Historic Boats for sale online

[MtB]

40 minutes ago, merline said:

Still have the charging issue but same goes for any electric boat

 

I'm contemplating removing the Gleniffer and fitting some batteries and electric drive. 

 

Being a cheapskate with no money I'm wondering what I can install cheaply to charge the batteries. I've no power on the home mooring and roof space for no more than about 500W of solar. Not prepared to use petrol either. Some sort of vintage Lister genset might be interesting.

 

 

 

[cuthound]

1 hour ago, MtB said:

 

I'm contemplating removing the Gleniffer and fitting some batteries and electric drive. 

 

Being a cheapskate with no money I'm wondering what I can install cheaply to charge the batteries. I've no power on the home mooring and roof space for no more than about 500W of solar. Not prepared to use petrol either. Some sort of vintage Lister genset might be interesting.

 

 

 

 

Why not use the Glennifer to charge the li ion batteries .. 😂😅

[MtB]

4 minutes ago, cuthound said:

 

Why not use the Glennifer to charge the li ion batteries .. 😂😅

 

 

Too smokey and difficult to start.

 

 

[noddyboater]

5 hours ago, MtB said:

 Some sort of vintage Lister genset might be interesting.

 

 

 

Yes, one of those lovely JP3 searchlight generators I used to flog to Steve Hudson would work a treat.

Here's an idea..  you could couple it up to some kind of propshaft maybe too.. so the boat could move while you charge the batteries..

[magnetman]

Lister Startomatic CS6/6 up in the bows would be nice. 

 

kerlunk kerlunk in the distance rather than in the face. On demand. 

 

Run it on flower oils. 

 

 

 

Re-reading it that should be CS6/1 of course. 

 

My electric boats are much smaller but yes there is something nice about pod motors because water is a good sound insulator. An electric drive making a whining noise is not satisfactory. 

 

 

[MtB]

20 minutes ago, magnetman said:

Lister Startomatic CS6/6 up in the bows would be nice. 

 

kerlunk kerlunk in the distance rather than in the face. On demand. 

 

Run it on flower oils. 

 

 

 

Re-reading it that should be CS6/1 of course. 

 

My electric boats are much smaller but yes there is something nice about pod motors because water is a good sound insulator. An electric drive making a whining noise is not satisfactory. 

 

Yes I agree, electric motors in air make a whining noise. No matter how quiet they are, the whine is always audible.

 

One of them pod motors in the rudder of one of mine would be BRILLIANT! 

 

 

[magnetman]

Also water is good for cooling. 

 

An electric motor on a shaft in a canal boat is going to have three disadvantages. 

 

Noise. Cooling. Non vectored thrust. 

 

Built a pod motor in the rudder with suitable bearing upgrades and you get a quiet motor which is naturally cooled because it is in the water and you get vectored thrust. 

 

Obviously when performing manoovers you would need to alter the thrust accordingly but I think a rudder steered electric canal boat could be really quite a nice thing to have.

 

There will be disadvantages as with any system and I suppose you probably can soundproof an inboard electric motor on a shaft and lose most of the noise. 

 

The rudder steering seems to me to be a more efficient way of going because it would force you to make more use of the momentum of the boat and work in harmony with basic laws of physics. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Twist throttle tiller bar handle..

 

 

[BEngo]

6 hours ago, MtB said:

 

Being a cheapskate with no money I'm wondering what I can install cheaply to charge the batteries.

Look for something like a Petter PAZ1.   Properly belted to a modern alternator and wakespeed/Balmar controller it should fill the batteries whilst still making interesting noises.

 

N

[Derek R.]

We had a PAZ1 on the foredeck of the Dutchman driving a 24V alternator. It was a swine to start (hand crank) and with its pepper pot 'silencer' kicked up one hell of a racket, until I fitted a straight through absorption silencer salvaged from a Mini and lined the metal casing with carpet underlay. After that treatment, it purred like a kitten. Was still a swine to start though.

[agg221]

18 hours ago, MtB said:

 

I'm contemplating removing the Gleniffer and fitting some batteries and electric drive. 

 

Being a cheapskate with no money I'm wondering what I can install cheaply to charge the batteries. I've no power on the home mooring and roof space for no more than about 500W of solar. Not prepared to use petrol either. Some sort of vintage Lister genset might be interesting.

 

 

 

A Kelvin Ricardo petrol/paraffin would do it nicely. It's not really using petrol, any more than a J or K does, as it's just for starting. I would probably go for an E so that I could load it up properly (and they are smaller and cheaper).

 

Alec

[Tonka]

12 hours ago, magnetman said:

Also water is good for cooling. 

 

An electric motor on a shaft in a canal boat is going to have three disadvantages. 

 

Noise. Cooling. Non vectored thrust. 

 

Built a pod motor in the rudder with suitable bearing upgrades and you get a quiet motor which is naturally cooled because it is in the water and you get vectored thrust. 

 

Obviously when performing manoovers you would need to alter the thrust accordingly but I think a rudder steered electric canal boat could be really quite a nice thing to have.

 

There will be disadvantages as with any system and I suppose you probably can soundproof an inboard electric motor on a shaft and lose most of the noise. 

 

The rudder steering seems to me to be a more efficient way of going because it would force you to make more use of the momentum of the boat and work in harmony with basic laws of physics. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Twist throttle tiller bar handle..

 

 

What about the fire risk. If you stop an electric drill with your hand often the winding burns out. Will that happen when you get a Sari around your prop

[magnetman]

The speed controller will have an overload trip of some sort. 

 

I'm not sure exactly how this is dealt with but quite easy to do with brushless motors. 

