March of the Widebeams

[furnessvale]

28 minutes ago, Captain Pegg said:

Given widebeams can access the marina along the north Oxford should those craft be allowed a booked passage along what is officially a narrow canal for the purpose of initial access - and when sold on - or should they be craned into and out of the marina?

 

JP

No.  The ban should be absolute, although I am prepared to make allowances for those unfortunates conned into being in this situation already.

 

Perhaps a one way passage back to the GU before the narrows are installed.

[Jen-in-Wellies]

1 hour ago, furnessvale said:

No.  The ban should be absolute, although I am prepared to make allowances for those unfortunates conned into being in this situation already.

 

Perhaps a one way passage back to the GU before the narrows are installed.

Removable "narrows" might be the way to go. Removable by CaRT under special dispensation. The Rochdale canal was built for broad beams. When it was restored a farm access culvert was converted in to a new route to take the canal under a motorway that had cut the original route. The towpath for this is a set of floating pontoons, which narrow the available space so only narrowboats can get through. If you want to take a wide beam, then you need to give CaRT some notice to send the boys and girls in blue to remove them.

With the N Oxford, you could allow wide beams to leave, but generally not to come back. Might also work for the Braunston and other tunnels that require special passage for wide beams. Part of that would be CaRT removing the narrow just before the boat goes through. Would prevent narrowboats unexpectedly meeting a broad beam coming the other way, with no way to pass.

 

Jen

[john6767]

5 minutes ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

Removable "narrows" might be the way to go. Removable by CaRT under special dispensation. The Rochdale canal was built for broad beams. When it was restored a farm access culvert was converted in to a new route to take the canal under a motorway that had cut the original route. The towpath for this is a set of floating pontoons, which narrow the available space so only narrowboats can get through. If you want to take a wide beam, then you need to give CaRT some notice to send the boys and girls in blue to remove them.

With the N Oxford, you could allow wide beams to leave, but generally not to come back. Might also work for the Braunston and other tunnels that require special passage for wide beams. Part of that would be CaRT removing the narrow just before the boat goes through. Would prevent narrowboats unexpectedly meeting a broad beam coming the other way, with no way to pass.

 

Jen

That sounds like a good idea to me.

[furnessvale]

4 minutes ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

Removable "narrows" might be the way to go. Removable by CaRT under special dispensation. The Rochdale canal was built for broad beams. When it was restored a farm access culvert was converted in to a new route to take the canal under a motorway that had cut the original route. The towpath for this is a set of floating pontoons, which narrow the available space so only narrowboats can get through. If you want to take a wide beam, then you need to give CaRT some notice to send the boys and girls in blue to remove them.

With the N Oxford, you could allow wide beams to leave, but generally not to come back. Might also work for the Braunston and other tunnels that require special passage for wide beams. Part of that would be CaRT removing the narrow just before the boat goes through. Would prevent narrowboats unexpectedly meeting a broad beam coming the other way, with no way to pass.

 

Jen

That solution will work for locations where Broad beam boats are entitled to go.  Some would say that is unfairly restrictive on those boats and I would tend to agree.

 

I am talking about areas where Broad beam boats should not be.  In that case, having been given due notice that narrows are to be fitted, any remaining will have to crane themselves out.

[ditchcrawler]

Just now, furnessvale said:

That solution will work for locations where Broad beam boats are entitled to go.  Some would say that is unfairly restrictive on those boats and I would tend to agree.

 

I am talking about areas where Broad beam boats should not be.  In that case, having been given due notice that narrows are to be fitted, any remaining will have to crane themselves out.

But the likes of Braunston and Blisworth tunnel they should only be going with CRT permission at a booked time, the barrier could be removed for that window. It would stop them going at other times

[furnessvale]

8 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

But the likes of Braunston and Blisworth tunnel they should only be going with CRT permission at a booked time, the barrier could be removed for that window. It would stop them going at other times

Yes, I agree.  I was getting a bit mixed up between locations such as those tunnels, locations such as the Rochdale where a once freely navigable canal has a restriction on it, and locations such as the North Oxford, where fixed barriers need to be fitted.

[Captain Pegg]

1 hour ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

Removable "narrows" might be the way to go. Removable by CaRT under special dispensation. The Rochdale canal was built for broad beams. When it was restored a farm access culvert was converted in to a new route to take the canal under a motorway that had cut the original route. The towpath for this is a set of floating pontoons, which narrow the available space so only narrowboats can get through. If you want to take a wide beam, then you need to give CaRT some notice to send the boys and girls in blue to remove them.

