March of the Widebeams

[Graham and Jo]

Another width restriction

 

Well if they just leave it that may solve the wide beams on the Northern Oxford issue.

 

Cheers Graham 

[starman]

On 27/06/2023 at 18:46, adam1uk said:

 

Judging by now bashed some bridges are, even on narrow canals — and how bashed most marina entrances are, I’d suggest than many boaters are quite capable of damaging things, even if their boats are theoretically able to fit through easily.

 

Don't look at the bridges, look at the front of cabin handrails for evidence of how widebeams have bashed things - notably bridge arches.

Edited June 29, 2023 by starman

[adam1uk]

1 hour ago, starman said:

Don't look at the bridges, look at the front of cabin handrails for evidence of how widebeams have bashed things - notably bridge arches.

I wasn’t saying that widebeams don’t bash things, because they clearly do.  I was pointing out that you can’t only blame widebeams because boats of all sizes bash things.  Bridges on narrow canals, where there are no widebeams, still get bashed.

[magnetman]

Bridge profiles is definitely an interesting subject when it comes to wide beams. 

 

It is entirely probable that some bridges were made to accommodate narrow boats which were usually towed one behind the other but made wide to allow passing of boats under the bridge. I imagine they would have probably organised things so that nobody was fannying around waiting for the other one to get through the bridge hole. 

 

This would be a different bridge profile to one which was specifically designed to accommodate wide beam vessels. 

 

I guess someone has mapped all the exact bridge shapes and proved this wrong. 

 

One of the issues I often see is that the wide beans are terribly badly designed in that the cabin goes too far forwards and the side decks are much too narrow. 

This must be some desperate attempt to gain more internal space and be able to market the product to people who in reality want to live in an apartment. 

 

 

 

 

[Captain Pegg]

10 hours ago, magnetman said:

Bridge profiles is definitely an interesting subject when it comes to wide beams. 

 

It is entirely probable that some bridges were made to accommodate narrow boats which were usually towed one behind the other but made wide to allow passing of boats under the bridge. I imagine they would have probably organised things so that nobody was fannying around waiting for the other one to get through the bridge hole. 

 

This would be a different bridge profile to one which was specifically designed to accommodate wide beam vessels. 

 

I guess someone has mapped all the exact bridge shapes and proved this wrong. 

 

One of the issues I often see is that the wide beans are terribly badly designed in that the cabin goes too far forwards and the side decks are much too narrow. 

This must be some desperate attempt to gain more internal space and be able to market the product to people who in reality want to live in an apartment. 

 

 

 

 

 

The vast majority of canals and most bridges were built in the age of boats being towed by horses.

 

Arguably the GU Birmingham line is the only canal (re)built with the knowledge that motor and butty would be the normal method of operation; although that concept has it's origin in GJC horseboating practice of one horse towing two boats. Even then many of the original bridges remained, one of the factors that stifled wide boat operation. The new bridges do generally span the full normal width of the channel but that is the same with new bridges on the Oxford straightenings of a century earlier when horses ruled.

 

I think contemporary civil engineering practice and cost of construction were the major factors influencing bridge size.

 

I'd imagine passing horse boats in bridge holes was not an easy task but whether it was routinely avoided I do not know since a horse boat couldn't resort to the leisure motor boat's natural course of action and engage astern gear. In any case passing the horses in a bridge hole was probably more difficult than passing boats. I suspect the horse driver had a role in regulating passage of boats through bridge holes.

 

Even the Shropshire Union, a later built canal with heavy engineering, has narrow bridge holes. The advantage of this though is that the arches are tall compared to their width and it isn't possible to take a dubious line through them hence it's really quite difficult to strike the arch with a boat.   

 

The earlier built S&W has wider bridge holes than the SU and although what appear to be the original bridges are relatively generous in their arch dimensions there are some bridges - possibly rebuilds - that have flat arches sprung off low sidewalls. These are much easier to hit since there is less headroom, particularly so at the offside edge.

 

In general rebuilt bridges don't alter the as built profile of the channel because it's a lot of work to realign and make the new channel water tight, hence there are many bridge narrows remaining where there is no longer a bridge.

