Letting water down to replenish a low pound.

[Horace42]

I  would have tried to fill the empty pound to a level just enough to float my boat, but also to avoid hassle, I would (or a member of crew) have gone on to the next pound up to open those paddles to let more water down to a level enough to keep the farmer/moorers happy - or in an amicable way to get the moorers to do it for me - they know just how much water is needed in their pound.

 

This could be a long thread if riparian rights are to be argued.

 

 

 

 

[Athy]

We're off to France in a week or so and would love to see an end to the low pound by then.

[Alan de Enfield]

16 minutes ago, Athy said:

We're off to France in a week or so and would love to see an end to the low pound by then.

Shifts in the political situation in Italy are to thank for the strengthening sterling as the country faces a shock veto from the country's president Sergio Mattarella over a minister who held strongly eurosceptic views, according to experts.

Consequently the financial markets enjoyed a brief "relief rally" this morning after the shock move.

Today’s exchange rate is at €1.145.

 

The political and economic situation in Italy is such that forecasts are that it will destroy the Eurozone and there are calls for the Euro to be abolished.

Alternatively Italy will leave the Zone causing even greater Chaos.

The EU state that Italy leaving would be even more destabilising than Brexit.

 

The Hungarian-born currency speculator, George Soros, now a US citizen, became known as the "man who broke the Bank of England" after he bet against the pound in 1992, forcing the UK out of the European Exchange Rate Mechanism.

"In the meantime, the EU needs to transform itself into an association which nations like Britain would want to join."

That meant abandoning the requirement for "ever closer union" between member states and the stipulation that they should all work towards joining the euro, he argued.

But Brexit was not the only issue threatening the future of the EU, said Mr Soros in his speech, claiming the bloc was facing "an existential crisis - everything that could go wrong has gone wrong".

Edited May 30, 2018 by Alan de Enfield

[Athy]

Bravo the Italians! Keep it up.

[zenataomm]

4 hours ago, Tigerr said:

 

I am not going to be specific about the location!

Why not?

 

The issue of can you or can't you, is again one of those questions you don't ask if you can't take the answer.  Nobody at C&RT will back you in case you have an accident and then sue them. I've always done it on the basis of custom and tradition.  I'm sure nobody at C&RT would prefer to send out a team who are going to do exactly what you can do.  Just don't cause damage.

 

As far as noisy protestors are concerned. I don't take orders from people with no authority.  The clue that he has no authority is the fact that he's shouting and blowing off.

As a publican I learned years ago that those who make a noise tend not to have the courage to get close enough for you to hurt them.  The ones I learned to be wary were the quiet ones who got close or even beckoned you with a finger and an expressionless face.  They are in control of their emotions and are confident enough to know what they're doing, and may not be blustering.

 

We all carry phones, they take pictures and photos and record conversations as well.

 

 

[David Mack]

4 hours ago, nicknorman said:

 

The only thing to say when letting water down, is not to rush it. One paddle open, or both paddles 1/2 open, seems to be CRT’s procedure. If you set up too much flow it’s easy to wash silt into the lock area / behind the gate etc. which then causes problems.

 

And keep the gates shut at both ends of the lock while you let water down. That way you can't wash dirt onto the cill which might prevent the gates shutting properly. 

[Ray T]

1 hour ago, PaulJ said:

Was that taken near Walsden Ray T?

Between Hollings Lock and Travis Mill Lock.

 

Another further towards summit. Got stuck here too. Ironic thing was it rained every day of our holiday.

I seem to remember reading somewhere that originally there were seven reservoirs feeding the Rochdale, now there are two.

Edited May 30, 2018 by Ray T

[PaulJ]

14 minutes ago, Ray T said:

Between Hollings Lock and Travis Mill Lock.

Thought so- this was taken early April when most of the country had either just come off or was still on Reds ! 

[Paul C]

Personally I'd never head out of a lock into a pound which is obviously too low - while in the lock 1) you're floating and 2) its much easier to get on and off without getting wet feet 3) there is no danger of contacting the cill in the lock which is leading to the too-low pound - a boat has sunk trying this (it was a while ago, on the HNC).

