CRT Council Results are in...

[bassplayer]

I'm not sure you can be on a continuous journey in one area....

Oh and 120 miles a year doesn't seem much for a true CC'er..even if it does "comply" with CRT...we did 700 miles this year with 2 months being stuck on the Lancaster due to a breach.....

Given that you wanted to give CC'ers a voice perhaps you need to be a better example so as not to give people such as me reasons to question stuff.

Cheers

Gareth

If someone is complying, does it matter that some travel further than others? It's not a competition surely...

[Gordias]

Now then, was that not much simpler than choosing to make wild allegations of me being a misogynist eh.

I think you need to learn that if you are presented with a difficult question, replying with insult or stupid allegations is not the way forward.

I will also offer some further advice, your fb page gave quite an insight to your cruising over the past 12 months. I don't consider you as a ccer (from the evidence of your own posts), hence my annoyance at your using it as a platform to promote yourself for council.

Please do not present yourself to crt as a ccer, they are fully aware that you are not.

 

For those of you feeling my words are harsh. You cannot have it both ways. You either want ccers to cc, or you don't. This cannot be selective in who should move, and who should not. (Even if they are a good old boy, good old girl, or on council).

There has to be consistency from both sides.

 

What possible useful purpose could be served by your attempt to weaken Stella's mandate to work on behalf of CCers?

 

From the broader perspective of CWDF, surely the best move would be to better understand the needs of CCers, and look for ways to help Stella influence (within the constraints of the position to which she has been elected) CaRT's behavior towards CCers.

 

If you feel you're the best source of input on all matters concerning CCing, you should start by proving you have a significant constituency yourself.

[frangar]

If someone is complying, does it matter that some travel further than others? It's not a competition surely...

Personally I feel there is complying by moving the minimum amount to barely keep off the CRT radar and then there is travelling in the spirit of how the classification of a CC'er was intended....a continuous journey along the nework at what most people would consider a fair pace....and that's not 2 miles a week in the same waterways area.

 

Cheers

 

Gareth

[bassplayer]

What possible useful purpose could be served by your attempt to weaken Stella's mandate to work on behalf of CCers?

 

From the broader perspective of CWDF, surely the best move would be to better understand the needs of CCers, and look for ways to help Stella influence (within the constraints of the position to which she has been elected) CaRT's behavior towards CCers.

 

If you feel you're the best source of input on all matters concerning CCing, you should start by proving you have a significant constituency yourself.

Are you a CC'er?

[TheBiscuits]

 

Correct - I was just looking out of the window thinking " must get the Gardener to cut the grass"

That's a large mower!

 

Sounds nice though.

[bassplayer]

Personally I feel there is complying by moving the minimum amount to barely keep off the CRT radar and then there is travelling in the spirit of how the classification of a CC'er was intended....a continuous journey along the nework at what most people would consider a fair pace....and that's not 2 miles a week in the same waterways area.

Cheers

Gareth

....but does it really matter?

 

The way I see it is that some boaters were (and still are) bothered by other boaters not having to pay for a permanent mooring. Getting away with it if you like. As a result CRT have been pressurised to try to apply some kind of enforcement regime on CC'ers. The problem is that we are now all being affected by stupid signage and paying for this enforcement. To make matters worse there is no law dictating how far you need to travel, which is a problem for CRT.

 

Now 'genuine CC'ers' (whatever that means) are defending themselves by criticising 'non genuine CC'ers' for taking the P. The problem with that approach is that we are now judging other CC'ers by comparing how far we move compared with them. All seems a bit silly really, especially as this whole thing has been caused by CM'ers who break the law (14 days) and some other boaters who are basically just jealous of the CC'ing lifestyle.

[Laurence Hogg]

The problem with that is that it would allow the CaRT run Appointments Committee to select who they wanted or ask national boating organisations to appoint members.

 

Allan, given recent misgivings, no internet not allowed to vote, genuine candidates not "let through" aren't they doing that already?

[Tuscan]

CRT must love the way boaters turn on each other, no wonder only a few wanted to stand.

 

That's a large mower!

Sounds nice though.

No where's my rotivator ?

