Railings for Marple aqueduct - whats next?

[brassedoff]

 

Indeed preventable "accidents" causing injury or death is an awful thing but the scenarios you speak of eg heart attack and falling off the boat or being drink and falling off the boat could happen anywhere and into the water where sadly you could easily drown. How are we to prevent that? Perhaps we should fill in the canal or erect fences all along the towpath? After all the risk of drowning in the canals is much higher than falling off a bridge/aqueduct to ones death as accident statistics will show.

 

Life is full of risks best not to worry about it take care of yourself and enjoy life. Personally I don't want a fence on the Marple aqueduct but if it is needed then so be it but I doubt it will save anybody.

 

Their is too much health and safety going on and it does get carried away, point taken.

 

i agree and disagree but its is a discussion, we cant walk around in nappies in case we poop our pants i get that.

 

Maybe i am just really scared of hieghts and i am posting my views as such.

 

never want to upset the flow of a thread but sometimes its best to have alternative thoughts because thats what makes a discussion.

 

nan night everyone.

I should have added to my post: the smooth concrete 'fence' should be curved inwards towards the canal. CRT could probably borrow a plan from a prison build, save a bit of money on architect's fees.

 

Thats sounds like a decent idea, maybe they could get the prisoners to build it too

Edited July 28, 2015 by brassedoff

[churchward]

 

Their is too much health and safety going on and it does get carried away, point taken.

 

i agree and disagree but its is a discussion, we cant walk around in nappies in case we poop our pants i get that.

 

Maybe i am just really scared of hieghts and i am posting my views as such.

And I am adding my thoughts to that discussion. H&S is not all bad particularly in the workplace. It is not so long ago that up to around 6000 people were killed in work accidents each year, H&S since WWII has reduced that massively.

 

However, H&S has to be proportionate and target a real need.

[Cheshire cat]

No-one has ever fallen off.............until last weekend

 

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/boy-16-escapes-death-after-9995382

[b0atman]

But what was he doing to fall off ?

[frangar]

But what was he doing to fall off ?

And would a fence have stopped it?......somehow I doubt it very much indeed.....still at least it gives CRT an excuse to deface some history........

 

Cheers

 

Gareth

[NilesMI]

The press story says the police are investigating the circumstances of the fall.

 

Good to see that Gareth here, is way ahead of the GMP plod and has already solved the case. Greenie awarded, frangers!

[Jerra]

But what was he doing to fall off ?

I was wondering that as well. My cousins husband had a serious fall from a railway bridge many years ago and still suffers from the injuries. However he was rock climbing up the outside un-roped!

 

A news report of his accident might not have suggested it was his own fault.

[GreyLady]

I am amazed the lad survived falling from Marple Aquaduct.

 

I fell just over 50 feet from a block of flats breaking my back and rupturing my liver but to survive 90 feet is unbelievabley lucky.

 

I hope he makes it.

Edited September 7, 2015 by grumpy146

[twbm]

Everybody survives the fall. It's the sudden stop at the bottom that gets you.

[Machpoint005]

The press story says the police are investigating the circumstances of the fall.

 

 

... including which side he fell off, presumably. Without that piece of information nobody can know whether the proposed railing would have made any difference.

[mayalld]

 

Sorry for not explaining what i was trying to say very well and thanks for the tip i will avoid that then.

 

i hope i did not offend anyone. i live right near the aquaduct and fencing would spoil the looks of the aquaduct and i totolly get that but no one should die while using the aquaduct either, accidents happen so often even if someone was drunk and fell off they dont deserve to die.

 

So far as I can tell, there isn't a single example in 200 years of anybody coming to harm, other than those that have taken steps to deliberately put themselves in harms way.

 

Find me a report of a boater going over the aqueduct, not deliberately entering the danger area and coming to grief. There isn't one.

 

The only examples of serious injuries are where people took a conscious decision to put themselves in danger.

 

Fences won't prevent stupid people from being stupid.

[b0atman]

Risk analysis would come out on the side of not necessary.

[frangar]

So far as I can tell, there isn't a single example in 200 years of anybody coming to harm, other than those that have taken steps to deliberately put themselves in harms way.

 

Find me a report of a boater going over the aqueduct, not deliberately entering the danger area and coming to grief. There isn't one.

 

The only examples of serious injuries are where people took a conscious decision to put themselves in danger.

 

Fences won't prevent stupid people from being stupid.

Indeed....have a greenie....but of course little darlings can do no wrong.....perhaps some nice soft padding should be put at the bottom as well.......

 

 

Cheers

 

Gareth

[GreyLady]

Dave Mayall maybe you should think before you tag people as being stupid, you dont know if this lad was trying to take his own life in which case that would make him ill and in need of help not stupid.

 

the facts are not out and its still an ongoing investigation.

 

Personally I could not give a damn about bloody railings.

Edited September 7, 2015 by grumpy146

[NilesMI]

The law says, even if this boy's actions were wilful or stupid, if he is on their aqueduct, CRT owe him a duty of care.

 

That may or may not extend to CRT needing to put up a railing, but I expect that when the police have done their bit, unless there is evidence of something criminal having taken place, the HSE will be taking a look, as well.

 

 

The thing is; CRT having taken a decision to put up railings on this aqueduct, when they actually come along and do it, following this incident it will look like shutting the stable door after the horse has gone.

