Should we buy this boat?

[MtB]

£21k tops!

 

 

A friend of mine up on the Shroppie sold a very similar-looking 54ft Springer for £14k two or three years ago. He was pretty pleased to get that much for it. He paid a helluva lot less than £14k and sold it on to make a comfortable profit.

[David Mack]

Selling on after 6 months:

 

 

 

We were given this boat in late 2015 and have been completing any works suggested by the survey. We ... do not have use for Scarlet Pimpernel

 

Or in other words "we are out to make a quick buck".

 

As others have said, there are better boats out there for that sort of money.

[OldGoat]

'All that glisters is not gold' - bright clean new paint inside and out could be covering a whole lot of sins.

If a London boat could mean that the engine may not be used, or indeed not usable (assume the mooring has shore power.

London prices - as others have said.

 

This is actually true - lots of new folks come on here with comments - "fell in love with...." "liked the layout"...... and nary a mention of the infrastructure (well, you wouldn't expect that level of knowledge anyway). It's the bits and pieces that let the craft down.

A few weeks later they're back with tales of woe -

duff engine

flat battery

fit a washing machine

and many more.

 

A survey will only look at the hull, gas and general safety.

He / she can't comment on suitability or reliability and some other issues that may be important to you later.

 

go to a reliable broker and have a look at a few more boats.

 

The suggestion of a sailaway - as you have indicated that you a happy with fitting out - seems a much more sensible idea.

[Markinaboat]

 

 

A friend of mine up on the Shroppie sold a very similar-looking 54ft Springer for £14k two or three years ago. He was pretty pleased to get that much for it. He paid a helluva lot less than £14k and sold it on to make a comfortable profit.

I should've said Mike £21k with a full survey incl. engine, systems etc if the OP was unable to look around further north or have the time to bring one back down. Leaving aside the chances of finding a visitor mooring within the London area! I'd pay £10k for it to make £maybe £5k.

[Peter X]

On a completely unhelpful note, I love the location map in the advert. Zooming in tells us the boat is in Trafalgar Square, presumably in the fountains. I guess the boat might fit lengthwise and probably only draws about two feet, but it's going to be aground and listing on its V shaped hull in there. The mind boggles as to exactly which law it would be breaking, but I'm sure the police would phone a friend to work it out.

[cuthound]

On a completely unhelpful note, I love the location map in the advert. Zooming in tells us the boat is in Trafalgar Square, presumably in the fountains. I guess the boat might fit lengthwise and probably only draws about two feet, but it's going to be aground and listing on its V shaped hull in there. The mind boggles as to exactly which law it would be breaking, but I'm sure the police would phone a friend to work it out.

Perhaps the sellers are hoping that like Nelson, the prospective buyers will only see it through a blinkered eye?

[Texasboater]

http://rugbyboats.co.uk/listings/josephine-45ft-trad-narrowboat-1996/

 

 

Have a look.

[mark99]

Athy

 

I said it has the look of, not it is. Just suspicious of a fanciful, cheap makeover look made specially to trap the unwary dreamers. Not saying the op is cos clearly they are clever enough to source opinions.

[ditchcrawler]

Ah good news on Springers in general, I just read a couple of comments that made me wonder but also many who are on them and love them! The thinnest steel is actually 4.0mm - so that may need to be done when it's next blacked.

 

I think the sellers would be quite open to realistic offers...

Before parting with money get your own survey, it could be a lot thinner than that now if its been neglected for a few years, hopefully it will still be about the same as the last survey, but it may not be..

[the barnacle]

i think you can get alot more for that sort of money away from London - the bathroom walls also look a bit water worn? but hard to see from the pics so i might be wrong. if your set on it try to get a good deal to give you more cash to make what changes you need.

Edited May 18, 2016 by the barnacle

[Joe the plumber]

We paid only £5000 more than that last September for our 57' 2006-built semi-traditional boat with a modern Beta B43 engine. We've probably spent about £6000 on it doing it up (basically new central heating, hull blacking and new interior cosmetics, carpets, etc) and I'm confident we'd break even or perhaps even make a profit on it now if we wanted to sell it.

 

There are lots of good boats out there, so one thirty years old with potential hull issues wouldn't be my choice.

 

If you want to look at lots of boats (good and, er, not quite so good), have a day out at Whilton Marina (where ours came from) and you can also call in at Rugby Boats just down the A5 and ABNB at Crick while you're up there too. You'll probably soon forget your Springer.

