A good reason not to travel on Red Boards

[Leo No2]

It's red boards all the way down at the moment.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-surrey-20921023

 

ETA travelling on Red Boards, possible structural damage to Chertsey Bridge, boat damaged - I wonder how that fits with the question raised on another thread about insurance.

Edited January 5, 2013 by Leo No2

[tafelberg]

I certainly wouldn't travel on red boards. That river can be fierce.

[GSer]

You can almost hear the "don't worry dear, we could go to sea in this boat, what's a little river going to do!"

[Serenity Malc]

Yello,

 

The boat was initially reported to have broken loose from it's moorings on Radio Jackie.

 

http://news.radiojackie.com/2013/01/chertsey-bridge-has-been-closedafter-35.html

 

However there is also a video link on via Radio Jackie that states the boat was in the process of being delivered to it's new owners !!

 

Penton Hook lock is supposedly closed again now, so I'd guess it was being delivered to the marina there.

 

Still I best not say too much for fear of censorship.

 

Malc.

Edited January 5, 2013 by Serenity Malc

[mark99]

I passed over that bridge yesterday and walked down Laleham riverside - the river was moving as fast as I've ever seen it - I stopped and stared hard at the water not quite believing how fast it was moving.

 

Foolhardy is not the word for trying to move about in that flow.

Edited January 5, 2013 by mark99

[eightpot]

I would have passed over that bridge about half an hour ago. Oh how I laughed when I saw the police cars and tape closing it to all traffic. The boat has been removed now.

[alan_fincher]

Well everybody is talking about the flow, which is clearly a problem.

 

But isn't the bottom line that it looks like it simply can't fit with the levels raised?

 

Even if it were theoretically possible to "post it through" slowly, there simply wasn't the headroom was there.

 

Comparing to a random picture taken at another time, clearly the river is up several feet......

 

 

[GUMPY]

Looks like they started to turn towards the lock to early.

Should have got well clear of the bridge before startin the turn,

Was pulled out by a sports cruiser or a narrowboat pics elsewhere are inconclusive

[Dovetail]

Just to add its not quiet several feet is it. Don’t know when a few feet becomes several? that looks like two and a half to me.

 

I am not condoning moving the boat on red flags if that was the case? But this bridge is low for some craft even in normal conditions.

[Leo No2]

Well everybody is talking about the flow, which is clearly a problem.

 

But isn't the bottom line that it looks like it simply can't fit with the levels raised?

 

Even if it were theoretically possible to "post it through" slowly, there simply wasn't the headroom was there.

 

Comparing to a random picture taken at another time, clearly the river is up several feet......

 

 

 

It's the height of the river, the flow and that he's going upstream (I think) so the speed of the water through the bridge increases and slows him down - I think that was Bernoulli's theorem / Venturi effect. A moment's inattention and the stream takes the boat sideways (or he scrapes the bridge with his flying bridge and goes 'off line') and the rest is history.

 

The Thames has been on red boards for days if not weeks - this is the update for that section of the river from 14:20 this afternoon - and there's been no rain in the area for days.

 

Edited January 5, 2013 by Leo No2

[Leo No2]

A few more pictures from the Mail on Sunday with their usual unfortunate wording.

[NickF]

Just to add its not quiet several feet is it. Don’t know when a few feet becomes several? that looks like two and a half to me.

 

I am not condoning moving the boat on red flags if that was the case? But this bridge is low for some craft even in normal conditions.

 

 

Now I am confused ... what's the difference between a quiet foot and a noisy one?

 

( with apologies to Dovetail I couldn't resist making a comment))

 

Nick

[blackrose]

The river level has fallen at least 3ft in the reach where I moor (a few miles upstream from Chertsey) in the last few days. However, as the level falls the river can actually speed up along some reaches as the river "channels" into narrower cross sections. This may not be understood by some boaters who are lulled into a false sense of security by the falling levels and assume that the river is safe to navigate.

 

Just to add its not quiet several feet is it. Don’t know when a few feet becomes several? that looks like two and a half to me.

 

The level was up several feet - at least 5-6ft where I moor and I expect it was similar in Chertsey. It's been gradually falling even since this collision.

 

Anyway, if you compare the size of the people in the canoe in Alan's post (7) with the difference in the height of the river levels it looks like at least 4 or 5ft to me.

Edited January 6, 2013 by blackrose

[mrsmelly]

The river level has fallen at least 3ft in the reach where I moor (a few miles upstream from Chertsey) in the last few days. However, as the level falls the river can actually speed up along some reaches as the river "channels" into narrower cross sections. This may not be understood by some boaters who are lulled into a false sense of security by the falling levels and assume that the river is safe to navigate.