With the N Oxford, you could allow wide beams to leave, but generally not to come back. Might also work for the Braunston and other tunnels that require special passage for wide beams. Part of that would be CaRT removing the narrow just before the boat goes through. Would prevent narrowboats unexpectedly meeting a broad beam coming the other way, with no way to pass.

 

Jen

This is good thinking. There’s no obligation on CRT to allow unrestricted cruising for any boat on any waterway. Nor is there any obligation to allow craft to moor online. What CRT do have to do is reasonably allow passage for any suitable licensed craft.

 

Across the network every day there are boats that are outwith the published maximum craft dimensions operating without any significant problem. I see no reason why this couldn’t apply to widebeams between Braunston and Dunchurch Pools (and maybe Barby and Hillmorton Wharf) given that there is no physical obstruction to them doing so. However there may need to be controls on that movement such as nominated off-peak windows, a limited number of overall moves per year and no mooring permitted. Similar could be applied to any widebeam movement on the northern GU should there be evidence that wide beam movements are significantly impacting on other boaters. Ultimately we’re dealing at most with 6 miles of nominally narrow canal that branches off what is otherwise 200 miles of connected CRT controlled wide canal. How can it be that big an issue in the wider scheme of things?

 

To me there has to be some swings and roundabouts in managing the movement of craft, otherwise we could end up one day with a navigation authority refusing to restore Hurleston to anything more than 6’ 10”, repairing narrow Midlands locks to a literal 70’ x 7’  or banning going down locks backwards or even diagonally.

 

Around the Hillmorton/Braunston/Calcutt/Napton pound you are still more likely to be inconvenienced by an erratic day boat or a narrowboat that’s come a short distance from a marina and moored on the outside of a bend and proceeded to spend the weekend sat drinking wine and telling anyone that passes to slow down no matter what their speed.

 

So do we ban them too? Of course not, it just needs some education and an appropriate degree of control. Overall we should be promoting boating not discouraging it.

 

JP

[Mike Todd]

It was a tad interesting passing Hanbury Wharf last week:

 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

7 minutes ago, Mike Todd said:

It was a tad interesting passing Hanbury Wharf last week:

It would have been even more interesting if you were a 'fatty' instead of an 'anorexic'.

[Dr Bob]

53 minutes ago, Mike Todd said:

It was a tad interesting passing Hanbury Wharf last week:

 

 

They are the 'show' boats that New and Used Boat Co sell ....Aqualine's. I think there are at least a couple in  there. When Aqualine sell a new one (widebeams are all they seem to sell these days) they normally lift them in at Mercia (good)  but also at Braunston or Kate boats at top of Stockton (not good).

[TheBiscuits]

1 hour ago, Mike Todd said:

It was a tad interesting passing Hanbury Wharf last week:

[picture]

 

1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

It would have been even more interesting if you were a 'fatty' instead of an 'anorexic'.

 

From that photo it looks like you could get another widebeam that size through there without hitting either moored boat, so what seems to be the problem?

 

If getting narrowboats through there would cause problems for anyone, then I'd suggest they try slowing down a bit near moored boats, or that they avoid narrow locks at all costs.

[Alan de Enfield]

2 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

 

From that photo it looks like you could get another widebeam that size through there without hitting either moored boat, so what seems to be the problem?

 

If getting narrowboats through there would cause problems for anyone, then I'd suggest they try slowing down a bit near moored boats, or that they avoid narrow locks at all costs.

Its always difficult to get the full perspective from a photo, but to me there doesn't look enough room to get a 12' thru (I guess depends on how much space is on the LH side that we cannot see.

 

I think it was wrong for C&RT to issue me with  a licence with no restrictions and no "we'd advise not using XYZ", or any comment at all just glad to take the money.

 

They obviously knew my beam because it was stated on the licence application form (14 feet)

 

I have found that going too slowly means losing your steering, so not always a good idea to reduce speed by too much.

[Captain Pegg]

28 minutes ago, Dr Bob said:

They are the 'show' boats that New and Used Boat Co sell ....Aqualine's. I think there are at least a couple in  there. When Aqualine sell a new one (widebeams are all they seem to sell these days) they normally lift them in at Mercia (good)  but also at Braunston or Kate boats at top of Stockton (not good).

Why is Mercia good and Stockton Top not good?