[PaulJ]

14 hours ago, magnetman said:

 

 

One of the issues I often see is that the wide beans are terribly badly designed in that the cabin goes too far forwards and the side decks are much too narrow. 

This must be some desperate attempt to gain more internal space and be able to market the product to people who in reality want to live in an apartment. 

 

 

 

 

I don't disagree with that- the front of the cabin and fact the roof doesn't taper in to match the hull shape is horrible and obviously done to keep costs down.

Could be wrong but isn't the fact that the side decks are too narrow is just that. They are not sidedecks and this is something to do with VAT/classification and saves even more money.

 

 

[Victor Vectis]

Notice Alert

Grand Union Canal
Location: Braunston Tunnel - Grand Union Canal
Starts At: Braunston Tunnel
Ends At: Braunston Tunnel

Monday 3 July 2023 07:30 until Monday 3 July 2023 09:00

Type: Booking Information

---

 

Original message:

 

Braunston tunnel will be closed to traffic from 07:30, possibly until 09:00 on Monday 3rd July for the passage of 2 widebeam boats, one travelling from Braunston to Welton and one travelling the in the other direction. 

Boats may enter the tunnel if directed to do so by a Trust representative at the tunnel portal or after 08:30 if no representative is present. 

 

Might be fun if they meet in the middle!

(tee hee)

😃

Edited June 30, 2023 by Victor Vectis

[magnetman]

One wonders what the CRT protocol is if a wide beam craft breaks down in the middle of one of the long GUC tunnels. Have they (CRT) got a recovery vehicle for this outcome? 

 

At some stage with the increase in wide beam craft using the waterway there will be a need for one way working. Why should my day be messed up by someone with an inappropriate boat? It should be one half hour / hour each way with traffic lights regardless of whether your boat is wide or narrow. 

 

 

[kris88]

18 minutes ago, magnetman said:

One wonders what the CRT protocol is if a wide beam craft breaks down in the middle of one of the long GUC tunnels. Have they (CRT) got a recovery vehicle for this outcome? 

 

At some stage with the increase in wide beam craft using the waterway there will be a need for one way working. Why should my day be messed up by someone with an inappropriate boat? It should be one half hour / hour each way with traffic lights regardless of whether your boat is wide or narrow. 

 

 

Aren’t both your boats widebeams?

[magnetman]

15 minutes ago, kris88 said:

Aren’t both your boats widebeams?

Yes but I don't use them on Grand Union north of Berkhamsted and never have. 

 

One of them is a 40x9ft inspection lunch and the other is a 30ftx10ft6 toy trawler. Not the type of boats the topic is about. 

 

 

[Captain Pegg]

12 minutes ago, magnetman said:

Yes but I don't use them on Grand Union north of Berkhamsted and never have. 

 

One of them is a 40x9ft inspection lunch and the other is a 30ftx10ft6 toy trawler. Not the type of boats the topic is about. 

 

 

 

Simply being more than 7' 6" doesn't make a boat inappropriate for the Grand Union.

 

Also Berkhamsted has little to do with anything as that was a restriction from BW days. The latest issue of Narrow Boat has photographs and commentary on the use of wide boats on sand traffic from Leighton Buzzard.

[matty40s]

Watch out for an idiot on the GU headed north steering a 12ft wide Aqualine called Kathmandu. 

Daft speed to be going round blind bends and past boats,  probably in a rush to make the tunnel in the mornin!!

[Jerra]

On 27/06/2023 at 17:15, IanD said:

If it gets damaged/vandalised by fat boats (who else would do it?), make them pay for the repair -- or put the fee up... 😉

Or just close that part of the canal to wide beams permanently.  Surely also in this day and age hidden cameras could catch the culprits.

[Tam & Di]

On 29/06/2023 at 23:32, magnetman said:

It is entirely probable that some bridges were made to accommodate narrow boats which were usually towed one behind the other but made wide to allow passing of boats under the bridge. I imagine they would have probably organised things so that nobody was fannying around waiting for the other one to get through the bridge hole.