 

While there is no specific regulation about water, running too much down, or causing further damage (of something you don't know about) could be an issue. But then since in 99% of cases, all that CRT would do is run water down anyway, I've always been of the opinion that you'd run some water down and sort yourself out so long as it didn't leave other pounds critically low due to your actions.

Edited May 30, 2018 by Paul C

[Scholar Gypsy]

6 hours ago, nicknorman said:

He is talking utter rubbish. Next time, call the police. And video his ranting. And complain to CRT. Bullies need to be stood up to.

 

The only thing to say when letting water down, is not to rush it. One paddle open, or both paddles 1/2 open, seems to be CRT’s procedure. If you set up too much flow it’s easy to wash silt into the lock area / behind the gate etc. which then causes problems.

And also - sorry for a statement of the bleeding obvious - do this with all the gates firmly shut. 

It's potentially very dangerous to leave gates open - someone leans on the balance beam a bit and next thing a small child is clouted by the end of the balance beam.

[Boater Sam]

I was instructed by a BW locky long ago that to avoid running silt in behind the bottom gates the lock should be worked conventionally repeatedly, i.e. fill the lock, close top paddles, open bottom paddles, drain lock, close paddles and repeat,

Its all a bit academic for us in Stanthorne at present, we have no canal to fill, and no lock to work.

 

I like folk who shout at me, I just smile as I walk towards them, they don't bother me at all.

Edited May 30, 2018 by Boater Sam
smellings

[David Mack]

9 minutes ago, Boater Sam said:

I was instructed by a BW locky long ago that to avoid running silt in behind the bottom gates the lock should be worked conventionally repeatedly, i.e. fill the lock, close top paddles, open bottom paddles, drain lock, close paddles and repeat,

Its all a bit academic for us in Stanthorne at present, we have no canal to fill, and no lock to work.

 

I like folk who shout at me, I just smile as I walk towards them, they don't bother me at all.

But why will that wash in less silt than having paddles open at both ends and all gates shut? It's also a lot slower!

[WotEver]

1 minute ago, David Mack said:

But why will that wash in less silt than having paddles open at both ends and all gates shut? It's also a lot slower!

Might the highlighted bit answer your question?  I don't know, simply asking.

[Paul C]

I thought that too but not really. Its slower because there's periods (ie in between when the paddles are open) when the water is flowing less quickly. But when the paddles are open, the rate of flow is the same as the mid-point during lock filling/emptying (the whole lock will eventually stabilise to approx half full) so I can't see how this rate would wash more silt down etc.

[Boater Sam]

You miss the point. At no time are both top and bottom paddles open. Its not just that there is less silt wash down but  that it is not deposited behind the bottom gates preventing them being opened fully. I didn't write the book, only had it read to me. Sorry for passing it on, didn't want an argument, I;ll just smile!

[Midnight]

If it were me I'd just ignore the farmer or invite him to call whoever he liked and carry on. If you need water to make progress you need water  end off. If he got violent I'd call the police.

[David Mack]

26 minutes ago, Boater Sam said:

You miss the point. At no time are both top and bottom paddles open. Its not just that there is less silt wash down but  that it is not deposited behind the bottom gates preventing them being opened fully. I didn't write the book, only had it read to me. Sorry for passing it on, didn't want an argument, I;ll just smile!

Why is there less silt washdown? Why is it less likely to be deposited behind bottom gates?

The concern with letting water down with gates open is (apart from the danger of sudden slamming of the gate) is that silt gets deposited on the cill, preventing the gate from closing fully, and not any particular concern about getting it behind the gates.

[Neil2]

7 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

A sweeping statement if i may say, and demonstrably not true in many cases. 

As the ranting farmer was quick to play the CRT card I think it's a safe assumption he's paying a fee for his mooring site.

[Boater Sam]

You miss the point. At no time are both top and bottom paddles open. Its not just that there is less silt wash down but  that it is not deposited behind the bottom gates preventing them being opened fully. I didn't write the book, only had it read to me. Sorry for passing it on, didn't want an argument, I;ll just smile!

 

Still missing the point David, the lock is worked as if there was a boat in it....... Got it now?