[Lady Muck]

Personally I feel there is complying by moving the minimum amount to barely keep off the CRT radar and then there is travelling in the spirit of how the classification of a CC'er was intended....a continuous journey along the nework at what most people would consider a fair pace....and that's not 2 miles a week in the same waterways area.

Cheers

Gareth

I dont see anything wrong with a 120 mile range in a year, or two miles a week. I would never boat like I'm in a race, personally. It would be a shame to be forced to be on a mad dash. I like to boat somewhere nice and savour the area, do a lot of walking, for instance. I think that is still in the spirit of ccing.

[bassplayer]

CRT must love the way boaters turn on each other, no wonder only a few wanted to stand.

 

The other possibility is that CRT are caught up in the battle between the two sides of P takers. Those who break the law and those who expect to moor in their favourite spot each time they bring their boat out. As usual the majority have to suffer extremists.

[Ricco1]

Personally I feel there is complying by moving the minimum amount to barely keep off the CRT radar and then there is travelling in the spirit of how the classification of a CC'er was intended....a continuous journey along the nework at what most people would consider a fair pace....and that's not 2 miles a week in the same waterways area.

 

Cheers

 

Gareth

 

I see. In that case, when you're driving in a 30mph zone, do you give yourself a hearty pat on the back if you only do 20?

 

The spirit of driving is to be safe. Specific laws/ guidelines attempt to ensure this,as best they can. The situation is identical, a perfect analogy.

[Alan de Enfield]

 

I see. In that case, when you're driving in a 30mph zone, do you give yourself a hearty pat on the back if you only do 20?

 

The spirit of driving is to be safe. Specific laws/ guidelines attempt to ensure this,as best they can. The situation is identical, a perfect analogy.

 

I think that a far better analogy is the roads where a minimum speed is specified ( such as in Germany)

 

A minimum speed ( maybe 50Kph) is specified but there is no limit to the maximum speed ( minimum distance, but no maximum distance - in Canal terms)

 

Edit : before the 'arguments' start.

I know there is no 'minimum distance' quoted by C&RT, or in Law, but there are now 'guidelines' beyond which you are unlikely to attract attention

Edited December 20, 2015 by Alan de Enfield

[Gordias]

....but does it really matter?

 

The way I see it is that some boaters were (and still are) bothered by other boaters not having to pay for a permanent mooring. Getting away with it if you like. As a result CRT have been pressurised to try to apply some kind of enforcement regime on CC'ers. The problem is that we are now all being affected by stupid signage and paying for this enforcement. To make matters worse there is no law dictating how far you need to travel, which is a problem for CRT.

 

Now 'genuine CC'ers' (whatever that means) are defending themselves by criticising 'non genuine CC'ers' for taking the P. The problem with that approach is that we are now judging other CC'ers by comparing how far we move compared with them. All seems a bit silly really, especially as this whole thing has been caused by CM'ers who break the law (14 days) and some other boaters who are basically just jealous of the CC'ing lifestyle.

 

You may see it as envy, but it's hardly the intuitive answer. It's far more likely that this is a matter of sharing scarce resources - like moorings close to services, shopping, transport, roads and parking, health providers, schools, etc, along with security, good access, natural beauty and so forth.

These are among the important factors that determine the cost of housing on land, and you'd expect them to be relevant for moorings too.

 

And since all CCers pay the same amount, you must accept that everyone will prefer the better moorings, leading to "excess demand". Sometimes this will show up in the form of "locals" trying to exclude everyone else. Disapproving of such behavior isn't envy, any more than the victim of the theft of a piece of equipment feels envy towards the thief.

 

Your second paragraph seems to contradict the first. Or are you suggesting that CCer and CMer are mutually exclusive?

Edited December 20, 2015 by Gordias

[Alan de Enfield]

 

You may see it as envy, but it's hardly the intuitive answer. It's far more likely that this is a matter of sharing scarce resources - like moorings close to services, shopping, transport, roads and parking, health providers, schools, etc, along with security, good access, natural beauty and so forth.

These are among the important factors that determine the cost of housing on land, and you'd expect them to be relevant for moorings too.

 

Your second paragraph seems to contradict the first. Or are you suggesting that CCer and CMer are mutually exclusive?

 

Are CMers not just CCers who are not complying with the terms of their licence ?

