nyima77

Anyone there just now? what are the river levels are like? In amber/close to red? Thanks!

Sorry, been offline for a few days and preoccupied with buying a boat, little things like that(!) No link not because I don't know how to post one or even because I was afraid of being gazumped - it's just that we made an offer before it was officially advertised. British Maid (50') built at Norton Canes in 1979. We should be moving on board and moving all of us to Mercia at the end of this month.

Are they good boats? Any views?

Make sure you get your own survey, with your own surveyor (not one recommended by the broker) and talk to the surveyor face to face. Ask directly who owns the boat (is it really on brokerage or is it owned by the company selling it to you). This particular boat must be owned by the broker as we sold it to them a month ago, and we wonder whether the same was the case when we bought her (from the same broker), even though they told it it was a brokerage boat (no way of proving it but the broker's name was on the survey and the sales documentation did not name a private vendor. Remember that brokers are salesmen, not your friend. I would personally not buy from this company again, but I guess it is wise not to name names. The above advice is probably sensible for any purchase...

Mercia Marina at Willington had space when we asked last week - at least there were half a dozen choices for a 50'. For an additional £200 you get 'residential' status i.e. postal address and no restrictions on how much time you spend there - though you do have to shuffle berths a couple of times a year (regs to do with council tax, not the marina). We had a (leisure) mooring there for 4 years and were happy with it - will be moving our liveaboard there at the end of the month (touch wood)>

We've moved on. Or rather, we've moved off.

Just seen that she's back on sale at the original asking price, listed as having a 'recent survey'. And now under offer. I hope whoever's buying gets their own survey.

They mostly stayed outside our last boat , not sure if this was just because it was well sealed or if the dogs ate them all. Or maybe they just don't like Springers (boat not dogs). New one is an unknown quantity in this respect. We're due to take ownership end of week but I'm superstitiously not posting photos or getting too excited until the deal is done. For anyone who followed my post last month about survey/broker issues - oh yes, we did commission our own survey this time. Happily nothing too serious. It's a Dennis Cooper build, not that I know much about this but he has a good reputation right?

Found it thank you - I'll have to work on the beard! Does a hairy mole count? I hesitate to ask, but why spare underwear?

Steve Hands was booked till end Oct so we went with Peter Brookes FYI he seemed to do a good job. Couple of bits of work to be done but nothing major so looks like we're good to go - here's to living aboard!

We got frozen in just below Fradley Junction new year before last so I know! Mind you a 52' boat may be slower to heat than a 32' one. And yes, we did take the flue cap off the stove...

Steve's not available until the end of October. Peter Brookes is recommended on another thread and is available, does anyone else have experience of him?

We had a 32' Springer for 4 years, weekends and holidays only. After 16 days wresting with cushions and bedding every night (it's particularly interesting after a couple of pints) I was seriously considering sleeping on the roof. So whatever you do I'd get one with a fixed bed, or one that can be left up. Or maybe I just really, really hate making the bed.

We (2 people and 2 dogs) are about to take the plunge (not literally, I hope). Just curious to know, what do you experienced boat dwellers wish you'd known before you moved on. If the advice is 'don't do it' it's a bit late for that... We're not complete newbies (owned a boat for 4 years but weekends and holidays only - it was only 32')

Can anyone recommend a good one who is local or would travel to that area? Just made an offer on a boat (and have learned lesson the hard way about NOT having our own survey/relying on the broker's choice). Thanks!

Thanks Mike. We've all done it so no hard feelings. No need to edit, we had a difference, it got sorted.

Thank you The question we asked ourselves was, if we were potential buyers, knowing what we know, what would we pay for the boat? And the answer was, probably wouldn't touch it, but if we did, not more than £10k. Hopefully we'll be a bit cannier next time and won't make a (more expensive) when we buy again. Plus we've had 4 great years on her which was worth every penny. We can't afford the next one until my OH gets his pension in the autumn, at which point no doubt I'll be back on here for advice.

