Slow and Steady

I was trying not to exaggerate. Google thinks there are 4,000 boats on London canals and half have permanent moorings. Looks like CRT go for roughly 100 a year over the entire country and hope the example will have an effect? Sad unhappy little man. lol

You are ridiculous, go and pick at someone else. lol

I'm suggesting that viewing it as fraud is missing the point. It was not fraud, it was cultural misunderstanding based on "if I can get away with it, it's not my fault you're an idiot." I don't object actually, it's not racist and I don't suggest that at all, you just like to look for an angle to shoot from. Here's another. As young travellers in 1981 we arrived at Cairo airport at midnight. Taxi to the hotel - £50 - you must be joking! - No, it's a long way, £50. and so on. Daft enough to pay it? Fine. After 10 minutes - OK, I'll show you where to catch the bus and which bus to get on. I'll talk to the driver for you too so he knows where you want to get off. !0p. It's a cultural thing. EVERYTHING in Egypt was like that, it was a really fun place to be, I spent 2 months there, the people are LOVELY, but it's different. A fool and his money are easily parted on every single transaction, everything must be bartered for. In the UK we were used to going into a shop, seeing the price and paying it. One is not better. To notice and discuss that different cultures have different ways of looking at things is not racist. It would be pretty stupid to judge different cultures by one's own. That would be racist but there's no judgement from me.

Now you're being silly, it was a cultural thing. Do you have a problem with admitting there are different cultures around the world and some of them moved lock stock and barrel to the UK? I don't. A simple meeting of different cultures. I don't think you'd have lasted long running up a phone bill that was 20x your wages in a tiny company that didn't make that much profit in a month. Nor do I think you'd have been baffled that it was a problem, nor blamed the company for letting you near a phone. And that, was my point. Everyone's at it so it's no surprise that CCer's do the same in London without any guilt - it's normalised behaviour. 2,000 licences x £1,000 = £2M. They have the resources to police it but would rather put the money in the coffers. It's a choice.

I'm not a member and know nothing about their principles EXCEPT that apparently they get the blame for anything connected with CCers that isn't approved of. IF they are a group that try and bend the rules into "rights" then in principle I'm not in favour - as explained earlier this historically always ends up with rules being tightened unnecessarily to everyone's detriment. In general I believe people should follow the rules and be nice, but then I don't live in London and recognise that with the overcrowding there, those that do end up with nowhere to moor, just like the holiday people so what can they do? Yep, I know, move out of London and that would be what I'd do. No need to apologise, it's probably just another case of you deciding what I think so that you can argue with me to make your point. Exactly, I'm glad we agree on that. If those boats are licenced, the board must be satisfied? I refer you to the first part of this post. If they play by the rules - nowhere to moor. I'm afraid it's likely to be a case of if you can't beat them join them anarchy on the London canals. Before you incorrectly opine that I approve of all that and start arguing with me - NO I DON'T. Good, that's clear. What I do is recognise reality. That's the reality isn't it? You don't like it, 2,000 London CCers disagree and the board are satisfied with their behaviour. But you say - it's against the spirit of the rules. They say - sod the spirit, we're trying to have a life here and if we have to duck, dive and circumvent unenforceable rules to do it, them that's the rule's fault. A friend of mine used to employ the locals who were bought up in a different culture, a non-UK culture with a different religion, but they were the majority of the population, just the locals. So, one day he finds he had a £2,000 telephone bill (this is the early eighties). It turned out one of his apprentice employees had been phoning his relatives abroad. Just a young guy so my friend went to have it out with his father. The father could not understand his point of view. It was all my friend's fault for putting temptation in his way. He should have banned overseas calls/locked the telephone. What did he expect! To him, it was like leaving the keys in your Jag and expecting nobody to steal it. Maybe he had a point, sort of. Never trust anyone? And, there we have what the UK has become or is fast moving towards. It's acceptable for people and companies to cheat basically, unless they get caught or someone does something about it. Eon have a department set up absolutely to avoid repaying money they've managed to cheat their customers out of. I know this. It took me 3 months and threats to inform the fraud squad to move them from "we owe you nothing" to a £3,500 rebate. That was hard, hard work. I feel sorry for anyone who can't defend themselves against that lot and their ilk. Insurance companies do the same. Banks attract investment then immediately cut the rates. Cheating has been normalised. What's the point of all the above? I'm trying to say that you should not be surprised, in the UK today, that a large section of society do not give a sh!t about rules and life has taught them to be like this. It's a sorry state that we find ourselves in. Our politicians are not blameless in this drift away from the British notion of fair play, but it is what it is.