[David Mack]

26 minutes ago, Boater Sam said:

Still missing the point David, the lock is worked as if there was a boat in it....... Got it now?

 

Yes I understand what you are saying.  But I don't see why having paddles open only at one end at a time causes the amount of silt brought down to be less, or affects where that silt might be deposited in the lock. (All gates will be closed either way).

[Paul C]

In fairness to Sam, I think its something he was told by CRT without it being fully explained to him. But the actual details of why it might not be a good idea, or benign, is quite subtle and probably depends on the flow characteristics of each particular lock, partly, too, to justify the "prevent silt buildup" hypothesis.

[Cheese]

8 minutes ago, David Mack said:

 

Yes I understand what you are saying.  But I don't see why having paddles open only at one end at a time causes the amount of silt brought down to be less, or affects where that silt might be deposited in the lock. (All gates will be closed either way).

Normal lock operation essentially involves filling, or emptying, a stationary pond of water.  Having paddles open at both ends would create a continuous flow through the lock, and I am quite prepared to believe that this might bring more silt through the lock, and also to create flows or eddies that might deposit it in different places.  (Look at what happens when there is an unexpected breach in a bank - the continuous flow rapidly moves a large quantity of silt).

[MtB]

54 minutes ago, Neil2 said:

As the ranting farmer was quick to play the CRT card I think it's a safe assumption he's paying a fee for his mooring site.

 

I don't think that's a safe assumption at all. We don't know who the farmer is. 

[matty40s]

When moving boats over the years, if i had to report and then wait for Bw or CRT to come and fill locks every time I found a low pound, I would probably have found my number blocked by them by now. Starting early and finishing late, you have to sort problems out yourself or you would never get the job done. Atherstone locks are a classic example, the 2nd pound down by the allotments used to drain overnight for years, a single paddle open each end on both the top locks got you moving within 20 minutes. I did come up there once early morning and got told to stay in lock 6 until BW came as it had been reported. I carried on up to lock 4 with much histrionics and wailing against me, and then sorted the usual issue before 7.45am. I exited the top lock - with the previously incapacitated other boat ahead - before anyone from CRT arrrived.

30 minutes ago, Cheese said:

Normal lock operation essentially involves filling, or emptying, a stationary pond of water.  Having paddles open at both ends would create a continuous flow through the lock, and I am quite prepared to believe that this might bring more silt through the lock, and also to create flows or eddies that might deposit it in different places.  (Look at what happens when there is an unexpected breach in a bank - the continuous flow rapidly moves a large quantity of silt).

There would be no more flow from a single paddle open at top and at the bottom - probably much less than if both paddles were opened to empty a lock  - as the lock tends to level at half full as you fill the pounds below. I have done this in the hundreds of times.

[MtB]

14 minutes ago, matty40s said:

When moving boats over the years, if i had to report and then wait for Bw or CRT to come and fill locks every time I found a low pound, I would probably have found my number blocked by them by now. Starting early and finishing late, you have to sort problems out yourself or you would never get the job done. Atherstone locks are a classic example, the 2nd pound down by the allotments used to drain overnight for years, a single paddle open each end on both the top locks got you moving within 20 minutes. I did come up there once early morning and got told to stay in lock 6 until BW came as it had been reported. I carried on up to lock 4 with much histrionics and wailing against me, and then sorted the usual issue before 7.45am. I exited the top lock - with the previously incapacitated other boat ahead - before anyone from CRT arrrived.

There would be no more flow from a single paddle open at top and at the bottom - probably much less than if both paddles were opened to empty a lock  - as the lock tends to level at half full as you fill the pounds below. I have done this in the hundreds of times.

 

I've done it quite a few times too but one time was especially memorable. It was in Brum, I think during BCN Challenge, and just as I'd drawn some paddles a BW/CRT bod pitched up saying he'd been called out to the empty pound and gave me a right royal lecture about never filling an empty pound for myself, I was always to call BW/CRT. 

 

I let him finish his lecture then resolved to completely ignore him. 

 

This was the only time I've ever experienced a BW/CRT employee with less than exemplary manners.