ditchcrawler Posted August 19, 2018 Report Share Posted August 19, 2018 1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said: Does it matter - how many canal boats are fitted with AIS receivers ? https://www.vesselfinder.com/ I keep an eye on where my mate is in his yacht Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Bob W Posted August 20, 2018 Report Share Posted August 20, 2018 3 weeks or so ago we met about 10 canoeists midway through Blisworth Tunnel. I couldn't work out what was happening at first. I could see these flashing dots of light but it wasn't until I was almost on them I saw the silhouettes of paddles. I slowed down as much as possible whilst still retaining some control to avoid crushing the idiots, but as I passed they were shouting about my speed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Thornton Posted August 20, 2018 Author Report Share Posted August 20, 2018 It wasn’t just the tunnel, there seemed to be more canoeists than I’ve seen before and there are a lot of tight bends on the Llangollen with at least a couple where the canoe should really be carried around. At Irish Bridge 27, for example, it’s difficult to see an oncoming boat, no chance of spotting canoes unless someone is in the front cockpit. In the past, canoeists have been encountered in well ordered and competently led groups but that wasn’t the case yesterday. I think CRT need to quickly examine the equipment and training given to these groups, before it all ends in tears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cuthound Posted August 20, 2018 Report Share Posted August 20, 2018 (edited) They are a danger elsewhere other than tunnels. On a recent trip up the Shroppie i was overtaken by two canoeists just as i was entering the narrow cutting a couple of miles from the Autherley Junction end. Although i periodically look behind, they approached so fast that I hadn't seen them The first one overtook me on my starboard side so I moved over to give him more room, only to hear a shout from my port side, where another one was trying to overtake. If I hadn't had quickly engaged full reverse, they risked being squashed because they had left overtaking so late, because my bow was about to enter the narrows. Edited August 20, 2018 by cuthound Spillung Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rusty69 Posted August 20, 2018 Report Share Posted August 20, 2018 The only solution is canal sharing. A number of days a week should be given over to less robust craft,Including inflatable kayaks, canoes, sit on kayaks,stand up paddle boards, inflatable dinghies etc. On these days.Narrowboats, widebeams, cruisers and other solid boats should not be permitted to move. Sorted! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Thornton Posted August 20, 2018 Author Report Share Posted August 20, 2018 It’s a bit like the debate with cyclists on busy roads, common sense needed on both sides. As a start, I suggest: 1. A minimum set of equipment for tunnels. I.e. a decent sized torch with a firm fixing and a loud whistle. 2. A training protocol for all canoe hire establishments and maps marked clearly with danger points. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rusty69 Posted August 20, 2018 Report Share Posted August 20, 2018 3. A training protocol for all narrowboat hire establishments and maps marked clearly with danger points. 4. To be extended to all private boats. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Thornton Posted August 20, 2018 Author Report Share Posted August 20, 2018 4 minutes ago, rusty69 said: 3. A training protocol for all narrowboat hire establishments and maps marked clearly with danger points. 4. To be extended to all private boats. Tongue in cheek I know, but this is already in place. All the hire boats we have met have been driven carefully and responsibly and the various maps all mention the tricky bits. And when two narrowboats do collide then it’s only usually the paintwork that suffers ...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Thornton Posted August 20, 2018 Author Report Share Posted August 20, 2018 Have a read of this if you want an insight what’s really happening out there ......... http://www.songofthepaddle.co.uk/forum/showthread.php/8609-Canoeing-in-tunnels Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WotEver Posted August 20, 2018 Report Share Posted August 20, 2018 14 hours ago, rusty69 said: I shall go invent rustys kayak nav light hat. A green and red light and a bobble hat should suffice for the prototype.Mmmm, where to stick the battery? Some modern Li-Ion cells are long and thin with a circular cross section... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horace42 Posted August 20, 2018 Report Share Posted August 20, 2018 I recall from my early days, when first introduced to the waterways at Hampton-on-Thames in a canoe, was that canoes had to 'give way' to just about everything on the water. A fairly simple rule - and wise to observe - considering canoes in those days were fragile wood and canvas structures and easily punctured or squashed. Locks had rollers that had to be use by small craft, and even if the lock-keeper let you enter the lock when open for larger craft, there was the added risk of being scaled by boiling hot water spluttering from the exhausts of motor boats when waiting alongside them. I don't know about canoe rules today - but the 'tunnel' situation here was solved, after a heated argument it seems, by the canoe being 'carried' around the narrowboat - as would have been the case without a second thought according to the rules when I started out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RLWP Posted August 20, 2018 Report Share Posted August 20, 2018 47 minutes ago, Peter Thornton said: Have a read of this if you want an insight what’s really happening out there ......... http://www.songofthepaddle.co.uk/forum/showthread.php/8609-Canoeing-in-tunnels well, it was in 2008 anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jen-in-Wellies Posted August 20, 2018 Report Share Posted August 20, 2018 The canoeist will need a powerful light, as bright as the typical boat tunnel light (excluding the silly bulldozer vaporising LED things some boats have now). A boater approaching a tunnel is going to have daylight adapted