[bassplayer]

Are CMers not just CCers who are not complying with the terms of their licence ?

Actually a lot of the problem is the definition of CC'er and CM'er. There are only those who break the law and those who don't. I always thought a CM'er was someone who moors longer than 14 days (who may be taking the P but could also be someone with a genuine problem). Others might think a CM'er is someone who doesn't move as far as they think they should!

[churchward]

I dont see anything wrong with a 120 mile range in a year, or two miles a week. I would never boat like I'm in a race, personally. It would be a shame to be forced to be on a mad dash. I like to boat somewhere nice and savour the area, do a lot of walking, for instance. I think that is still in the spirit of ccing.

I don't think that kind of journey is an issue or problem either. However, it does all depend on how one defines "range" and where the 120 miles take you. If we are talking about being 120 miles or 60 miles away from where one started then no problem. On the other hand and extreme if someone did 2 miles a week by going 1 mile to the water point and back that is another matter and not within the spirit of CCing I would say.

[Gordias]

Are CMers not just CCers who are not complying with the terms of their licence ?

 

More or less.

 

I think there's a potential grey area though, since there are people who try to "game" the laws/regulations by moving as little as possible. IMO the exact distinctions between complying/not complying (or conforming with the relevant laws, which isn't necessarily the same thing) aren't defined as well as they might be.

Edited December 20, 2015 by Gordias

[matty40s]

Actually a lot of the problem is the definition of CC'er and CM'er. There are only those who break the law and those who don't. I always thought a CM'er was someone who moors longer than 14 days (who may be taking the P but could also be someone with a genuine problem). Others might think a CM'er is someone who doesn't move as far as they think they should!

Big difference between breaking the law, not abiding by the terms+conditions and not following the Guidance For Boats Without a Home Mooring.

 

Clarity never a strong point for BW or CRT

[alan_fincher]

 

Allan, given recent misgivings, no internet not allowed to vote, genuine candidates not "let through" aren't they doing that already?

 

And the proper evidence of that is?.........................

[bassplayer]

Big difference between breaking the law, not abiding by the terms+conditions and not following the Guidance For Boats Without a Home Mooring.

 

Clarity never a strong point for BW or CRT

Absolutely...

[Allan(nb Albert)]

 

Allan, given recent misgivings, no internet not allowed to vote, genuine candidates not "let through" aren't they doing that already?

As CaRT's recent announcement says that the appointments committee has now appointed the 'Friends' candidate "not let through" I suppose you are right ...

 

[jenlyn]

CRT must love the way boaters turn on each other, no wonder only a few wanted to stand.

 

Given the fact you spent most of your time going around the internet, telling anyone who would listen that it was a waste of time, I would suggest you played a part in putting people off as well.

I dont see anything wrong with a 120 mile range in a year, or two miles a week. I would never boat like I'm in a race, personally. It would be a shame to be forced to be on a mad dash. I like to boat somewhere nice and savour the area, do a lot of walking, for instance. I think that is still in the spirit of ccing.

There is nothing wrong with a 120 mile range in 12 months, and 2 miles a fortnight is perfectly ok in my book. However, range is the key word.

[jenlyn]

What people need to grasp, is that IWA, AWCC and CRT would like a bigger range implemented.

This will happen if people continue to take the pee on what I consider at the moment is a very generous guidance.

I am fed up with those few who bring about changes that in effect penalise the innocent, due to selfish stupidity and ignorance.

[Tisinca]

What people need to grasp, is that IWA, AWCC and CRT would like a bigger range implemented.

This will happen if people continue to take the pee on what I consider at the moment is a very generous guidance.

I am fed up with those few who bring about changes that in effect penalise the innocent, due to selfish stupidity and ignorance.

Totally agree , I don't see why people can't seem to understand this .. Edited December 20, 2015 by Tisinca

[Sea Dog]

I've often cruised something like 4 hours a day for a month and Google has popped up on my mobile to tell me I'm something to the effect of '25 miles and 47 minutes' from home! Cruising 120 miles a year could be a real adventure if by that you mean you're now 120 miles from where you set off. It strikes me that 2 miles in a fortnight, particularly if the next fortnight is back again, is in a different league altogether.