Postings on CWDF

[Midnight]

16 minutes ago, Athy said:

Well, to an extent: whilst it is always gratifying to see an apology, if you felt that you had written something culpable, perhaps you could have edited or deleted it, thereby avoiding the need to apologise. 

I suspect the irony of that post was lost on you - in which case I apologise - oops there I go again. :-) 

[Athy]

4 minutes ago, Midnight said:

I suspect the irony of that post was lost on you - in which case I apologise.

I saw no irony in the post - but my failure to do so is not something for which you need apologise. I do, however, appreciate your civility.

Edited July 27, 2020 by Athy

[nicknorman]

26 minutes ago, IanD said:

Please give an example of said twisting and misinterpreting. If I was wrong, I'll admit it and apologise.

 

If you can't give an example, you've proved my point.

You did it to me earlier in this thread, I pointed it out to you. You didn’t acknowledge it or apologise

Edited July 27, 2020 by nicknorman

[IanD]

1 minute ago, nicknorman said:

Yes you do seem to have double standards. I don’t doubt that it was a genuine well-meant attempt to try to address the nastiness of postings on CWDF, but without self-awareness (is that the right word for seeing yourself as others see you?) it was always doomed to failure.

Please point out an example of said double standards. As I've said several times, if I was wrong, I'll admit it.

 

Every post you make reinforces my point, which is that threads about subjects where opinions differ keep get turned round into accusations against people, this thread being a perfect example. Just because somebody is not perfect -- and who is? -- doesn't make what they're saying any less valid, or justify attacking them personally to "win the argument" instead of actually making a valid point in it.

 

Sadly, I'm well aware of how some others see me -- you included -- from their replies to my posts ?

1 minute ago, nicknorman said:

You did it to me earlier in this thread, I pointed it out to you. You didn’t acknowledge it or apologise

Where?

[Midnight]

9 minutes ago, Athy said:

I saw no irony in the post - but my failure to do so is not something for which you need apologise. I do, however, appreciate your civility.

And I appreciate your kind remarks - I really think the good folks of this forum demonstrate an exceptional level of civility.

[nicknorman]

2 hours ago, IanD said:

 

So I'm stumped. Why *do* you think such obnoxious "posting style" (bullying, SHOUTING, insults, "alternative facts") on CWDF is acceptable?

 

Where? There. You invented my opinion. I didn’t say or even hint that.

Edited July 27, 2020 by nicknorman

[Guest]

24 minutes ago, IanD said:

Does anyone else find it sad that a genuine well-meant attempt to try and reduce the nastiness of postings on CWDF has been turned round into adversarial accusations of hypocrisy, rather than discussing the issue?

Not really no.

 

TBH it was the first thing I thought when I read your first post in this thread this morning. I held back from saying so but now as you have asked the question.

 

You, by your own admission have a combative style (As do a few others including myself)  and you also can come across as brusque, direct and sometimes a bit rude and confrontational. (As do a few others including myself). My personal beef that winds me up is people posting completely inaccurate info. and then when this is pointed out they get all uppity. This includes people who deliberately twist or misrepresent what has been posted.

 

Whether on here, Facebook or other forms of social media when such a style is adopted it generates the same in return, then it just needs one misunderstanding or an accusation of something and the whole thing kicks off and escalates.

 

So to start a thread suggesting it's the fault of others and that your style plays little or no part in the tone of how the forum runs is 100% hypocritical yes.

 

I would suggest that the only way it would change would be if those of us who adopt a style that is likely to get the backs up of others just don't do it, but I think it's incredibly unlikely to happen.

 

Personally I now don't post in the Politics section because that is the breeding ground for disagreements that overspill into other sections. I have probably fallen out with people in there who are probably OK in real life, no matter what their politics are. I do look in from time to time and just continue to see the whole futility of people trying to change the extremely entrenched position of others which just reinforces the pointlessness of posting there.

 

 

Edited July 27, 2020 by The Happy Nomad

[IanD]

1 minute ago, The Happy Nomad said:

Not really no.

 

TBH it was the first thing I thought when I read your first post in this thread this morning. I held back from saying so but now as you have asked the question.

 

You, by your own admission have a combative style (As do a few others including myself)  and you also can come across as brusque, direct and sometimes a bit rude and confrontational. (As do a few others including myself). My personal beef that winds me up is people posting completely inaccurate info. and then when this is pointed out they get all uppity. This includes people who deliberately twist or misrepresent what has been posted.

 

Whether on here, Facebook or other forms of social media when such a style is adopted it generates the same in return, then it just needs one misunderstanding or an accusation of something and the whole thing kicks off and escalates.

 

So to start a thread suggesting it's the fault of others and that your style plays little no part in the tone of how the forum runs is hypocritical yes.

 

I would suggest that the only way it would change would be if those of us who adopt a style that is likely to get the backs up of others just don't do it, but I think it's incredibly unlikely to happen.