 

 

 

The level was up several feet - at least 5-6ft where I moor and I expect it was similar in Chertsey. It's been gradually falling even since this collision.

 

Anyway, if you compare the size of the people in the canoe in Alan's post (7) with the difference in the height of the river levels it looks like at least 4 or 5ft to me.

 

All very true. Water level in many cases has little or no bearing on the flow rate. There can be a very high level on some river sections sometimes with little flow at the same time. Being unaware of a particular river stretches peculiarities has been the undoing of many a boater. Local knowledge is usualy of great help if obtainable.

 

Tim

[ditchcrawler]

She is out

 

 

[MHS]

What a great piece of cinematography. Loved the Thunderbirds theme.

 

I am surprised that a speed boat with a basic tow rope was used to recover such an expensive boat. I'm not sure the insurance company would have been too happy if there had been more damage done. It seemed a bit Heath Robinson.

[Ray T]

She is out

 

 

 

Are marine salvage laws applicable on an inland waterway?

Edited January 8, 2013 by Ray T

[Teadaemon]

Are marine salvage laws applicable on an inland waterway?

 

Salvage applies on all tidal waters and any connected water that's navigable by seagoing vessels. It would potentially apply in this case, providing all of the other necessary requirements have been met.

[Timleech]

Salvage applies on all tidal waters and any connected water that's navigable by seagoing vessels. It would potentially apply in this case, providing all of the other necessary requirements have been met.

 

Quoting myself from an earlier thread:-

"It says nothing about its scope for inland waters.

 

This does, though, and I quote from it:-

 

"

However, when introducing the Convention into domestic law the UK government adopted an alternative approach. Schedule 11 Part II of the Merchant Shipping Act 1995 states:

 

 

 

2(1) The provisions of the Convention do not apply –

 

(a) to a salvage operation which takes place in inland waters of the United Kingdom and in which all the vessels involved are of inland navigation; and

 

(b ) to a salvage operation which takes place in inland waters of the United Kingdom and in which no vessel is involved

 

2(2) In this paragraph ‘inland waters’ does not include any waters within the ebb and flow of the tide at ordinary spring tides, or the waters of any dock which is directly or (by means of one or more other docks) indirectly connected with such waters’

"

 

Tim"

 

So it seems to me that in this case it (whether maritime salvage law could be applied) would come down to a question of whether the big cruiser ever goes to sea. Others may interpret differently, of course.

 

Edit - probably more a question of whether the cruiser goes to sea as a normal part of its use.

 

Tim

Edited January 8, 2013 by Timleech

[Chris Pink]

 

So it seems to me that in this case it (whether maritime salvage law could be applied) would come down to a question of whether the big cruiser ever goes to sea. Others may interpret differently, of course.

 

 

Which sounds like it could keep a brace of lawyers happy for far longer than the boat is worth.

 

I think we can safely answer "no, salvage laws don't apply to the inland waterways"

 

(though I did win a bet with myself that Mr Daemon would post as he did until someone said "stop being silly")

[Teadaemon]

All that that section of the Merchant Shipping Act states is that the provisions of the convention don't apply in the circumstances detailed, there is rather a lot of other relevant legislation, not to mention several hundred years worth of case law that may still apply. Definitely enough to keep a lot of lawyers arguing for a very long time.

[Biggles]

Definitely enough to keep a lot of lawyers arguing for a very long time.

 

Their favourite pastime so long as someone is picking up the tab.

[waterworks]

you might have a hard time explaining to the cops " i'm salvaging it " as they Taser you and throw you in the van.

[PaulJ]

I recently found someones dinghy floating about loose in the floods. Perhaps it was stolen, perhaps it just broke loose-there were no ropes, on it. Towed it in and phoned the police and local marina to try and trace the owner(who will I am sure turn up sooner or later).

I would not want to even try to claim Marine Salvage and benefit from someone elses loss or mistake? Would be more like piracy :-)What happened to helping a fellow boater out? It is a bit different to a vessel drifting about at sea.

[Keeping Up]

We found a narrowboat drifting near Reading once, with an overheated engine. The owner who was standing in the engine compartment was very reluctant to allow us to take him in tow in case we claimed salvage rights. After a few minutes we convinced him to let us tie alongside, and we then took him to his mooring and left him tied to the bank. Even then we could tell he was still waiting for us to demand some form of payment, and the relief on his face as we said goodbye and set off up the river was quite evident.