 

11 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

 

From that photo it looks like you could get another widebeam that size through there without hitting either moored boat, so what seems to be the problem?

 

If getting narrowboats through there would cause problems for anyone, then I'd suggest they try slowing down a bit near moored boats, or that they avoid narrow locks at all costs.

Anglo-Welsh at Tardebigge Old Wharf regularly create a similar situation with narrowboats on the same canal. Hanbury Wharf is much like many places. Better to have businesses along the canal that can keep themselves afloat than get too precious about the impact it has. I don’t generally find Hanbury Wharf to be an undue problem. The boats on the right are on their mooring, the one on the left is on the towpath. Maybe it’s due to be moved somewhere shortly.

 

JP

Edited March 10, 2020 by Captain Pegg

[TheBiscuits]

2 minutes ago, Captain Pegg said:

Anglo-Welsh at Tardebigge Old Wharf regularly create a similar situation with narrowboats on the same canal. Hanbury Wharf is much like many places

That's an excellent point. 

 

Would we have the same complaints if the picture showed a breasted pair of historic working boats moored at either side and the gap in the middle was a couple of feet narrower?

[Captain Pegg]

12 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

 

From that photo it looks like you could get another widebeam that size through there without hitting either moored boat, so what seems to be the problem?

 

If getting narrowboats through there would cause problems for anyone, then I'd suggest they try slowing down a bit near moored boats, or that they avoid narrow locks at all costs.

Getting through that gap in a widebeam would be a doddle compared to whatever you’d need to do to arrive there heading south in a widebeam in the first place.

 

JP

[Captain Pegg]

2 hours ago, TheBiscuits said:

That's an excellent point. 

 

Would we have the same complaints if the picture showed a breasted pair of historic working boats moored at either side and the gap in the middle was a couple of feet narrower?

We might if @nicknorman was the steerer ?

 

I doubt there’s any canal event as disruptive to other boaters as the historics at Braunston. There’s lot of reasons we need to careful about aiming our fire at one particular group.

 

Excepting purple boats of course, there are limits.

 

JP

Edited March 10, 2020 by Captain Pegg

[Dr Bob]

43 minutes ago, Captain Pegg said:

Why is Mercia good and Stockton Top not good?

 

 

Mercia is a long way from here. Stockton is not?

[Mike Todd]

1 hour ago, TheBiscuits said:

That's an excellent point. 

 

Would we have the same complaints if the picture showed a breasted pair of historic working boats moored at either side and the gap in the middle was a couple of feet narrower?

To be clear - I was not complaining, just said it was interesting,

[TheBiscuits]

11 minutes ago, Mike Todd said:

To be clear - I was not complaining, just said it was interesting,

Understood and it is interesting, or at least some of us find it so.

 

I did try to phrase my comments on your handy photo to not make it seem like an attack on you personally.

[ditchcrawler]

On Facebook someone is complaining that a wide beam is impeding the passage of a wide beam https://www.facebook.com/groups/178384468913736/permalink/2805209986231158/

[peterboat]

6 hours ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

Removable "narrows" might be the way to go. Removable by CaRT under special dispensation. The Rochdale canal was built for broad beams. When it was restored a farm access culvert was converted in to a new route to take the canal under a motorway that had cut the original route. The towpath for this is a set of floating pontoons, which narrow the available space so only narrowboats can get through. If you want to take a wide beam, then you need to give CaRT some notice to send the boys and girls in blue to remove them.

With the N Oxford, you could allow wide beams to leave, but generally not to come back. Might also work for the Braunston and other tunnels that require special passage for wide beams. Part of that would be CaRT removing the narrow just before the boat goes through. Would prevent narrowboats unexpectedly meeting a broad beam coming the other way, with no way to pass.

 

Jen

But Jen could we not ban all narrowboats off canals that were built for proper boats????

[GUMPY]

2 hours ago, TheBiscuits said:

That's an excellent point. 

 

Would we have the same complaints if the picture showed a breasted pair of historic working boats moored at either side and the gap in the middle was a couple of feet narrower?

Yes

[WotEver]

1 hour ago, ditchcrawler said:

On Facebook someone is complaining that a wide beam is impeding the passage of a wide beam https://www.facebook.com/groups/178384468913736/permalink/2805209986231158/

Private group

[ditchcrawler]

2 minutes ago, WotEver said:

Private group

K&A

 

[Cheshire cat]

It's still a private group ?