 

Personally I now don't post in the Politics section because that is the breeding ground for disagreements that overspill into other sections. I have probably fallen out with people in there who are probably OK in real life, no matter what their politics are. I do look in from time to time and just continue to see the whole futility of people trying to change the extremely entrenched position of others which just reinforces the pointlessness of posting there.

Your beef is my beef. Getting brusque and direct and sometimes a bit rude and confrontational is born out of frustration with people who make posts or statements that are not backed by the facts, or selectively post "facts" which back their position up but which are either years old or where a few minutes investigation would show that they're from an unreliable source -- and then when presented with real verifiable facts, throw up a smokescreen of more "alternative facts" to try and hide this. Yes I get snarky when people do this repeatedly. No it doesn't just happen in the political forums. But this is nothing compared to how annoyed I get when people employ the "insult instead of debate" tactics that I've been referring to in this thread -- if they did this in real life they'd probably get punched in pretty short order, but they'll say things sitting behind a keyboard that they'd never say to somebody's face.

 

Second point -- what I said is that is a shame that in so many cases debate on CWDF is turned into personal attacks on people as a way of "winning" an argument. I always try and make an argument based on facts or my opinions (which I try and distinguish from facts), and think that if you descend to insults you've lost the argument. Exactly where is the hypocrisy here?

 

[and before you say "you're a hypocrite because you make personal attacks on people too" -- as I've now offered several times, point out to me where I did this and -- if I did it -- I'll apologise]

 

[IanD]

Having started this thread in the hope that it might prompt a discussion that could lead to posters on CWDF being nicer to each other, help persuade new posters stay and more experienced ones not to leave, my conclusion is that -- as some have said -- it was, sadly, a waste of time.

 

The replies to this thread have demonstrated exactly what I was saying far more clearly than I did -- some people on here are more interested in sniping at people, making accusations, and trying to get a rise out of them than making positive suggestions. I should have expected this, being mean to people is much easier than problem-solving -- especially if you deny that the problem exists, and you're part of it.

 

Shame ?

[Naughty Cal]

[IanD]

1 minute ago, Naughty Cal said:

Very helpful, and proves my point...

[Naughty Cal]

I'm not sure that you have a point to make despite taking a whole day over attempting to make it.

[Arthur Marshall]

3 hours ago, Dr Bob said:

Let's just get rid of the political threads. They have just made the situation worse by splitting the left and right. Politics will creep into other threads but should be discouraged. Our focus should be on canals surely.

I'd go for that.

[tree monkey]

9 minutes ago, IanD said:

Having started this thread in the hope that it might prompt a discussion that could lead to posters on CWDF being nicer to each other, help persuade new posters stay and more experienced ones not to leave, my conclusion is that -- as some have said -- it was, sadly, a waste of time.

 

The replies to this thread have demonstrated exactly what I was saying far more clearly than I did -- some people on here are more interested in sniping at people, making accusations, and trying to get a rise out of them than making positive suggestions. I should have expected this, being mean to people is much easier than problem-solving -- especially if you deny that the problem exists, and you're part of it.

 

Shame ?

If it helps I think you have made a very valid point, none of use are perfect and sometimes we all get grumpy or post stuff that can be misinterpreted, that doesn't devalue the point you are trying to make

 

I do think there is a unpleasant undertone running through the forum at the moment 

[IanD]

14 minutes ago, Naughty Cal said:

I'm not sure that you have a point to make despite taking a whole day over attempting to make it.

Go back and read my first post. Ignore everything that follows (except the Meccano posts, obviously).

 

Do you agree with it, or do you think that this kind of posting doesn't happen today and CWDF is indeed friendly towards new and old posters?

[nicknorman]

18 minutes ago, IanD said:

Having started this thread in the hope that it might prompt a discussion that could lead to posters on CWDF being nicer to each other, help persuade new posters stay and more experienced ones not to leave, my conclusion is that -- as some have said -- it was, sadly, a waste of time.

 

The replies to this thread have demonstrated exactly what I was saying far more clearly than I did -- some people on here are more interested in sniping at people, making accusations, and trying to get a rise out of them than making positive suggestions. I should have expected this, being mean to people is much easier than problem-solving -- especially if you deny that the problem exists, and you're part of it.

 

Shame ?

Oh the irony is delicious and fascinating! I am unsure whether you are doing it deliberately. I would really like to think you are.
 

So your above post can be summarised that you proposed a point, some people disagreed with you, some people felt you were part of the problem. Your response to that is to accuse them being “more interested in sniping at people, making accusations, and trying to get a rise out of them than making positive suggestions.“ and that  “I should have expected this, being mean to people is much easier than problem-solving.”

 

Would these be attacks on the people in question rather than what they had to say on the matter, by any chance?

 

Yes, delicious irony!