[DHutch]

... including which side he fell off, presumably.

Well indeed!

 

Fences won't prevent stupid people from being stupid.

Or clever people acting in a stupid or reckless way, for that matter. Assuming this was an accidental fall.

 

Clear a great shame for the chap, and I presume family and friends, and my thoughts are with them at least as much as to the cause.

 

 

Daniel

[Phil.]

The law says, even if this boy's actions were wilful or stupid, if he is on their aqueduct, CRT owe him a duty of care.

 

That may or may not extend to CRT needing to put up a railing, but I expect that when the police have done their bit, unless there is evidence of something criminal having taken place, the HSE will be taking a look, as well.

 

 

The thing is; CRT having taken a decision to put up railings on this aqueduct, when they actually come along and do it, following this incident it will look like shutting the stable door after the horse has gone.

It could be worse than this. If CRT had conducted a risk assessment deeming the railings not necessary then they could have argued that point at any hearing. However, having deemed that railings are necessary, it could be argued, and no doubt will be, that they have failed to provide them in a timely fashion, or if delays were due to seeking permissions, they failed to put in place a temporary structure. Assuming this individual survives, or if he does not his family, will almost certainly commence some form of claim for compensation incurring a big legal bill, all paid for by CRT license holders and donors.

[mayalld]

The law says, even if this boy's actions were wilful or stupid, if he is on their aqueduct, CRT owe him a duty of care.

 

CRT certainly owe people on their property a duty of care.

 

However, an aspect of Health and Safety that is often overlooked is that the individual ALSO has a duty.

 

Every organisation has a duty to take reasonable steps to prevent people from accidentally putting themselves in harms way, and further to ensure that they don't do so foolishly.

 

That duty doesn't actually extend to taking ever more extreme measures to prevent the determined idiot from doing something silly.

 

I would suggest that an 8' wide "moat" represents a more than adequate barrier to prevent access to the unrailed area.

[Mac of Cygnet]

In the great tradition of accurate news reporting, under the map of the aqueduct:

 

 

 

Iconic viaduct crosses over the River Mersey

 

Perhaps the poor lad was just lost. The newspaper certainly appears to be.

[magpie patrick]

It isn't the only incident. in 1982 a local school kid named David was found in the river beneath the aqueduct, he had been missing three weeks. David was 16 and was due to take his O levels. David had left his home after a row with his parents, the coroner recorded an open verdict, saying he couldn't be sure whether David jumped or fell.

 

David was in my woodwork class at Marple Hall, I sometimes walked home with him. Despite my close connection I didn't then and don't now see this as a reason for fencing to be installed. That doesn't mean it wasn't a tragedy, just that railings aren't the answer. Someone bent on idiocy or suicide can get on the adjacent viaduct or find other ways to harm themselves.

[Machpoint005]

Not judging any particular event, but in general, does any organisation have a duty of care to a potential suicide? Since suicide isn't illegal, why should it have?

[GreyLady]

Not judging any particular event, but in general, does any organisation have a duty of care to a potential suicide? Since suicide isn't illegal, why should it have?

 

Hospitals have a duty of care towards suicide prevention on their premises and take as much preventative measure as possible and so do Highways Agency on Motorway Suicide Hot Spots, it would be impossible to stop someone jumping off every building/structure as they will always find an alternative place to attempt an end of life.

 

I am a suicide survivor and have jumped a few times, thankfully i am on the mend now.

 

I dont think Railings at Marple Aquaduct will make any difference to suicide prevention whatsoever, it may help reduce the risk of people falling accidentially while taking risks on the non railing side.

 

Lets not confuse idoits taking risks with people intent on self harm they are two different things.

 

It would be a shame for the estetics of Marple Aquaduct to be spoilt and possibly not needed, i dont know really.

Edited September 7, 2015 by grumpy146

[NilesMI]

Further to that... Railway tracks are quite a popular means of committing suicide and Network Rail do go to some lengths to actively hinder people getting to the most popular locations. Partly because they have a duty of care, but also because of the costs they incur in service disruption.

 

My first ever day at work at British Rail, I was given the tedious job of colouring-in multiple copies of a plan. The plan was of a suicide site and copies were needed for an inquest. It identified where the various recognisable body parts were found. A great start to the world of work.

 

 

 

 

I would suggest that an 8' wide "moat" represents a more than adequate barrier to prevent access to the unrailed area.

 

One of the considerations CRT looked at when considering railings on the offside was the habit of some (youths) to attempt leaping the "moat" as a dare/test of fire/whatever, specifically because of the danger of the unprotected edge on the far side.

 

Utterly stupid to you/me, maybe, but not much differnet to youths playing "chicken" on the railway tracks. Once again, Network Rail invest (or waste, if you prefer) money on prevention, by installing steel pallisade fencing and the like at hot spots, but also by visiting schools and youth groups to educate and bring home the dangers to those who my be thrill-seekers.

[b0atman]

more drown in locks than falling off aquaducts is this the thin end of the wedge.

[Ray T]

more drown in locks than falling off aquaducts is this the thin end of the wedge.

I came across a book titled "Canals, Locks and Canal Boats" by Hugh McKnight today. The book was published in 1974.

In it this picture quite plainly shows a youth on the non towpath side of Chirk Aqueduct.