Dispute at Pillings

[Alan de Enfield]

, this seems to sum things up quite succinctly and I leave it you to work out why…

 

 

[Marc Harris]

And then it came to pass that the dog walking areas for berth holders were sealed off to make room for a business selling Shetland Ponies with the owner never asked to clear up after them..

IIRC they weren't called Ponies, they were called 'Eco-Mowers'

[magnetman]

.

[MtB]

 

Nooooo! Not the comfy chair! Everything CRT have said recently indicates that they have no intention of allowing PLT or any other marina owner to do a QMP in future, but it would be reassuring I think if a CRT announcement could spell out this new policy explicitly. Something along the lines of "NAA fees must be paid quarterly a week before that quarter begins, and if not paid on time there will be a warning followed by the marina entrance being blocked when the paid-for period has expired".

 

But CRT has repeatedly demonstrated it doesn't work like that.

 

If payment is late they instead pass it to the legal dept, who then spend five years dragging the company through the courts whilst all the time leaving the network access open even though they could have blocked it off at any time.

 

 

MtB

[SoosieQ]

http://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/Boat-owners-Pillings-Lock-Marina-hope-avoid-cut/story-20952097-detail/story.html

 

Love the comment at the end of this.....

 

llamalamb | April 12 2014, 11:57AM

This news item is confusing and contradictory. How can the original owners be in liquidation if the current owners are still in business and have run the complex since it opened?

 

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Read more: http://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/Boat-owners-Pillings-Lock-Marina-hope-avoid-cut/story-20952097-detail/story.html#ixzz2yhBufjNn

 

 

Same question in everyones mind! And its still listed as a 315 berth marina!!

Edited April 12, 2014 by SoosieQ

[Peter X]

 

But CRT has repeatedly demonstrated it doesn't work like that.

 

If payment is late they instead pass it to the legal dept, who then spend five years dragging the company through the courts whilst all the time leaving the network access open even though they could have blocked it off at any time.

 

 

MtB

 

I think you're pretty nearly right there Mike. I definitely should have underlined the word "said"!

 

There is some room for optimism because most of the delay was under BW, and by taking QMP to court CRT have at least demonstrated an interest in getting paid, cost Steadman some money, and dragged PL's name in the mud. They're talking quite tough, but I think a press release along the lines I suggested, backed up by being good to their word of course, would be a wise move. Without that there's a real risk that some other marina owner might feel tempted to stop paying.

 

I agree that I don't see what was to stop CRT blocking the marina off at any time, legally or morally. BW should have acted years ago, and certainly CRT should have got on with it in January instead of giving Paul Lillie 3 months more.

[StarUKKiwi]

http://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/Boat-owners-Pillings-Lock-Marina-hope-avoid-cut/story-20952097-detail/story.html

 

Love the comment at the end of this.....

 

llamalamb | April 12 2014, 11:57AM

This news item is confusing and contradictory. How can the original owners be in liquidation if the current owners are still in business and have run the complex since it opened?

 

Same question in everyones mind! And its still listed as a 315 berth marina!!

Precisely - especially as the business folded under their management - suspicious to the extreme

[magnetman]

Any suggestions for 'best post in thread' for this Goliath single topic discussion?

 

I am going to just read it all again to check for gems :roll eyes:

[Peter X]

Any suggestions for 'best post in thread' for this Goliath single topic discussion?

 

I am going to just read it all again to check for gems :roll eyes:

 

I nominate the posting of the Page 3 Rant, because it told us all we needed to know about the character of Paul Lillie.

[Alan de Enfield]

SoosieQ, on 12 Apr 2014 - 6:51 PM, said:

This news item is confusing and contradictory. How can the original owners be in liquidation if the current owners are still in business and have run the complex since it opened?

 

 

 

Its a bit like :

Your Dad bought you a car on HP, you 'owned' the car, you drove the car, you put petrol in the car.