Do you know that these people haven't got CRTs blessing to do exactly that? Do you know that CRT don't point disabled people to these moorings as accessible for them? I don't, but I also don't know otherwise. Genuine question - why do you think they are able to do this? Why do you think CRT don't section 8 the lot of them? So why are you so reactionary towards it and why are you so sure I'm only referring to those on one side of this despite me saying otherwise? If you think it's so bad to use this term for both sides I think you should have a good look at the veiled insults you merrily throw around this forum towards anyone that doesn't agree with you and even those like myself that you imagine (yes I know what that means ). don't agree with you. Don't tell me what I think, that's purely your prejudices showing. And that's the point... My main argument with you revolves around you making assumptions about what I think, then arguing with them. It's insulting and I will not stop correcting your false assumptions. I have sympathy for anyone unable to find a mooring be they liveaboard CCers that don't move enough to satisfy you but apparently do move enough to satisfy the board, or those on holiday. I'm pretty sure the London mooring situation is a PITA for both.

Point me to these insults. You're building a straw man here Ian. In fact is patronising and insulting. Yes it is, where have I remotely suggested otherwise?

I'm promoting nothing other than giving some thought to the "other" side as it were, whichever side you take. By that, I don't mean stating their case then arguing against it. Both sides are displaying entitlement IMO which in both cases is unreasonable. I don't have a side so I disagree/agree with both. What I disagree with is taking intransigent positions and repeating them ad nauseum. Seems like the main problem is lack of short term moorings for those passing through. I have to admit I did a double take reading about the existence of 14 day visitors moorings! What the heck is the point of that? Does it just mean a stretch with bollards or rings? Hardly surprising that with the same time restrictions as any old part of the towpath + plus the irresistible bollards/rings that they are constantly full up! Is it possible that merely designating chunks of these as 48 hour would be helpful?

Ooooh - red rag to a bull to me. I'd have left it running all day until 7.59pm whether I needed to or not. Or I'd have repeatedly asked him to rephrase that until he got the message that he needed to ask nicely to have any hope of getting his wish. However, I think running generators within 1/2 mile of anyone else is a bit rude all things considered. Obnoxious things. A built in diesel one is ok, at least you're mainly annoying yourself.

You win some, you loose some.

I don't think it's that simple, when the previous owner applies for their refund CRT ask the date the boat changed hands, so you need to both agree the official date for that.

Yup, but applying it quite fairly to both "sides", if you took it to mean just the holiday bod's that's your point scoring deliberate misinterpretation at work. And, well, you try to hide it by quoting that it's other people using these terms, but you do that so often I can only assume you're keen to inflame and promote your "conflict"? I guess you would have no problem if I wrote "often referred to as entitled". If you expect others not to bite back, stop doing it yourself, you can't have your cake and eat it.

I think that's rather bad luck TBH, when I bought my latest boat the previous owner was refunded for the part month and I wasn't charged for it so between us we got a free month. I bet you did it on line, if you phoned them they'd almost certainly have suggested you start the licence at the beginning of the next month, they're not all bad. They insisted on that when I licenced mine as "it wouldn't be fair to charge me for an incomplete month". TBH I expected them to charge us both for that month, their attitude was a nice surprise. Have you tried speaking to them? I would expect they'd sort it out if you're pleasant and calm about it, but not if you rant.

Gosh, so many assumptions regarding one "type of boater" resenting another and being in conflict... What conflict? I suggest to you that the vast majority of boaters are not in conflict with one another in any way. It's only the entitled on both sides that are in any sort of conflict and even then, conflict is rather over-egging it isn't it? It's not a war, it's people finding it difficult to find a mooring in exceptionally high use areas whether they be liveaboard locals or on holiday. Frustrating perhaps but it's nobody's fault really, we all have equal right to moor on the towpath. If people were taking p1ss as much as claimed, CRT would be doing something about it but they're not are they? Even when it's a continuous line of boats that would be cheap and easy to police. You have to conclude that they are quite happy and just pay lip service to those that complain about it. The nearest they get is describing it as a "challenge".

I agree that it seems obvious to charge for tow-path mooring in LONDON. It's a special case. I can't see a problem doing this either, after all CRT have many towpath moorings that they rent out all over the system. There used to be many ways you could live a simple slow life quite legally. Cheap rent, council houses and low paid jobs actually used to pay enough to live on without going cap in hand to "social security". It's quite insulting to suggest like someone just oop there^ did that there are a million+ unfilled "jobs" so nobody has the excuse. Many of those jobs are part time, most of them do not pay enough to live on and leave you relying on tax credits or whatever the name for social security is nowadays so why the hell would anybody work 40 hours a week when their income would be exactly the same if they didn't work at all? OK, I would because I'm bright enough to rise up to better things but a lot of people are not, that's their level. Feck it, I wouldn't work either. Added to the fact that when that crappy job comes to a halt for whatever reason, there is a huge delay penalty getting back on the old king cole it's a big risk to take a low paid insecure job at all.