 

Good luck.

[Mike Jordan]

The round counter and springer mustach plate may mean that this is a boat built at Silby Mill using folded sections and rolled plates bought from Springers. The springer steel keel and side plate was made from 3 sixteenth inch thick plate and should be well past its best by now. For that sort of price I think you could get a new sail able shell with a new engine and windows fitted, much better to do that than strip out a thirty year old third rate boat and find that you have paid more for much less boat. I am reliably informed that second hand boats are very easy to sell at the moment and have been over the last few months. Even boats regarded as virtually unsaleable in past years are finding customers. After waiting 7 years to realise a dream it would be a shame to not to get it right! Better to my mind to have a new very basic boat than a budget boat from thirty years ago.

Like buying motor cars you need to be very wealthy to buy ready knackered ones rather than wearing them out yourself.

Good luck with the search

Mike.

Edited May 18, 2016 by Mike Jordan

[Graham Davis]

It has the look of an old wreck that has been titivated with a "chic" makeover.

 

Totally agree.

Plenty of other, better, cheaper boats available.

[tonyt40]

I would keep looking. We just got a 57ft 2004 fitted out as a livaboard with very little to do for a few grand more. I suspect they are cheaper up here. I talked to a guy last week ( helped him through a lock) who had just bought a springer in Castleford and was setting off on a 2 week epic journey single handed go London! He had never sailed a narrow boat until that afternoon. I wished him luck.

[ditchcrawler]

Hi,

 

I'm a newbie after some expert opinions... After dreaming about it for 7 years, my husband and I are finally buying our first narrowboat and becoming continuous cruisers.

 

We have fallen in love with a 54ft Springer, but it's quite run down and we're worried it could too much for a pair of newbies to renovate.

 

The plan would be to buy now with the aim of completing all the essential work and moving on board by September. We do have some funds to make significant repairs but I wondered if expert eyes could tell me whether it's worth it...

 

It's had a recent survey that shows that it's been rather neglected but the sellers have already made many of the improvements recommended (including a brand new wood burner).

 

One concern is that some areas of the hull are 4.2mm - so would need some welding. I've heard mixed things about Springers too - so not sure if that kind of hull work is worth it? And another is that the engine is old and might not be ideal for continuous cruising.

 

Should we get over the heartbreak and look elsewhere or could a bit of love sort her out? Layout-wise she's ideal and all the cosmetic stuff we're happy to fix. Any opinions or recommendations gratefully received!

 

This is her listing: http://www.apolloduck.co.uk/feature.phtml?id=471769

 

Thanks

Kim

 

 

How about this, same price http://narrowboats.apolloduck.co.uk/feature.phtml?id=466394

[KimES]

How about this, same price http://narrowboats.apolloduck.co.uk/feature.phtml?id=466394

Oo I've been looking at that one actually, it is nice!

 

We've had a big old think and decided not to rush into things! Definitely like the idea of looking outside London and cruising around the system a bit as there's no real need for us to buy here.

 

Thanks everyone for the sense check . Will take our time and def get a survey!

[Joe the plumber]

As Bob Fleming on The Fast Show used to say (after a good old cough), "That's got it".

[mark99]

I know it's under offer but look at Sade on Rugby boats. She's same price. That's an indication of perhaps the quality to judge by.

[magictime]

We've had a big old think and decided not to rush into things! Definitely like the idea of looking outside London and cruising around the system a bit as there's no real need for us to buy here.

 

Thanks everyone for the sense check . Will take our time and def get a survey!

 

I think you've made the right decision. Best of luck with the search; with your budget, there's no reason you shouldn't find yourselves a very decent boat that you can then put your own stamp on in terms of the decor.

[Peter X]

Oo I've been looking at that one actually, it is nice!

 

We've had a big old think and decided not to rush into things! Definitely like the idea of looking outside London and cruising around the system a bit as there's no real need for us to buy here.

 

Thanks everyone for the sense check . Will take our time and def get a survey!

It's all difficult to measure exactly of course, but the forum's general view seems to be that there is a "London premium" of a few thousand between typical prices for a similar quality boat in London and the north. I would vaguely estimate the price gradient at about £20 per mile from Trafalgar Square as the crow flies, but not if the boat's in other parts of the south such as the Thames and K&A.

 

A lot of the boats for sale appear to be in the Midlands, notably within a 30 mile radius of Braunston, but I would look further north as well and compare what's on offer.