You think we made a bad choice, fair enough. Say so if you think it would help other people, and say why. I just wondered why be unpleasant about it. If you'd got chatting to us in a pub and given us advice, and we'd chosen to ignore it, presumably you would then announce loudly to everyone, within our hearing, how staggeringly stupid we were? Maybe you would. If not, why do it online? For the last time, most people have been very helpful and constructive thank you. Time I went, I think.

Yes that's really helpful, thanks. I anticipated this kind of response but it seemed courteous to post the outcome, given that people had taken the time to make suggestions, most of which we followed up. I've explained why we made a quick exit: We end up with a surveyor recommending and insurance companies demanding work that engineers say isn't possible, plus lots of good but sometimes contradictory advice. I don't know why you need to be rude about it really, but you know, peace and love and all that. Have fun feeling superior.

So... My partner spent the day talking variously to the surveyor, the engineers recommended here and by Craig and insurance companies. Both engineers (one was Kedian) advised that to overplate a Springer with 5mm would be expensive and inadvisable - one said he wouldn't touch it, the other that he could take our money and do the work but wouldn't recommend it. None of the insurance companies we spoke to would cover it - taking the point that you could get 3rd party (though not too many insurers seem keen to offer that), but as David points out that wouldn't cover for fire, theft or damage to the boat itself. It is also currently without a CRT licence, and the BSS certificate has expired. In short (and I was tempted to never to come back here and admit this) we decided to cut our losses and take the £10k from the-broker-who-cannot-be-spoken-of-wihtout-getting-heartburn. Frankly it's better than I expected - apparently the broker was muttering to my OH at one point that she was only really worth £3-4k; and as I said earlier, at the start they were suggesting we'd get £9k for part exchange on one of their own boats. Though I wish I'd read the post from whoever offered £11k before we accepted. (Ring the broker, ask a few awkward questions about survey/hull state, offer them £11k) It will be interesting to see how soon she is back on sale, how much for, and what work (if any) is done before then. And yes she's lovely and other than the hull well maintained - but anyone buying her needs to get a survey and buy with their eyes open. I'm glad we made the mistakes we did with our first (cheap-ish) boat rather than our next one which will be a bigger investment. Learning for me: Always get your own independent survey and never forget that brokers are only salesmen in search of a profit, however nice they seem. If anyone wants to know the name of the boat and/or broker please message me. I'm happy to post it here now the money's in the bank, but mods may be concerned that will identify the marina. Some of you will probably think we made the wrong call - fair enough, you could be right and we could be idiots (though most of the idiocy was, I think, naivety at point of purchase 4 years ago). But thank you very much to everyone who has chipped in, it has at least felt like we've explored all the options and made an informed choice.

Fair enough. I deliberately haven't (unless I slipped up somewhere) named the marina or said yea or nay to speculation. The OP has clearly made their mind up to ignore all advice on here and carry on dealing with the nameless brokerage Actually no. If we'd made our mind up I wouldn't be here asking. And not everyone is giving the same advice, there are at least a couple of posts saying £10k may be a fair offer.

There's a well regarded broker, who is a member of this forum, just down the canal from your current broker - could you name them?

Have you got some advice from your local CAB (citizens advice) or similar? I work for a charity and we have an advocate who supports people with benefit claims of all kinds. It's a minefield and I know having specialist advice and experience of how the system works, it can save a lot of time and heartache. Especially if your situation is unusual or complicated (I would guess living afloat would fall into that category). If you want to message me your location (nearest town) I'll find out if there's a similar service in your area.

