Flyboy Posted July 27, 2020 Report Share Posted July 27, 2020 52 minutes ago, bizzard said: I used to post heaps of rubbish on ere, but most of my fans seem to have gorn , It is quite boring now. Your posts always make me smile and brighten up a dull day. Please keep on posting. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athy Posted July 27, 2020 Report Share Posted July 27, 2020 7 minutes ago, IanD said: there's absolutely nothing wrong with vigorous discussion about subjects where people hold strong opinions, Absolutely correct - it is sometimes forgotten that we are a discussion forum. 8 minutes ago, IanD said: What I certainly never do (or try not to) is to resort to name-calling and personal abuse or accusing somebody of being something they're not, because that's a sign that you've lost the argument. Completely agree. My parents always said "When you resort to personal insults, you've lost" and, being Northern, they were of course never wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midnight Posted July 27, 2020 Report Share Posted July 27, 2020 40 minutes ago, IanD said: I blew my top and used some expletives. Being accused being willing to endanger others and being cavalier with their safety when you've left the house four times since March -- including once for my mum's death in a care home where we couldn't visit her or see her so she died alone, and once for her funeral -- made me see red and I lost it. Pot, kettle, black Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Arthur Marshall Posted July 27, 2020 Popular Post Report Share Posted July 27, 2020 Shoving the political stuff into its own little enclave was a great relief to me, as I, being a fairly political person for the last sixty years, tend to rise to the bait and feel I should get involved. Now I simply don't see it unless I occasionally visit for the hell of it - it's been obvious from the start that no-one goes on there to have their opinions challenged so everyone gets cross and upset and it gets either insulting or abusive. It's a democracy and everyone is entitled to their own opinions, though why social media should be expected to be a place for sensible discussions is beyond me. We should have learnt better by now. In this country, anyway, no-one's politics has the slightest effect on anything unless you live in a marginal constituency or are a member of the Cabinet. It's not worth getting upset about, it's not worth talking about. The rest of the site is concerned with either people's legitimate queries about why their engines aren't going bang or their lights have gone out, how nice/nasty it is in various bits of the canal system or what CRT have done right or wrong today. Some people are impatient with newbies, most aren't. I've had my boat for thirty years and still ask daft questions because there's a lot i don't know, and half of what I did I've forgotten, and I've learned a huge amount from the patience of the responders, some of whom have had to put things into very simple language for me. Some of them are people whose politics I simply don't understand, but so what? In real life, people's politics (or religion, for that matter) has very little effect on what they do or how they treat other people. Most people try to be kind when they can, and follow the consensus of the rules or the law when they think it's reasonable. A lot of the odd psuedo-political spats that spread over onto the general bit of the site is due to misplaced or misread sense of humour - jokes don't always work. The only thing that really matters about this site is that it's a place for boaters to meet and chat, ask questions and learn. A sort of on-line version of my old mooring which had a mixture of friendly engineers, long-time boaters of occasionally variable gender and refugees from broken marriages! Never cared about their politics, and don't about anyone's on here now. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray T Posted July 27, 2020 Report Share Posted July 27, 2020 51 minutes ago, nicknorman said: I think it depends on which aspects of the forum you frequent. Personally I tend to stick to technical subjects, and in those I haven’t really noticed a deterioration. There has always been an element of lack of patience with new posters, I don’t think this has got worse. What has perhaps got worse is the prevalence of new posters whose first post might be something like “I’ve just bought a boat to live on but the engine isn’t working, what is wrong with it?” and they then get a bit grumpy when asked for details. In other words, an increase in “entitlement” from new posters. IMO it is completely pointless visiting the political threads unless one’s sole aim is to have an argument for the sake of it. Political views are entrenched, and yes increasingly so since Brexit. You ain’t going to get anyone to change their views so it is pointless to try. Poet Samuel Butler, "He that complies against his will, Is of his own opinion still. Which he may adhere to, yet disown. For reasons to himself best known." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
restlessnomad Posted July 27, 2020 Report Share Posted July 27, 2020 (edited) 21 minutes ago, IanD said: Guilty as charged on being combative, if I have facts to back me up I won't give in just because somebody else shouts louder. Equally if I'm shown to be wrong -- by verifiable facts or expert opinion from somebody who really *does* know what they're talking about -- I'm perfectly happy to admit it and change my mind, that's called education. And as I said, there's absolutely nothing wrong with vigorous discussion about subjects where people hold strong opinions, that's life. What I certainly never do (or try not to) is to resort to name-calling and personal abuse or accusing somebody of being something they're not, because that's a sign that you've lost the argument. But sometimes it all gets a bit too much and I lash out in frustration, because nobody's perfect... ? [I could also point out that restlessnomad's post is a perfect example of playing the man, not the ball...] we all like to think that... I mean I have similar self image of myself but who knows... anyway this point (personal attack and bad vibes in general) has been raised by many, and I guess mods know and are doing their best... I would suggest you to breathe or paint