Survey failure - worthless boat- any advice?

[nyima77]

4 years ago we bought a 32' Springer - following a hull survey done by the owner the base was replated with 4mm plating and the surveyor signed to say the work had been done.

 

Last month - having got it reblacked and having repainted / cleaned and generally sorted it out - we put it on sale with a broker at a large marina and quickly got an offer HOWEVER the buyer's survey found that the hull was badly pitted and recommended replating the base and sides to a depth of 5mm. Only problem is that this we think this would probably sink the boat - it's already very low in the water and the exhaust and drainage would end up below the waterline - the guys from the marina's workshop have had a look and they agree. So we're faced with a boat that's seemingly uninsurable and unsellable.

 

Any advice - can we sell it for scrap/parts and if so who to? Any suggestions about how we could make it usable? Or does it have any potential to anyone as a project?

 

Please, no one point out (we already know) how daft we were not to get our own survey don when we bought it - taken as read, we are already depressed enough. Our plan was to sell it to buy a liveaboard. We are just gutted right now at having lost everything. Any suggestions about how we can salvage anything from this would be gratefully received.

Edited July 22, 2016 by nyima77

[MtB]

Well two ideas occur to me.

 

1) Cut off the crappy overplating and do it again.

 

Or

 

2) Insure it third party only. This needs no survey and they will insure even the worst colandar boats so you can still get a licence.

[RLWP]

I would investigate the price of replating/rebottoming. You may well cover the costs by increasing the saleable value

 

Richard

[Alan de Enfield]

I would suggest that the only way to make the boat saleable would be to either have the bottom totally cut out and a new bottom welded in, or sell at a price that allows the new owner to do the same.

It will probably mean a total 'strip out' of the floors, furniture etc so only you can decide if it is worth doing.

 

This will remove a lot of weight, and when the new bottom is welded on there will be 'not a lot' of additional weight.

 

Contact Keidan Engineering (of this forum) who does similar work and will be able to advise costs - however it may turn out that the cost will exceed the value even once the job is done.

[RLWP]

or sell at a price that allows the new owner to do the same.

 

Good point. The boat has a value, just not it was when the state of the hull was unknown

 

You have time to sort this - the boat isn't sinking. so don't rush into anything

 

Richard

[bag 'o' bones]

Topics merged and moved to 'Boat Building and Maintenance'

 

Welcome to the forum nyima77

[MtB]

 

Good point. The boat has a value, just not it was when the state of the hull was unknown

 

You have time to sort this - the boat isn't sinking. so don't rush into anything

 

Richard

 

 

Good advice. Despite what the surveyor says, the boat is unlikely to sink in less than a decade or two especially if you keep the bottom well blacked.

 

The surveyor is only saying new 5mm plating because that's what comprehensive insurers usually require.

 

If you are willing (or you find a buyer willing) to insure 'third party only', then there is no need to do any further work. Just use it until it sinks (and it may well never) and squeeze another ten years of use out of it.

[nyima77]

Thank you all (quick replies!) I think we'd be happy to get anything for it at this point. Any advice on where to sell it as a project boat if we did go that route? It's only just below the 4mm thickness so if someone was happy just to insure third party it certainly isn't about to sink. I hadn't realised that 3rd party was possible in this situation.

Edited July 21, 2016 by nyima77

[MtB]

 

Please, no one point out (we already know) how daft we were not to get our own survey don when we bought it - taken as read, we are already depressed enough. Our plan was to sell it to buy a liveaboard. We are just gutted right now at having lost everything. Any suggestions about how we can salvage anything from this would be gratefully received.

 

 

Hold on there. You haven't 'lost everything', you've just had a rude awakening. The boat still has some value. Care to post a link to the advert for it? Someone here might still like to buy it as it is. Not everyone wants a boat that is perfect in every way.

 

There is even another thread on here by a bloke looking for a boat and I think yours might suit him very well if the price is right. Here:

http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=86002&hl=

[MtB]

Thank you all (quick replies!) I think we'd be happy to get anything for it at this point. I can't help wondering whether the broker is hoping to buy it from us for scrap (or am I being cynical)? Any advice on where to sell it as a project boat if we did go that route? It's only just below the 4mm thickness so if someone was happy just to insure third party it certainly isn't about to sink. I hadn't realised that 3rd party was possible in this situation.

 

 

Well just under 4mm is a completely different kettle of fish from a scrap boat.

 

I doubt the broker is hoping to buy it for scrap. More likely he is very aware the boat is not as bad as you think and should in my opinion, have told you this. If you give it to him or sold to him for peanuts I BET you'd see it back on sale with nothing done for £5k more than he gives you!

 

Plenty of Springers about built from steel less than 4mm thick in the first place so I really think they are putting the wind up you unnecessarily.