 

I've certainly met/passed when loaded another loaded boat in a bridgehole on the Grand Union. That was early 70s which as I come to think of it was about half a century ago 😲 so lord knows what would happen with two deep drafted boats today. The bridge was on a slight bend so we neither of us saw the other coming, and as a trainee at the time I might have eased a bit when I saw him otherwise. But he was a born-and-bred boatman and we simply nodded to each other and went on our way with no problem at all.

 

I have also passed other craft in bridgeholes when empty and didn't even think twice about it.

 

Tam

Edited July 2, 2023 by Tam & Di

[ditchcrawler]

Never seen this one before 

otice Alert

Leicester Line (Grand Union Canal)
Location: Saddington Tunnel - Leicester Line (Grand Union Canal)
Starts At: Saddington Tunnel North West Portal
Ends At: Saddington Tunnel South East Portal

Friday 14 July 2023 07:30 until Friday 14 July 2023 09:00

Type: Booking Information

---

 

Original message:

 

Saddington tunnel will be closed to traffic from 07:30, possibly until 09:00 on Friday 14th July for the passage of a wide-beam boat travelling from Fleckney to Saddington.

Boats may enter the tunnel if directed to do so by a Trust representative at the tunnel portal or after 08:00 if no representative is present. 

You can view this notice and its map online here:
https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/notice/25681/saddington-tunnel-leicester-line-grand-union-canal

You can find all notices at the url below:
https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/notices

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To unsubscribe from this service please go to: https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/my-trust/notices and uncheck the relevant box.

 

[matty40s]

It's quite a long stretch of narrow canal there, with the tunnel approach from the North a good half mile where trying to pass a narrowboat is difficult in a deep boat, never mind a fatty.

[Big Bob W]

We came through there last week. The run from Saddington to Debdale is going to be interesting for a Fatty. I wouldn’t like to meet one coming towards me through the heavily reeded bends.

 

[David Mack]

I can see why CRT allow the (prebooked) passage of wide boats along the North Oxford North of Braunston, but why is passage of Saddington Tunnel even permitted at all?

[matty40s]

6 minutes ago, David Mack said:

I can see why CRT allow the (prebooked) passage of wide boats along the North Oxford North of Braunston, but why is passage of Saddington Tunnel even permitted at all?

Broadbeam canal to the bottom of Foxton in historical terms....but as above, not sensible orn safe now.

[magnetman]

I remember waiting at Stoke Bruerne end of Blisworth tunnel for a 'wide boat'. This was about 20 yars ago and these dreadful widebean things were not common. We waited, and waited, what would it be? Finally a 8ft wide GRP cruiser emerged from the tunnel. 

 

 

It is interesting to consider whether one could be allowed a private trip through the tunnel in a narrow boat or if one would need to have a wide craft to achieve this rather desirable outcome. 

[MtB]

29 minutes ago, magnetman said:

 

It is interesting to consider whether one could be allowed a private trip through the tunnel in a narrow boat or if one would need to have a wide craft to achieve this rather desirable outcome. 

A great question. 

 

Could one wangle a solo passage through Braunston and Blisworth by booking a widebeam passage with CRT? 

 

And just telling CRT your boat is a widebeam when actually, it isn't? 

 

 

[Lady M]

CRT request that tunnel bookings are made through 'your online account' which would contain details of the boat.  For a telephone booking, they'd still surely want boat details.  

[Captain Pegg]

1 hour ago, matty40s said:

Broadbeam canal to the bottom of Foxton in historical terms....but as above, not sensible orn safe now.

Only to 10’ though, and 9’ 6” Foxton to Market Harborough. So I wonder what width of craft CRT are permitting in this instance.

[Mike Todd]

3 minutes ago, Captain Pegg said:

Only to 10’ though, and 9’ 6” Foxton to Market Harborough. So I wonder what width of craft CRT are permitting in this instance.

Anything that prevents two way working 

[matty40s]

25 minutes ago, Captain Pegg said:

Only to 10’ though, and 9’ 6” Foxton to Market Harborough. So I wonder what width of craft CRT are permitting in this instance.

There is a 12 footer regularly cruises the top section!!