 

Older brushed types can be burnt out quite easily but most modern drill and other power tools with brushless motors will cut power before any dangerous overheating occurs. 

 

 

 

 

 

It would be an interesting question to ask the maker of the pod motor. 

 

 

[IanD]

15 minutes ago, magnetman said:

The speed controller will have an overload trip of some sort. 

 

I'm not sure exactly how this is dealt with but quite easy to do with brushless motors. 

 

Older brushed types can be burnt out quite easily but most modern drill and other power tools with brushless motors will cut power before any dangerous overheating occurs. 

 

It would be an interesting question to ask the maker of the pod motor.

 

 

All modern PMAC motors/controllers (and certainly those in pods) have torque/temperature/rpm sensing, they can detect if a prop is blocked -- or even if there's something wrapped round it, depending on the programming -- and prevent any damage, either by limiting the torque or dropping it back to a low value.

[Tonka]

4 minutes ago, IanD said:

 

All modern PMAC motors/controllers (and certainly those in pods) have torque/temperature/rpm sensing, they can detect if a prop is blocked -- or even if there's something wrapped round it, depending on the programming -- and prevent any damage, either by limiting the torque or dropping it back to a low value.

That is the theory, but does it work

[magnetman]

Sari-catching spikes welded on the bows around the waterline might be good. 

 

One could use 6 inch nails. 

 

I suppose welding spikes on your boat might be illegal. I wonder...

 

 

[IanD]

28 minutes ago, Tonka said:

That is the theory, but does it work

According to those who have installed them -- yes, you can stick a lump of wood into the prop and it'll just stop without damage, there's no high-inertia diesel engine/flywheel to fight against.

 

It's trivial to do, the controllers already monitor voltage/current/rpm/torque/power/temperature. Depending on what mode the controller is programmed in (speed or torque demand) it may happen automatically. IIRC some setups like the Waterworld one even warn the steerer that there might be something big wrapped round the prop by comparing actual torque at a given rpm with the expected value.

Edited September 4, 2023 by IanD

[magnetman]

The WaterWorld 8kw pod looks pretty tasty for putting in a butty elum. 

 

 

 

Very nice !

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Another way to do it on a butty with minimal modifications would be to weld semicircular plates each side of the elum, out of the swing area then bolt pod motors onto them. steer with the rudder as designed with a prop on each side. It would just be one piece of plate perhaps with a support bracket so could be taken back to original metal later if needed. No cutting. 

 

Having a pair of motors with easily accessed propellers for cleaning could be a nice option. 

 

This was the stern of the horse drawn narrow boat I had briefly which looking at it now does lend itself to having a couple of pods bolted onto the anti ventilation plate. 

 

 

That might be rather better than mounting in the elum itself. 

 

 

 

 

It was pretty wicked with the Petter PJ4 and a proper clutch gearbox though ! 

[Mike Tee]

5 hours ago, magnetman said:

Sari-catching spikes welded on the bows around the waterline might be good. 

 

One could use 6 inch nails. 

 

I suppose welding spikes on your boat might be illegal. I wonder...

 

 

Good idea, but after ramming a 14' wide fibreglass cruiser, you would be too firmly attached to reverse off muttering 'sorry'

Totally inappropriate, nails are way OTT and very dangerous.

[magnetman]

Just now, Mike Tee said:

Good idea, but after ramming a 14' wide fibreglass cruiser, you would be too firmly attached to reverse off muttering 'sorry'

Totally inappropriate, nails are way OTT and very dangerous.

 

Thats why I was idly wondering if it might actually be illegal. 

 

There could be a law which says you can't fix blades or spikes to the hull.

 

It would certainly be unfriendly to swimmers in the same way that a lot of railings around old houses are very unfriendly to airmen. 

 

 

[Dav and Pen]

This arrangement is on the last wooden 30m Peniche called Aster which is currently being restored. I did see it moving and they were using the bow rudder quite a lot.

[DShK]

That's all fun and games until a trolley gets wrapped around it!

[agg221]

6 hours ago, magnetman said:

The WaterWorld 8kw pod looks pretty tasty for putting in a butty elum. 

 

 

 

Very nice !

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Another way to do it on a butty with minimal modifications would be to weld semicircular plates each side of the elum, out of the swing area then bolt pod motors onto them. steer with the rudder as designed with a prop on each side. It would just be one piece of plate perhaps with a support bracket so could be taken back to original metal later if needed. No cutting. 

 

Having a pair of motors with easily accessed propellers for cleaning could be a nice option. 

 

This was the stern of the horse drawn narrow boat I had briefly which looking at it now does lend itself to having a couple of pods bolted onto the anti ventilation plate. 

 

That might be rather better than mounting in the elum itself. 

If you bolted one under each cavitation plate, and then hinged the plates, holding them horizontal on a chain, you could pull them up to clear them or do any maintenance.

 

Alec

[Derek R.]

Which number Meccano set are we up to now?

[Ogwr]

From the position of total ignorance on the matter, the pod motor appears a bit like an eg whisk for moving a motor sterned narrow boat. To my mind a shaft from a motor to a proper sized blade would make better use of the torque from an electric motor.

[Stilllearning]

25 minutes ago, Ogwr said:

From the position of total ignorance on the matter, the pod motor appears a bit like an eg whisk for moving a motor sterned narrow boat. To my mind a shaft from a motor to a proper sized blade would make better use of the torque from an electric motor.

I believe that the position of the property, in the ellum,  gives a very high efficiency vis á vis the power used, so that the lower power is at least as good as with a traditionally placed engine and prop.