Survey failure - worthless boat- any advice?

[WotEver]

You might ask what caused these 0.3mm pits - and stop them getting deeper..

I was avoiding opening that particular can of worms at this stage...

 

[matty40s]

 

 

The previous survey found the original base had worn very thin (I think down to 1mm in places) and recommended overplating. This was done and there was a letter from the surveyor confirming that he'd reinspected and the work had been done.

 

The new survey found extensive pitting to the 4mm overplate, taking the thickness down to 3.7mm in places and recommended that the old overplate was removed and replaced with a new 5mm overplate up to the waterline. The hull is v-shaped.

If the old base was down to 1mm "in some places" and overplated with 4mm, and a new survey found that in 4 years the thickness was down to 3.7mm in "some places", then the boatyard is using cardboard spayed with metallic paint as its steel.

I have to say that if you havn't had access to both surveys, and are asking the same brokerage/boatyard/surveyor, then its time to walk away from ******** and listen to some good advice and sell privately.

Edited July 26, 2016 by wrigglefingers

[RLWP]

its time to walk away from ******* and listen to some good advice and sell privately.

Agreed

 

Richard

Edited July 26, 2016 by wrigglefingers

[Chertsey]

OK, not read to the end but...

 

Basic Boat Liability for third party insurance. It also gives you the salvage cover you need for the licence. I pay £69 p.a.

 

Overplaying a Springer is relatively less easy/cheap than a flat bottomed boat. When I moored at a boatyard it was generally reckoned there not to be a cost effective option.

[wrigglefingers]

I've had indirect dealings with ******* on overplating and they have form. When my mate bought a Springer from them in the mid 90s, the hull was down to 3.9mm in places on survey. ******* carefully explained that that would make the boat uninsurable and they would therefore arrange to have it over-plated at buyer's cost, but there would be a price reduction to represent 50% of the cost. Somewhat new to all this, Rob agreed and was then presented with a bill for £9k, considerably more than the quoted £4K. When challenged, ******* claimed that the boat had been overplated with 6mm steel, hence the extra cost. In the course of the almighty row that developed I learnt two things.

 

Get your own hull survey. Dont believe everything you're told by brokers.

 

I'm sitting here looking at a survey for a steilsteven, it says that the steel is down to less than 4mm (and closer to 3mm in places). The new owner should consider the cost of cutting out affected panels and re-plating at some point in the next ten years. This boat is insurable to go to sea. Your boat is okay, take it away from ******* and sell it privately. I'd be happy to buy a Springer with a hull thickness of 3.7mm in places, it's a Springer, that's what they're like.

Edited July 26, 2016 by wrigglefingers

[nyima77]

Where do you get your insurance from Chertsey - our said they didn't do third party?

 

And WotEver - the can of worms? (better we know now than more bad news...) Is there some kind of steelworm that I don't know about?

 

PS I didn't actually mention which broker - do you all know something I don't know about *******?

Edited July 26, 2016 by wrigglefingers

[Alan de Enfield]

 

, then its time to walk away from ******** and listen to some good advice and sell privately.

That explains a lot - and - you have done much better than some folks whose boats have sunk not long after leaving the marina.

Edited July 26, 2016 by wrigglefingers

[RLWP]

PS I didn't actually mention which broker - do you all know something I don't know about *******?

The biggest seller of cheap boats on the cut?

 

Richard

Edited July 26, 2016 by wrigglefingers

[magnetman]

Basic Boat. I have 3 boats all insured on one policy with Basic Boat Liability Company. Iirc it was £80 per year and that includes coastal use. Wording is any boat you own with no boat name on the policy.

 

3rd party only to cover legal requirements

 

I don't believe in fully comprehensive. I know it is not a lot more money for a sound boat but I think insurance (other than 3rd party) is a scam.

 

The broker mentioned is well known for pulling fast ones despite the cut being a generally slow paced place

[rusty69]

We have two boats, both insured third party only.When I asked the surveyor earlier in the year re our steel narrowboat about overplating, we were advised that 4.1mm is a pass and 3.9mm is a fail on plate thickness. I took this to mean for comprehensive insurance purposes.

[Iain_S]

If the old base was down to 1mm "in some places" and overplated with 4mm, and a new survey found that in 4 years the thickness was down to 3.7mm in "some places", then the boatyard is using cardboard spayed with metallic paint as its steel.