So here's the latest. We drove down the the broker-who-cannot-be-named (not until this is all over, anyway) on Saturday to pick up a copy of the survey they'd promised us. This was provided to us (with customer details redacted). We also asked for the folder of paperwork we'd supplied when we put it on brokerage as we wanted a copy of the previous (2012) survey which we were pretty sure we'd put in there. It was no longer in the folder, but the staff member on duty helpfully found the original in their files and copied it for us. This (dated 3 months before we bought it) states the broker as the customer. Tonight I looked for our copy of the 2012 survey in the papers we kept - I didn't find it but I did find an earlier (2010) survey also done by Craig Allen, also stating the marina as the customer. [This may sound like a daft question, but can we (how?) establish whether the marina owned the boat or was selling it on brokerage? Because all the sale paperwork and the 2010 survey also have the name of the marina on it, but I don't know if this is standard practice to keep the identity of the seller private. It was very definitely sold to us as a brokerage boat, with the salesman telling us how much the owner had spent on the replating and sending us off for coffee while he rang him with our offer] All 3 surveys state the base plate, hull sides and counter floor were originally fabricated using 6.0mm plate. Ultrasonic measurements show the thickness of this at the time of survey to be: Base plate 2010:between 6.0 to 5.4mm with pitting up to 1.2mm 2012: between 6.0 to 5.4 with pitting up to 1.6mm. Recommendation to fully overplate the v bottom 2016: base plate fully overplated using 4.0mm plate, now measures between 4.1mm to 3.7mm with pitting up to 0.5mm. Due to pitting the repair works are outside insurance limits. Recommendation: remove overplating and replate with minimum 5.0mm Hull sides 2010: 6.0 to 5.7 mm with pitting up to 1.2mm 2012: 6.0 to 5.6mm with pitting up to 1.4mm. 2016: overplated using 4.0mm plate, now 4.1 to 3.8mm with pitting up to 0.5mm Counter floor 2010: 6.0 to 5.3 mm with pitting up to 0.5 mm 2012: 6.0 to 5.7mm [it's got thicker??] with pitting up to 0.7 2016: 6.0 to 5.2 mm with pitting up to 1.5 mm. Recommendation: fill all pits deeper than 1mm, ideally overplate aft counter floor There are also recommendations in 2016 to raise the exhaust outlet and front door 10mm above the water line 2010 survey concludes the hull to be 'in a good insurable condition'. 2012 boat 'requires major repairs to the hull .. at present uninsurable'. Attached to the survey is a letter from the surveyor dated 3 months after the survey saying he'd inspected the boat and found all works carried out to a satisfactory standard and the boat to be ia 'satisfactory insurable condition and suitable for canal and river cruising. 2016 boat 'found to be in a condition that certain insurers would declare uninsurable' First thing this morning my partner rang Craig Allen who was very helpful. He remembered the boat (and his earlier survey). He said that he would never recommend 4mm over plating as (as we've found) any pitting or wear makes it quickly below the 4mm insurance requirement - however at the time he reinspected it, the plate was above the insurable thickness and he had no choice but to sign it off. He also said he had no idea why the hull sides had been overplated as the 2012 survey had not recommended this - however having been overplated the outer plate is below 4mm and needs removing and replacing. He is going to send some local firms who would give us quotes to do the work. I don't have much sense of what the cost would be - does anyone have any experience of this? Kedian quote £135/foot for overplating (presumably + VAT) plus as it's a V-hull and the sides also need plating I am guessing this will push the price up, plus the cost of moving the exhaust outlet (Craig said that removing some of the extra ballast we put in the bow would probably raise the front doors above the required level). It was put on sale for just below £18k. Assuming costs in excess of £5k plus (maybe) brokerage fees, temporary CRT licence (our old one's now expired) - anything else I've not thought of? A £10k offer to take it off our hands doesn't seem so very bad (it was originally put on sale just below £18k). On the one hand, it really irks me that I think we've been played along, and the marina will just do another cheap overplate and sell it to another unsuspecting buyer (though at least the survey specifies at least 5mm this time). So the most honourable thing would be to get the work done properly and sell at a fair price. Weighed against that, the stress and cost of organising that (with no guarantee we'll recoup what we pay) and then as complete newbies trying to find a buyer and handle the sale. I suppose we could try another broker if anyone can recommend one that won't charge us a fortune (the marina where we were moored has a minumum brokerage fee of £4k, I hope that's unusual). Any thoughts from all you voices of reason and experience out there?

Sound advice Richard