Your Dad stopped paying the HP and declared bankruptcy, to save you losing the car your Mum took out a new payment agreement and you as the cars 'owner' continued to benefit from it.

 

QMP agreed to pay the NAA (HP)

PLM (drove the car and 'owned; it - ran the marina)

QMP didnt pay the NAA (HP) and declared bankruptcy

PLT (took over from QMP) and told C&RT they would make the payments so PLM could keep running the marina.

 

Its probably not a good analagy but the best I can do.

 

It is a very poor state of affairs (and morraly wrong) when It is in fact the same person (Paul Lillie) who declares his company QMP bankrupt but continues to benefit from his other company PLM who have always, and appear to be continuing to, operate the Marina.

 

Edit to sort out my QMP's and QMH's

Edited April 12, 2014 by Alan de Enfield

[b0atman]

I have never understood wanting to be under high voltage power lines it can do funny things to a person.

They are never clearly shown in site photographs may be the boaters hold fluorescent tubes up at night for their salute to he who is most powerful.

[FredDrift]

Having watched this thread since January it has provoked my great contemplation of the purpose of the discussion and its value. Although I am not a huge fan of Wikipedia, this article seems to sum things up quite succinctly and I leave it you to work out why

Click here to find out in Wikipedia

So where do you fit into the hierarchy of the MS / PL / CSH /RR1 empire ... One of (or closely related to one of) the four or simply one of the staff?

 

This Wiki article seems to sum you up quite succinctly if I may say so... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(Internet)

[Paul G2]

 

I think you're pretty nearly right there Mike. I definitely should have underlined the word "said"!

 

There is some room for optimism because most of the delay was under BW, and by taking QMP to court CRT have at least demonstrated an interest in getting paid, cost Steadman some money, and dragged PL's name in the mud. They're talking quite tough, but I think a press release along the lines I suggested, backed up by being good to their word of course, would be a wise move. Without that there's a real risk that some other marina owner might feel tempted to stop paying.

 

I agree that I don't see what was to stop CRT blocking the marina off at any time, legally or morally. BW should have acted years ago, and certainly CRT should have got on with it in January instead of giving Paul Lillie 3 months more.

 

How do you figure this cost Steadman any money? Steadman is probably going to come out of this smelling like a rose, financially.

 

First there's the matter of the £160k in unpaid NAA fees. That money didn't just disappear, it was collected from the moorers then spent or kept by Steadman and Lillie. Then there's all the debt (from QMP to Steadman & PLM) that was written off in the liquidation. Most of that debt appears to be paper losses, rather than actual cash losses, but they are losses nevertheless and very valuable as tax deductions.

 

If this were only about the £160K in NAA fees, I would imagine this fiasco will cost them much more than that in the long run. The costs of liquidation and fees to all the attorneys involved, lost business, etc will undoubtedly surpass £160K in very short order.

[bigcol]

Agreed!!

There's £20,000 gone already It was £180,000,

 

Pillings going into liquidation because they had no money, isn't it correct that the liquidators would try to sell the company, name,any assets off to realise as much money as duty bound to pay crediters off, including liquidators fee.

 

Wouldn't the above been offered for sale to other marina/boat businesses, not just given back or sold for a quid, back to steadman and Lillie??

 

Please tell me if no money was in the account, and pillings sold for a quid or given back?,who pays all the court fees, administrator, liquidators legal fees, surely not legal aid, or tax payer

 

 

Let's not forget all the other debts that would have to be written of as well, not just CARTs, tradesman, dog poo bin suppliers, window cleaners, car finance etc etc anybody that traded with Lillie and Pillings.

 

When do the liquidation accounts come out? All creditors get a copy by law don't they?

 

Col

Edited April 13, 2014 by bigcol

[johnlillie]

I have never understood wanting to be under high voltage power lines it can do funny things to a person.

They are never clearly shown in site photographs may be the boaters hold fluorescent tubes up at night for their salute to he who is most powerful.

