuff, ferry fare seems to have shot up, will fill up boat with diesel when I'm there (and bolt a big bar over the filler)  Gonna have to sell the dog. Poor dog. 

[IanD]

8 minutes ago, Bee said:

I sympathise. Off to Belgium tomorrow very, very early to evict spiders and sort boat out for the year.  Filled up car with diesel, ouch. 2 gallons of oil for boat engine, wow, thats gone up, the usual paint, white spirit, paraffin for sundry cleaning and heating, wow, thats gone up too, Calor gas (gas locker doesn't take European sizes) crumbs, thats dear, some wood, other stuff, ferry fare seems to have shot up, will fill up boat with diesel when I'm there (and bolt a big bar over the filler)  Gonna have to sell the dog. Poor dog. 

 

Thanks for the sympathy, but I wasn't really looking for any -- I was expecting comments that somebody mad (and rich) enough to be getting a new series hybrid boat built by a top-end boatbuilder deserves to pay an extra £50k... 😉

 

I really posted it as a warning to anybody else having a boat on order or under construction who might be horrified to find they can't afford it any more, especially if they don't find out till the final bill is presented... 😞

Edited March 14, 2022 by IanD

[Slow and Steady]

Cripes, that's a huge rise!

But yes - if you can afford a new boat you're already in the bracket of "if you have to ask how much, you can't afford it"?

Speaking selfishly, it can't do any harm to used boat prices either - it's already pretty weird that boat prices have been actually rising - maybe not such a bad "investment" after all... not that any of us bought a boat as an investment unless we were crazy!

[IanD]

6 minutes ago, Slow and Steady said:

Cripes, that's a huge rise!

But yes - if you can afford a new boat you're already in the bracket of "if you have to ask how much, you can't afford it"?

Speaking selfishly, it can't do any harm to used boat prices either - it's already pretty weird that boat prices have been actually rising - maybe not such a bad "investment" after all... not that any of us bought a boat as an investment unless we were crazy!

 

Might be true for me, but maybe not for a lot of people who have saved up over the years to get their "dream boat" built to retire onto -- that's really who the warning was aimed at. Some builders may not be as open about price increases, and prefer to hide the bad news until they present the owners with a nasty surprise... 😞

Edited March 14, 2022 by IanD

[David Mack]

But for those who haven't yet committed to a boat build the real question is whether prices are going to continue to rise, or whether they have plateaued at a new level.

[PeterF]

I got my new build in the water April 2021, lockdowns meant it was 7-8 months late the majority of the purchasing was completed before end 2020. During the final few visits the builder said he was having to start ramping up costs significantly for those in build during 2021 and those on the books but unstarted.

 

My son runs a business using MDF as the main raw material, this has rocketed in price and sourcing it has become a nightmare.

[Slow and Steady]

1 minute ago, IanD said:

 

Might be true for me, but maybe not for a lot of people who have saved up over the years to get their "dream boat" built to retire onto -- that's really who the warning was aimed at.

A timely warning too. It's not looking good for narrowboat builders if materials will make their product even less affordable. They must be enormously relieved every time they contact someone like yourself and hear you agreeing to carry on, I suspect despite what I wrote earlier that you will be in a minority.

[IanD]

4 minutes ago, David Mack said:

But for those who haven't yet committed to a boat build the real question is whether prices are going to continue to rise, or whether they have plateaued at a new level.

 

That rise was what Ricky predicted given (expected) further price rises this year -- it wouldn't be quite that high given today's prices, but he's putting in some margin to allow for things that haven't gone up yet but probably will... 😞

Edited March 14, 2022 by IanD

[IanD]

24 minutes ago, Slow and Steady said:

A timely warning too. It's not looking good for narrowboat builders if materials will make their product even less affordable. They must be enormously relieved every time they contact someone like yourself and hear you agreeing to carry on, I suspect despite what I wrote earlier that you will be in a minority.

 

Maybe so, he did ask if I wanted to lower the spec to save money or indeed carry on at all. I expect a few cancellations aren't a problem when your order book (like his) is currently around 2 years from order to delivery, it just brings the waiting times down a bit. A lot of cancellations could be a different matter, especially for custom boats under construction which might have features that don't suit everybody.