eyes, particularly on a sunny summer day and just isn't going to see a glow worm torch inside. Lots of decently powerful LED torches around now. Canoe mounted, rather than head mounted. A head mounted torch is moving around a lot and is harder for a boat skipper to interpret. Have had a couple of run ins with canoes on narrow bends and bridge holes where some quick avoiding action was needed to reduce the risk of squishing them. I don't think they realise just how much canoe squashing power there is in a 20 ton narrowboat even if it is only going a couple of miles an hour. Jen 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Mack Posted August 20, 2018 Report Share Posted August 20, 2018 18 minutes ago, Jen-in-Wellies said: The canoeist will need a powerful light, as bright as the typical boat tunnel light (excluding the silly bulldozer vaporising LED things some boats have now). A boater approaching a tunnel is going to have daylight adapted eyes, particularly on a sunny summer day and just isn't going to see a glow worm torch inside. Lots of decently powerful LED torches around now. Canoe mounted, rather than head mounted. A head mounted torch is moving around a lot and is harder for a boat skipper to interpret. Have had a couple of run ins with canoes on narrow bends and bridge holes where some quick avoiding action was needed to reduce the risk of squishing them. I don't think they realise just how much canoe squashing power there is in a 20 ton narrowboat even if it is only going a couple of miles an hour. Jen One of those aerosol air horns would help too. A narrow boater isn't necessarily going to hear a shout or a whistle over the noise of a diesel engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rusty69 Posted August 20, 2018 Report Share Posted August 20, 2018 Fluorescent painted kayaks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nb Innisfree Posted August 20, 2018 Report Share Posted August 20, 2018 20 minutes ago, Jen-in-Wellies said: A boater approaching a tunnel is going to have daylight adapted eyes, particularly on a sunny summer day and just isn't going to see a glow worm torch inside. Jen An eye patch would solve that problem. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBiscuits Posted August 20, 2018 Report Share Posted August 20, 2018 1 minute ago, nb Innisfree said: An eye patch would solve that problem. Arrr! It would. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X Alan W Posted August 20, 2018 Report Share Posted August 20, 2018 (edited) 16 hours ago, cereal tiller said: it would be ok for Canoes to go through Tunnels as long as they were pulled by a Horse ,Boaters could hear the Clip-Clop and become aware of their Presence. The horse would need several canoes for him/her self for tunnels with no towpaths? Edited August 20, 2018 by X Alan W Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike55 Posted August 20, 2018 Report Share Posted August 20, 2018 30 minutes ago, X Alan W said: The horse would need several canoes for him/her self for tunnels with no towpaths? Four, one for each leg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rusty69 Posted August 20, 2018 Report Share Posted August 20, 2018 1 minute ago, Mike55 said: Four, one for each leg. Horses have 6 legs.Two at the back and fore at the front! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john6767 Posted August 20, 2018 Report Share Posted August 20, 2018 5 hours ago, Big Bob W said: 3 weeks or so ago we met about 10 canoeists midway through Blisworth Tunnel. I couldn't work out what was happening at first. I could see these flashing dots of light but it wasn't until I was almost on them I saw the silhouettes of paddles. I slowed down as much as possible whilst still retaining some control to avoid crushing the idiots, but as I passed they were shouting about my speed. Of course Bilisworth is not on the list of tunnels that canoes are allowed to use, so they should not have been there at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cuthound Posted August 20, 2018 Report Share Posted August 20, 2018 5 hours ago, Peter Thornton said: It’s a bit like the debate with cyclists on busy roads, common sense needed on both sides. As a start, I suggest: 1. A minimum set of equipment for tunnels. I.e. a decent sized torch with a firm fixing and a loud whistle. 2. A training protocol for all canoe hire establishments and maps marked clearly with danger points. 5 hours ago, rusty69 said: 3. A training protocol for all narrowboat hire establishments and maps marked clearly with danger points. 4. To be extended to all private boats. Or just fit front and rear facing torpedo tubes to your narrowboat ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rusty69 Posted August 20, 2018 Report Share Posted August 20, 2018 1 minute ago, cuthound said: Or just fit front and rear facing torpedo tubes to your narrowboat ? To fit the kayak in if you hit one? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Bob W Posted August 20, 2018 Report Share Posted August 20, 2018 1 hour ago, john6767 said: Of course Bilisworth is not on the list of tunnels that canoes are allowed to use, so they should not have been there at all. And clearly signposted as such. Someone moored just after the south portal told us that one of the group bottled out and walked over the top. The only sane one in the group. The rest clearly had some kind of death wish! This was the middle of the day too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detling Posted August 20, 2018 Report Share Posted August 20, 2018 6 hours ago, rusty69 said: The only solution is canal sharing. A number of days a week should be given over to less robust craft,Including inflatable kayaks, canoes, sit on kayaks,stand up paddle boards, inflatable dinghies etc. On these days.Narrowboats, widebeams, cruisers and other solid boats should not be permitted to move. Sorted! Remember CRT want a series of static ponds separated by sealed locks so we can't damage them. Only canoes inflatables and paddleboards will be able to move in the shallow water and all canalboats are to be residential paying to be there. Nice and cheap to maintain and a decent revenue to pay stakeholders and bonuses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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