Has anyone who has moored under the pylons for any length of time checked for the effect it has had on their hull underwater section? I seem to recall it was cause for concern when we first started slipping and blacking boats.

[carpet wallah]

Agreed!!

There's £20,000 gone already It was £180,000,

Pillings going into liquidation because they had no money, isn't it correct that the liquidators would try to sell the company, name,any assets off to realise as much money as duty bound to pay crediters off, including liquidators fee.

Wouldn't the above been offered for sale to other marina/boat businesses, not just given back or sold for a quid, back to steadman and Lillie??

Please tell me if no money was in the account, and pillings sold for a quid or given back?,who pays all the court fees, administrator, liquidators legal fees, surely not legal aid, or tax payer

Let's not forget all the other debts that would have to be written of as well, not just CARTs, tradesman, dog poo bin suppliers, window cleaners, car finance etc etc anybody that traded with Lillie and Pillings.

When do the liquidation accounts come out? All creditors get a copy by law don't they?

Col

There are no courts, there are no court fees or lawyers fees. There is no administrator. There is nothing to sell, because the only asset is the freehold, which goes back to M Steadman under his mortgage. There were no tradespeople, as these deal with PLM, which is still trading.

The only other creditors are CRT and the long lease holders, who will be satisfied if the successors to the title of the freehold (PLT) honour their leases.

....and if I was a millionaire, I would pay the IP out of my own money, to make sure that my interests were protected.

Edited April 13, 2014 by carpet wallah

[Hawkmoth]

 

Nooooo! Not the comfy chair! Everything CRT have said recently indicates that they have no intention of allowing PLT or any other marina owner to do a QMP in future, but it would be reassuring I think if a CRT announcement could spell out this new policy explicitly. Something along the lines of "NAA fees must be paid quarterly a week before that quarter begins, and if not paid on time there will be a warning followed by the marina entrance being blocked when the paid-for period has expired".

Exactly! Then, of course, they must pay costs + to have it re-opened.

Bob

[NigelMoore]

. . . the long lease holders, who will be satisfied if the successors to the title of the freehold (PLT) honour their leases.

 

There is no option in the matter. Successors in title to the land take it subject to the burdens and rights recorded on the title. The long lease holders are so protected, being listed in the Charges Register of the Title –

 

“(7) The parts of the land affected thereby are subject to the leases set out in the schedule of leases hereto. The leases grant and reserve easements as therein mentioned.”

Edited April 13, 2014 by NigelMoore

[muddywaters]

Pillings Lock Marina is a business and it owes a CRT for the marina connection fee etc.

 

I know that innocent people (ie moorers in the Marina) will be effected but instead of yet again complaining of nasty CRT how about being concerned that a commercial company is failing to pay a charity valid charges for access to its assets?

 

So according to some on here CRT are the villain no matter what they do. They may not enforce licence terms not only on individuals but also businesses. If that sentiment prevails then CRT face anarchy and lose a 3rd of its income because no will feel the need to pay them for anything.

Exactly and would eventually mean us losing the waterways because there would be no one paying for anything

[Theo]

Exactly and would eventually mean us losing the waterways because there would be no one paying for anything

I sometimes really feel the lack of the facility to give greenies!

 

N

[Ray T]

I sometimes really feel the lack of the facility to give greenies!

 

N

Theo I given one on your behalf.

[Pillingsmoorer]

At least we don't have to leave now.

[Dangerous Dave]

At least we don't have to leave now.

 

 

Not for a while i should think!

[b0atman]

How the hell you can stay when you know your money has been misappropriated and CaRT has been robbed of much needed income ?

[Jerra]

How the hell you can stay when you know your money has been misappropriated and CaRT has been robbed of much needed income ?

They may have no other option for their chosen life style.

 

However I do tend to agree there have been over this mammoth thread a number of posters who didn't seemto think misappropriation of money and robbing CRT of income was in any way wrong.