 

Why the big difference when the cost of moving a boat is much less? Several contributing factors occur to me:

 

The effort of buying up north and doing the move: My theory is that the biggest reason is that people buying their first boat, especially if they plan to live on it somewhere in the south, tend not to have much boating experience and regard the journey down from the north as too much of an adventure, particularly if they don't have a friend or relative with boating experience who can be called upon as crew. Also after taking various days off for viewing boats then buying one and supervising some work on it, especially if it's up north, they may well have limited time available off work, or not be able to take it in one big chunk, so there's a need to move a long way per day. There is a solution in the shape of the Crew Swap forum and people such as myself who do these trips when they get the chance; I see it as a series of cheap enjoyable holidays in my early years of retirement. Spring is the peak season because boat sales pick up and there's plenty of daylight to keep moving; 12 hours boating per day is entirely possible, or even more. Usually the owner comes along, but I don't think the typical boat insurance policy requires it. Other solutions also exist: moving a boat by road, which might be about £1000 with little variation (within England/Wales) according to distance, or paying a professional boat mover at maybe £100 per day.

 

Boatyards and repairs: There are boatyards everywhere, and good ones in the south, but in general I'd expect that it's easier and cheaper to get repair work done away from London, especially bigger repairs such as hulls. The land and labour costs should be lower and there will be more competition, not least because the Midlands and North have their history of engineering and metalwork. The consequence might be that boats go north to have major repairs done then get sold up there?

 

Widebeams: To get across the north-south divide (all routes north from the GU involve narrow locks) they must go on a lorry.

 

Londoners: Some tend to be only vaguely aware that the north exists. I regard myself as more open minded about this than most; I love Peter Kay's Car Share and Raised By Wolves, even though sometimes I have to work out the meaning of a word from its context.

 

Disclaimer!: Most of the above reasons contain wild generalisations to which there will be exceptions.

 

Anyway, I wish you every success in finding your ideal boat and getting it from wherever it happens to be to wherever you want it to be.

[ditchcrawler]

The whole wording of the advert bothered me, we were given the boat a year ago, we don't use it as we live on another boat, the boat is cruising the Regents canal, etc.

[zenataomm]

How about this, same price http://narrowboats.apolloduck.co.uk/feature.phtml?id=466394

 

With the added advantage it's also in Trafalgar Square.

[Jess--]

The whole wording of the advert bothered me, we were given the boat a year ago, we don't use it as we live on another boat, the boat is cruising the Regents canal, etc.

 

given it's london location I wonder whether they were "given" the boat as the boat was coming under enforcement and the original owner couldn't license it for a year, now a year later the boat is coming under enforcement with its "new owner"

[Murflynn]

How about this, same price http://narrowboats.apolloduck.co.uk/feature.phtml?id=466394

if I was selling it I wouldn't have included the picture of the electrics

[Laurence Hogg]

Hi,

 

I'm a newbie after some expert opinions... After dreaming about it for 7 years, my husband and I are finally buying our first narrowboat and becoming continuous cruisers.

 

We have fallen in love with a 54ft Springer, but it's quite run down and we're worried it could too much for a pair of newbies to renovate.

 

The plan would be to buy now with the aim of completing all the essential work and moving on board by September. We do have some funds to make significant repairs but I wondered if expert eyes could tell me whether it's worth it...

 

It's had a recent survey that shows that it's been rather neglected but the sellers have already made many of the improvements recommended (including a brand new wood burner).

 

One concern is that some areas of the hull are 4.2mm - so would need some welding. I've heard mixed things about Springers too - so not sure if that kind of hull work is worth it? And another is that the engine is old and might not be ideal for continuous cruising.

 

Should we get over the heartbreak and look elsewhere or could a bit of love sort her out? Layout-wise she's ideal and all the cosmetic stuff we're happy to fix. Any opinions or recommendations gratefully received!

 

This is her listing: http://www.apolloduck.co.uk/feature.phtml?id=471769

 

Thanks

Kim

 

 

No, its far to expensive for a Springer, that money will buy a much better boat, by the time you have spent on it you will have a negative asset which wont appreciate.

Springers were a "starter" boat in many ways and often encouraged people to move on to better craft, they cut many corners and really the boats often arrived at the receiving yard in a unfinished untested state, when our company ran out of Iver we would see a new one arrive and the team of "fixers" would come the following day!