or polish your brash... its just an internet forum Edited July 27, 2020 by restlessnomad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PD1964 Posted July 27, 2020 Report Share Posted July 27, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, bizzard said: I used to post heaps of rubbish on ere, but most of my fans seem to have gorn , It is quite boring now. But your one of the more knowledgeable posters that I take notice of when you do put your technical engine and engineering advice and experience’s on, unlike a lot of the posters that seem to post for the sake of posting to get their count up, so please keep posting. Edited July 27, 2020 by PD1964 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tree monkey Posted July 27, 2020 Report Share Posted July 27, 2020 2 minutes ago, Midnight said: Pot, kettle, black You could be right but you could also accept the explanation and move on, or of course have a polite and open discussion with the OP. No one is perfect, everyone makes mistakes 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
restlessnomad Posted July 27, 2020 Report Share Posted July 27, 2020 (edited) 26 minutes ago, mrsmelly said: I didnt see the post he refers to either and to be fair its mainly as he says the Political threads that peeps including myself get irate on. I havnt seen much, if any deterioration on other topics. Obvisously Biz is a bloomin eeejut and should be banned I dont find any juicy political threads anymore, they are boring coz same thing has been said many times by multiple people by page 5... I try to avoid clickbait loddon thread unless its on specific point... anyway people are passionate about politics, which is good. Only thing I dislike is this neat division of left vs right (and people self identifying as well as labelling others)... coz I find myself agreeing/disagreeing to either side based on issue. Edited July 27, 2020 by restlessnomad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanD Posted July 27, 2020 Author Report Share Posted July 27, 2020 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Midnight said: Pot, kettle, black Yes, I blew up, and I apologised for it. At least the blow-up was a direct Anglo-Saxon invitation to go forth and multiply, not accusing people of malice ? Again you're playing the man, not the ball -- please comment on the case I've put forward, not your personal opinion of me or what I've said or done. This method of attacking people is *exactly* what leads to many of the raging arguments I'm talking about. Edited July 27, 2020 by IanD 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicknorman Posted July 27, 2020 Report Share Posted July 27, 2020 1 minute ago, IanD said: Yes, I blew up, and I apologised for it. At least the blow-up was a direct Anglo-Saxon invitation to go forth and multiply, not accusing people of malice ? Again you're playing the man, not the ball -- please comment on the case I've put forward, not your personal opinion of me or what I've said or done. This is *exactly* what leads to many of the raging arguments I'm talking about. The problem is that the whole premise of your thread is to attack the posters‘ behaviour, not their views or arguments. I am struggling to see how that isn’t a personal attack, even though in this case the “personal” relates to a group of people not a specifically identified one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bizzard Posted July 27, 2020 Report Share Posted July 27, 2020 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanD Posted July 27, 2020 Author Report Share Posted July 27, 2020 (edited) 11 minutes ago, nicknorman said: The problem is that the whole premise of your thread is to attack the posters‘ behaviour, not their views or arguments. I am struggling to see how that isn’t a personal attack, even though in this case the “personal” relates to a group of people not a specifically identified one. Huh? I'm saying that there's nothing wrong with people having different views and arguing about them, but personal attacks and insults are out of order. Are you suggesting that because most of this behaviour comes from a few people, I'm somehow suppressing their views and being prejudiced against them when I ask them to stop it? I don't think their behaviour is acceptable and I suspect many others don't too, which is exactly why I made the post. I'm not saying those people are stupid, or evil, or shouldn't be allowed to be members, because that would be playing their game -- I'm just saying that CWDF would be a nicer place if they stopped farting loudly so much (except in the political forum where nobody has a sense of smell), so please could they cut down on their bean consumption and think of everybody else's noses ? Edited July 27, 2020 by IanD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanD Posted July 27, 2020 Author Report Share Posted July 27, 2020 (edited) 7 minutes ago, bizzard said: Anybody else remember building the massive shipyard crane that I think was on the cover of the biggest boxed Meccano set? Edited July 27, 2020 by IanD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicknorman Posted July 27, 2020 Report Share Posted July 27, 2020 4 minutes ago, IanD said: Huh? I'm saying that there's nothing wrong with people having different views and arguing about them, but personal attacks and insults are out of order. Are you suggesting that because most of this behaviour comes from a few people, I'm somehow suppressing their views and being prejudiced against them when I ask them to stop it? I don't think their behaviour is acceptable and I suspect many others don't too, which is exactly why I made the post. I'm not saying those people are stupid, or evil, or shouldn't be allowed to be members, because that would be playing their game -- I'm just saying that CWDF would be a nicer place if they stopped farting loudly so much (except in the political forum where nobody has a sense of smell), so please could they cut down on their bean consumption and think of everybody else's noses ? Put simply, you were objecting to some people’s posting style. When someone else criticised your own posting style in similar terms, you accused them of “playing the man not the ball”. That seems illogical to me, unless your logic is that it’s OK for you to criticise other people’ posting style, but it’s not ok for others to criticise yours. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Dr Bob Posted July 27, 2020 Popular Post Report Share Posted July 27, 2020 Let's just get rid of the political threads. They have just made the situation worse by splitting the left and right. Politics will creep into other threads but should be discouraged. Our focus should be on canals surely. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanD Posted July 27, 2020 Author Report Share Posted July 27, 2020 Just now, nicknorman said: Put simply, you were objecting to some people’s posting style. When someone else criticised your own posting style in similar terms, you accused them of “playing the man not the ball”. That seems illogical to me, unless your logic is that it’s OK for you to criticise other people’ posting style, but it’s not ok for others to criticise yours. You seem to be determined to misunderstand what I've said ? Discussions and arguments (and criticism) and facts, good. Bullying and SHOUTING and personal insults and "alternative facts", bad. How is this anything to do with "posting style"? And yet again, you seem to be criticising me, not what I said. Do you really not see the difference? 2 minutes ago, Dr Bob said: Let's just get rid of the political threads. They have just made the situation worse by splitting the left and right. Politics will creep into other threads but should be discouraged. Our focus should be on canals surely. yes please ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheshire cat Posted July 27, 2020 Report Share Posted July 27, 2020 17 minutes ago, bizzard said: Is Anderton boat lift really made from Meccano? I never knew that 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanD Posted July 27, 2020 Author Report Share Posted July 27, 2020 (edited) 1 minute ago, Cheshire cat said: Is Anderton boat lift really made from Meccano? I never knew that No, but the Forth railway bridge definitely is -- if you look carefully at the picture, you can see all the little holes in the cross-latticing... Edited July 27, 2020 by IanD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicknorman Posted July 27, 2020 Report Share Posted July 27, 2020 (edited) 11 minutes ago, IanD said: You seem to be determined to misunderstand what I've said ? Discussions and arguments (and criticism) and facts, good. Bullying and SHOUTING and personal insults and "alternative facts", bad. How is this anything to do with "posting style"? And yet again, you seem to be criticising me, not what I said. Do you really not see the difference? By my definition, bullying, shouting and personal insults presented in forum posts by repeat “offenders” surely relates to those people’s “posting styles”. Because we are not talking about the issues of the argument, we are talking about the way in which those arguments are presented, which I am summarising as “posting style”. Seems straightforward to me! And anyway, here we have it. “You seem determined to misunderstand what I say”. Rather than clarifying what you mean in case there is miscommunication, you resort to accusing me of appearing to deliberately misinterpret you, which is not the case. Playing the man not the ball as a first resort. Edited July 27, 2020 by nicknorman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmr Posted July 27, 2020 Report Share Posted July 27, 2020 The forum has been going downhill for a few years now, and Brexit has been a very emotional and divisive issue that does spill out from the politics section, but right now the country has gone into a strange post lockdown period of insanity where many aspects of routine civilised behaviour have gone out of the window and extreme selfishness and self importance have taken over. I really hope this is not a permanent change. Maybe this has got to the forum too and things will settle down before too long? ................Dave. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrsmelly Posted July 27, 2020 Report Share Posted July 27, 2020 9 minutes ago, Dr Bob said: Let's just get rid of the political threads. They have just made the situation worse by splitting the left and right. Politics will creep into other threads but should be discouraged. Our focus should be on canals surely. Stupid boy!! ? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naughty Cal Posted July 27, 2020 Report Share Posted July 27, 2020 1 minute ago, dmr said: The forum has been going downhill for a few years now, and Brexit has been a very emotional and divisive issue that does spill out from the politics section, but right now the country has gone into a strange post lockdown period of insanity where many aspects of routine civilised behaviour have gone out of the window and extreme selfishness and self importance have taken over. I really hope this is not a permanent change. Maybe this has got to the forum too and things will settle down before too long? ................Dave. I wouldn't hold your breath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bizzard Posted July 27, 2020 Report Share Posted July 27, 2020 10 minutes ago, Dr Bob said: Let's just get rid of the political threads. They have just made the situation worse by splitting the left and right. Politics will creep into other threads but should be discouraged. Our focus should be on canals surely. Alimentary canals too, after big gorging sessions such as Christmas dinners, Burger and Hot dog blowouts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanD Posted July 27, 2020 Author Report Share Posted July 27, 2020 (edited) 4 minutes ago, nicknorman said: By my definition, bullying, shouting and personal insults presented in forum posts by repeat “offenders” surely relates to those people’s “posting styles”. Because we are not talking about the issues of the argument, we are talking about the way in which those arguments are presented, which I am summarising as “posting style”. Seems straightforward to me! If my "lifestyle" involves killing other people and eating them, does that make it acceptable because it's my "lifestyle choice" and everyone has a right to choose? I suspect most people would disagree with you about this -- let's see if anyone can be bothered to comment... Edited July 27, 2020 by IanD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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