I have to say that if you havn't had access to both surveys, and are asking the same brokerage/boatyard/surveyor, then its time to walk away from ******* and listen to some good advice and sell privately.

I'd expect the ultrasonic thickness tester to measure to the discontinuity between original and over plating; I.e. the thickness of the over plate only.

 

Iain

Edited July 26, 2016 by wrigglefingers

[nyima77]

Yes that's right - the 4mm overplating is now pitted down to 3.7mm

[ditchcrawler]

If I read this right you bought the boat that required overplating on the say so of a surveyor you didn't engage. the work was passed by a surveyor you didn't engage and it has now been condemned again by the same surveyor that you didn't engage. Has the buyer made an offer or not.

[nyima77]

Yes yes and yes - same surveyor in all 3 cases. No need to point out how naive we were. The buyer made an offer but pulled out after they got the survey.

 

If third party needs to cover wreck removal wouldn't the 4mm requirement apply regardless...? I know that insurers don't insist on a survey but as we know there was one and (and what it said - even if we haven't actually seen the survey), aren't we obliged to disclose the fact to an insurer?

Edited July 21, 2016 by nyima77

[RLWP]

Yes yes and yes. No need to point out how naive we were. The buyer made an offer but pulled out after they got the survey.

 

If third party needs to cover wreck removal wouldn't the 4mm requirement apply regardless...? I know that insurers don't insist on a survey but as we (a) know there was one and ( what it said, aren't we obliged to disclose the fact to an insurer?

 

You seem determined to make the worst of this!

 

Take the boat away from the broker, get it surveyed by your own surveyor, then decide what to do. You can get third party insurance and it isn't going to sink

 

Richard

[Alan de Enfield]

Yes yes and yes - same surveyor in all 3 cases. No need to point out how naive we were. The buyer made an offer but pulled out after they got the survey.

 

If third party needs to cover wreck removal wouldn't the 4mm requirement apply regardless...? I know that insurers don't insist on a survey but as we know there was one and (and what it said - even if we haven't actually seen the survey), aren't we obliged to disclose the fact to an insurer?

 

A boat will not actually sink until some part of the hull reached 0.0mm thickness.

[nyima77]

You seem determined to make the worst of this! No honestly not - just trying to establish what's legal (and honest) by asking people with more experience and knowledge than we have.

[boathunter]

******* ate trying to get it off you cheap, by telling you and any buyer it's an uninsurable sinker. I got a bad vibe the couple of times I've been there.

Edited July 26, 2016 by wrigglefingers

[RLWP]

You seem determined to make the worst of this! No honestly not - just trying to establish what's legal (and honest) by asking people with more experience and knowledge than we have.

 

Then rejoice - your boat is not worthless. You just don't yet know what needs doing and what it will cost.

 

To be honest, this is pretty normal stuff in owning a boat. We once had a concerned call from a boatyard who were blacking our boat. Based on what they said we started pricing up the steel to totally replace the baseplate, discovered we couldn't afford it and had a couple of sleepness nights.

 

Then we had our own survey done which identified some simple solutions, had a bit of welding done and she's been fine for years

 

You need some independent information, so get her surveyed

 

Richard

Edited July 21, 2016 by RLWP

[David Mack]

Where do you get your insurance from Chertsey - our said they didn't do third party?

 

https://www.basic-boat.com/

[matty40s]

Bye the way, JoethePlumber will be here soon when the radar sound to tell you how good ******* are.

Edited July 26, 2016 by wrigglefingers

[Rickent]

As has been said earlier, ******* are trying to make an easy profit by making it look like they are doing you a favour taking an uninsurable and sinking boat off your hands. Shady to say the least.

Edited July 26, 2016 by wrigglefingers

[nyima77]

Thank you everyone - apart from all the sound advice it's been helpful just to know people give a *#* enough to take the time to comment - we've been at our wits end trying to work out what to do for the best.

[RLWP]

Thank you everyone - apart from all the sound advice it's been helpful just to know people give a *#* enough to take the time to comment - we've been at our wits end trying to work out what to do for the best.

 

It's good here, isn't it

 

Richard

[ditchcrawler]

You are still relying on what people employed by somebody else (being paid by someone else) are telling you. Which way do you think they are leaning. If you looked hard you could probably pay someone to say your boat was 100% and tell any buyer that.