[AllanC]

Not that I know much at all about Narrowboats in general, but am I wrong in thinking that if the base and sides were replated, then the extra weight gained could be counteracted by adjusting the volume and distribution of the ballast. Assuming you could get to it of course.

[Flyboy]

As AlanC has said,you can always remove/reduce the under floor ballast to compensate for the extra steel.

[Jess--]

Not that I know much at all about Narrowboats in general, but am I wrong in thinking that if the base and sides were replated, then the extra weight gained could be counteracted by adjusting the volume and distribution of the ballast. Assuming you could get to it of course.

I think the amount of extra steel in question goes beyond what could be counteracted by removing ballast.

 

the original steel was probably around 3mm thick, this has previously been overplated with 4mm giving a maximum in places of 7mm.

now there is discussion of adding a further 5mm which will take some areas up to being 12mm thick which is 4 times thicker than original (and is thicker than the baseplates on a lot of brand new boats)

[nyima77]

Good point - I'm not sure how accessible the ballast is.

 

To be fair to the broker they haven't yet made an offer to buy or said it's unsellable - I'm just worried (or paranoid) that could be influencing their advice to us. Not sure whether I should post a link as it will identify the marina in question and we're still waiting to see what they suggest we do next. If anyone's interested is there a way to send a private message? (sorry, new to this forum)

The overplating was done, if I remember right, because the original base was very thin. So I doubt it would be as much as 7mm in total, closer to 5 or 6mm. The latest surveyor recommended removing the current overplate and replacing it with 5mm.

 

Have the insurance requirements on hull thickness changed very recently? Because the surveyor now recommending 5mm all round is the same one who signed off 4mm base replating 4 years ago.

[RLWP]

Because the surveyor now recommending 5mm all round is the same one who signed off 4mm base replating 4 years ago.

 

I think that is different advice. Overplate with 4mm or cut out and replate with 5mm

 

Richard

[nyima77]

Sorry, it was 4mm overplating 4 years ago and he is now recommending 5mm and not just the base but some of the sides.

[Paul C]

Hang on you've not lost everything - you've owned and enjoyed a boat for 4 years. Boats depreciate - and older boats need more work to keep them seaworthy than nearly-new boats.

[nyima77]

Yes I know. But our plans to liveaboard have just taken a massive knock back; and as it was overplated just before we bought it we really weren't expecting depreciation to this degree. Not yet ready to count my blessings I'm afraid - ask me in a few months

[GUMPY]

Had a similar thing with a surveyor, told the buyer to take it or leave it.

Readvertised and sold privately

Just put it on Ebay or duck and sell it that way

[RLWP]

the buyer's survey found that the hull was badly pitted and recommended replating the base and sides to a depth of 5mm. Only problem is that this we think this would probably sink the boat - it's already very low in the water and the exhaust and drainage would end up below the waterline - the guys from the marina's workshop have had a look and they agree.

 

Really, you ought to commission your own survey now. You only need a hull condition report with some ultrasonic work done and some recommendations on how to proceed.

 

Yes, the buyers survey found problems. The guys from the workshop will have an opinion but won't have measured the hull

 

Richard

[nyima77]

Yes we'd wondered whether it was worth the cost of a second survey - or if we'd be throwing good money after bad to get same advice (i.e. only option is to do work that isn't actually possible without sinking the boat). Can anyone recommend a trustworthy surveyor? It's Northants area.

[RLWP]

Not my area, except I would make sure it was a different surveyor to the one the buyer used

 

Richard

[Tuscan]

A little confused was this a private buyer doing their own survey or the marinas surveyor, brokers like ******* that but for stock will normally look to drive a harder deal than a private buyer.

Edited July 26, 2016 by wrigglefingers

[David Schweizer]

Yes we'd wondered whether it was worth the cost of a second survey - or if we'd be throwing good money after bad to get same advice (i.e. only option is to do work that isn't actually possible without sinking the boat). Can anyone recommend a trustworthy surveyor? It's Northants area.

 

Have a look at this thread:- http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=86042#entry1852166

 

We used Graig Allen who is based in Daventry, If you explain the problem he can advise appripriate action.

Edited July 21, 2016 by David Schweizer

[nyima77]

The recent survey (which recommended 5mm overplating) was commissioned by a prospective buyer who has now withdrawn the offer (can't say I blame them). And the survey done 4 years ago (which recommended 4mm overplating and signed to it had been done) was, I think, commissioned by the seller who then had the work done before putting it up for sale. In both cases the same broker and same surveyor were involved (presumably the surveyor was recommended by the broker).

 

Thank you all for advice, starting to feel like there might be options other than scrap. Can I just ask anyone out there, if it was your boat, what would you do? We don't have a particular deadline by which we have to sell - but had thought best to sell in summer (or is that just a myth?) Sorry for all the questions!

It was Craig Allen who did the surveys - so his advice might be sound....