[IanD]

4 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

Oh the irony is delicious and fascinating! I am unsure whether you are doing it deliberately. I would really like to think you are.
 

So your above post can be summarised that you proposed a point, some people disagreed with you, some people felt you were part of the problem. Your response to that is to accuse them being “more interested in sniping at people, making accusations, and trying to get a rise out of them than making positive suggestions.“ and that  “I should have expected this, being mean to people is much easier than problem-solving.”

 

Would these be attacks on the people in question rather than what they had to say on the matter, by any chance?

 

Yes, delicious irony!

Every post you make simply confirms that every word of what I said was true. Please keep it up... ?

 

[congratulations, you've joined my list of invisible people -- to which I'm sure you'll make a sarky reply, but don't do it for my benefit 'cos I won't see it]

Edited July 27, 2020 by IanD

[Arthur Marshall]

I keep clear of the politics bit now, mostly, as I consider it immoral not to call out attitudes or posts that I find unacceptable. As my opinion is very unlikely to affect the perpetrators in any way, it's pointless, and as I'm never going to associate with people who hold such views in real life, the whole thing is a waste of time, as is that whole bit of the forum. It did briefly serve as a valid discussion area on one or two matters, but as no-one is very interested then, those threads are short.

We should go back to the moderated ban on politics and religion. The way we vote and the gods we do or don't believe in have bugger all to do with the way we float our boats. Plenty of forums about to discuss the other stuff.

PS Bizzard told me how to fix my fridge, and I didn't need Meccano, either. I had Primus Engineering when I was a kid, anyway. It was awful.

Edited July 27, 2020 by Arthur Marshall

[Guest]

I had a feeling this thread would be popular after reading the first few lines. 

 

After reading a few more I feel no need to continue. 

 

 

[IanD]

1 minute ago, Rumsky said:

I had a feeling this thread would be popular after reading the first few lines. 

 

After reading a few more I feel no need to continue. 

 

 

Sadly, me too. I'm glad everyone was so helpful with ideas about how to make things better, it really made it all worthwhile... ?

[system 4-50]

Most of the troublesome threads would lose their sting if all posters adopted the practice of replying once and once only to contradict posts they disagreed with, and then left them hanging. Its the not letting go that causes the problems.   

[IanD]

2 minutes ago, system 4-50 said:

Most of the troublesome threads would lose their sting if all posters adopted the practice of replying once and once only to contradict posts they disagreed with, and then left them hanging. Its the not letting go that causes the problems.   

Indeed, along with people who always want to have the last word ?  ? ?  (is that enough emojis to make it obvious?)

[Athy]

4 hours ago, MartinC said:

I am not a frequent poster and try not to get into the sort of threads that are being talked about here.

That said my own experience has been that a good number of threads go "off topic" and then degenerate.

Could members consider the use of private messaging as more appropriate than a forum slanging match?

P.M.s are quite frequently used, both to make complimentary and less complimentary points, but they and forum posts do not need to be mutually exzclusive.

25 minutes ago, IanD said:

Sadly, me too. I'm glad everyone was so helpful with ideas about how to make things better, it really made it all worthwhile... ?

Your thread has generated over 100 posts in the space of an afternoon. Some have been supportive, others have not agreed with you (which, as you say, is fine), a couple of helpful suggestions have indeed been put forward, and we've had a bit of vintage bizzardry.

 

Could have been far worse, in fact.

[restlessnomad]

20 minutes ago, system 4-50 said:

Most of the troublesome threads would lose their sting if all posters adopted the practice of replying once and once only to contradict posts they disagreed with, and then left them hanging. Its the not letting go that causes the problems.   

I agree with you.. although I do tend to clarify once again if I could not say it correctly first time.. I usually give up by 3rd time or so... anyway the goal is to get my point across not to force others to submit to my way of thinking... 

 

however, the level of hypocrisy and and lack of self awareness is staggering...

anyway OP is digging deeper... and deeper.. hope it feels good ?

[IanD]

1 minute ago, restlessnomad said:

I agree with you.. although I do tend to clarify once again if I could not say it correctly first time.. I usually give up by 3rd time or so... anyway the goal is to get my point across not to force others to submit to my way of thinking... 

 

however, the level of hypocrisy and and lack of self awareness is staggering...

anyway OP is digging deeper... and deeper.. hope it feels good ?

It would have felt much better had there been more helpful/useful comments. Still, every post like yours proves my point, it's much easier to snipe than be constructive... ?

13 minutes ago, Athy said:

P.M.s are quite frequently used, both to make complimentary and less complimentary points, but they and forum posts do not need to be mutually exzclusive.

Your thread has generated over 100 posts in the space of an afternoon. Some have been supportive, others have not agreed with you (which, as you say, is fine), a couple of helpful suggestions have indeed been put forward, and we've had a bit of vintage bizzardry.

 

Could have been far worse, in fact.

Worth it for the bizzardry, if nothing else ?