 

But it's likely that the number of cancellations will be lower for a builder like Finesse doing high-end (mostly series hybrid) boats, because anyone ordering one needs to have deep pockets anyway and -- like me -- can probably afford to pay the increase. The impact is likely to be bigger on the middle-range and especially budget constructors whose customers are by definition more price-sensitive and so less likely to be able to find the extra dosh -- also the steel for the hull will be a higher proportion of the total cost and this has gone up massively, so the percentage rise in total price will be even bigger... 😞

Edited March 14, 2022 by IanD

[GUMPY]

It will have the same effect as new car availability has had on second hand cars. The price of decent used boats will go up, this can only be good news for those already with boats😎

[MtB]

4 hours ago, Loddon said:

It will have the same effect as new car availability has had on second hand cars. The price of decent used boats will go up, this can only be good news for those already with boats😎

 

As I just posted in another thread, the price of the second hand electric MPVs three years old with 10k on the clock I've just been looking at, is the same as a new one with a nine month wait. 

[Cheshire cat]

I had a chat with a boatbuilder recently who told me they were considering fitting oars. The engine supply situation is none too good apparently.

[Arthur Marshall]

The supply issues are presumably largely a result of the import changes due to Brexit rather than any shortage of material at source, combined with the surge in general demand post pandemic shutdowns, which has largely caused the gas and oil shortages. The latter will be fairly short term, the former will get sorted as businesses get used to the new bureaucracy (once it gets a) hired b)trained c)starts working), though some shortages and certainly higher prices are likely to continue as foreign suppliers of heavy, bulk stuff like steel and timber concentrate on larger, cheaper and more convenient markets elsewhere. Factor in transport problems, driver shortages exacerbated by high fuel costs, and an extra fifty grand looks like getting off lightly.

Of course, if the war spreads, all our boats will be requisitioned and melted down for the steel to use in bombs and planes so it won't matter, anyway.

[Higgs]

If it can't be done without stuff from abroad, there's a lesson there. Or do we think Germany did it all right with their gas reliance. But since it's easier and more convenient to allow our manufacturing to be done by China, or elsewhere, we drop ourselves in it.  

 

We can't do everything, but I bet we could do more for ourselves. 

 

 

Edited March 15, 2022 by Higgs

[MtB]

41 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

Of course, if the war spreads, all our boats will be requisitioned and melted down for the steel to use in bombs and planes so it won't matter, anyway.

 

Point of Order, 

 

We don't make planes out of steel. Probably not bombs either, as its too heavy.

 

Sea Otter owners need to watch out though! 

[Mike Tee]

If the war spreads steel requisitioning won’t happen in the 20 minutes from start to (total) finish!🤢

[Tim Lewis]

14 hours ago, David Mack said:

But for those who haven't yet committed to a boat build the real question is whether prices are going to continue to rise, or whether they have plateaued at a new level.

British steel put their prices up by £250/ton this week!

 

[robtheplod]

Maybe this will keep the 2nd hand market buoyant?

[Alan de Enfield]

14 minutes ago, robtheplod said:

Maybe this will keep the 2nd hand market buoyant?

 

Some of the wrecks being sold at inflated prices could very soon become negatively-buoyant.

[Alan de Enfield]

8 hours ago, Arthur Marshall said:

The supply issues are presumably largely a result of the import changes due to Brexit

 

It seems strange that Brexit would be affecting the whole world from the USA to Australia & Asia. With pretty much every country experiencing inflationary prices and supply issues.

Do you think that the German inflation rate of 5.1% is because of Brexit ?
Is Germany tetering on the edge of a recession and being called 'the sick man of Europe' because of Brexit ?

 

[ditchcrawler]

9 hours ago, Higgs said:

If it can't be done without stuff from abroad, there's a lesson there. Or do we think Germany did it all right with their gas reliance. But since it's easier and more convenient to allow our manufacturing to be done by China, or elsewhere, we drop ourselves in it.  

 

We can't do everything, but I bet we could do more for ourselves. 

 

 

China are back in a major Covid lockdown. The biggest since the very first one. Nearly 30 Million Under Lockdown In China, Crisis Unprecedented (ndtv.com)

 

[Ray T]

Rising costs also affect the model boat world.

I am renovating the butty I won on Auntie Wainrights auction.

 

Went to the model shop yesterday, bought:

two planks of basswood, 400mm long

a length of 3mm square basswood

5 tins of paint - Humbrol size ones.

Reel of modelers masking tape.

 

The bill £28.33. 

 

They must have seen me coming.