Ribble link draft

[nicknorman]

I went to book the ribble link for next summer, but it won’t let me - draft too great, maximum 0.69 metres. So I wondered whether this really was an issue - ie whether our boat should miraculously lose some draft (on paper), or whether we might get stuck somewhere if it did? I’m fairly sure other people with Hudsons have made the passage sucessfully.

[frangar]

I took my boat through in 2015....we draw 2ft 8in...and didnt have any real issues....savick brook is a bit slow going in places and you wont be able to moor as you please on the Lancaster but stick to the signed mooring sites and you will be fine. Depending on your cooling system/prop/nerve the tidal bit is fun....you are punching the tide for quite a bit...and of course spring tides are worse..but give you a bigger window...on the return trip we were registering 1 mph on the GPS....that was going backwards and we were fairly flat out....however the tide soon slackens and all is good.

 

[nicknorman]

Thanks for that.  Beta 43 with correct sized skin tank - never had a hint of overheating on tidal Trent so that bit doesn’t worry me too much.

[Snakey]

We draw between 30-32 inches (depending on tanks) and we had to 'correct' our draught to 27 inches on CRT's records before we could cross. We've since made 6 crossings without problems.

[frangar]

Just now, nicknorman said:

Thanks for that.  Beta 43 with correct sized skin tank - never had a hint of overheating on tidal Trent so that bit doesn’t worry me too much.

I dont doubt all is well but were you punching the tide on the trent?...My engine was definitely worked harder on the Ribble than it was on Trent where you usually go with the tide for the majority of the journey. It's just something to be aware of....I also ran my alde pump so used the calorifier as a heat exchanger into the radiators.....and ran the hot water off just to be safe.

[Midnight]

I went over awhile ago accompanied by a fellow aboard an old wooden boat which I was told had a 33" draft. Mooring on the Lancaster will be your main issue I suspect.

 

Leaving Tarelton you get hit by the incoming tide but your Beta 43 will manage quite well. Give it some so you don't get diverted into Preston Docks.

 

Coming back over it's better to slowly leave the sea lock and hang back in the brook waiting for the tide to ease. The first time I got some rope around the prop leaving the sea lock pontoon and was 25mins after the other boats. We were right behind them when we reached the Ribble. When I brought a boat over for a friend a few years back we were accompanied by a local boat. He suggested we go very slowly down the brook to the Ribble which worked a treat. 

We are thinking of doing it again in July. That's if C&RT can keep the Pennine canals open long enough 😜

[nicknorman]

2 hours ago, frangar said:

I dont doubt all is well but were you punching the tide on the trent?...My engine was definitely worked harder on the Ribble than it was on Trent where you usually go with the tide for the majority of the journey. It's just something to be aware of....I also ran my alde pump so used the calorifier as a heat exchanger into the radiators.....and ran the hot water off just to be safe.

Yes we weren’t flat out on the Trent, but a steady 2200rpm for a few hours, temp didn’t move off 75c. Never tried it absolutely flat out for long periods but I doubt it would actually go much faster through the water. We also have engine to CH heat exchanger and of course the option to dump heat via hot water, neither of which were needed at 2200. 

[frangar]

1 minute ago, nicknorman said:

Yes we weren’t flat out on the Trent, but a steady 2200rpm for a few hours, temp didn’t move off 75c. Never tried it absolutely flat out for long periods but I doubt it would actually go much faster through the water. We also have engine to CH heat exchanger and of course the option to dump heat via hot water, neither of which were needed at 2200. 

As I said it's just something to be aware of....worth using the tap at Tarelton to top the water tank up while you wait for the tide....it's also worth a wander up to the town as its good restocking point...there was a good indian takeaway when we were there as well. Also be aware that it wasnt that easy to get diesel on the Lancaster...so worth topping up at either Fettlers wharf or St marys.....depending on your timescale it's worth spending some time on the Lancaster...you can always have days out on the train from carnforth etc. We really enjoyed it....we had 2/3 weeks over there...a week wouldn't have done it justice to my mind.

[nicknorman]

1 minute ago, frangar said:

As I said it's just something to be aware of....worth using the tap at Tarelton to top the water tank up while you wait for the tide....it's also worth a wander up to the town as its good restocking point...there was a good indian takeaway when we were there as well. Also be aware that it wasnt that easy to get diesel on the Lancaster...so worth topping up at either Fettlers wharf or St marys.....depending on your timescale it's worth spending some time on the Lancaster...you can always have days out on the train from carnforth etc. We really enjoyed it....we had 2/3 weeks over there...a week wouldn't have done it justice to my mind.

Thanks for the tips, I was planning on a couple of weeks. With the limited passage timings you can’t really do any less, unless you just go for a few days.

[Alway Swilby]

We are 30" draught and got through Savick Brook twice without any problem. We did have to ring CRT and get them to change our draught on their records before we could book. We are now shown as 0.69 metres whatever that is in old money.

 

Our Beta 43 in a Jonathan Wilson hull had no problems running at 2200 revs for the necessary time. We did have a full water tank as advised by the locals but we didn't need to run off hot water or run the Alde pump.

 

[IanD]

11 minutes ago, Alway Swilby said:

We are 30" draught and got through Savick Brook twice without any problem. We did have to ring CRT and get them to change our draught on their records before we could book. We are now shown as 0.69 metres whatever that is in old money.

 

Our Beta 43 in a Jonathan Wilson hull had no problems running at 2200 revs for the necessary time. We did have a full water tank as advised by the locals but we didn't need to run off hot water or run the Alde pump.

 

 

About 20hp then, assuming your boat isn't overpropped... 😉

[Mike Todd]

3 hours ago, Midnight said:

I went over awhile ago accompanied by a fellow aboard an old wooden boat which I was told had a 33" draft. Mooring on the Lancaster will be your main issue I suspect.

 

Leaving Tarelton you get hit by the incoming tide but your Beta 43 will manage quite well. Give it some so you don't get diverted into Preston Docks.

 

Coming back over it's better to slowly leave the sea lock and hang back in the brook waiting for the tide to ease. The first time I got some rope around the prop leaving the sea lock pontoon and was 25mins after the other boats. We were right behind them when we reached the Ribble. When I brought a boat over for a friend a few years back we were accompanied by a local boat. He suggested we go very slowly down the brook to the Ribble which worked a treat. 

We are thinking of doing it again in July. That's if C&RT can keep the Pennine canals open long enough 😜

Diverted into Preston Dock is not a bad thing - quite interesting on the one time it happened to us.

 

The draft limit relates to Ribble Link and not the Lanky, even if the comments are actually true. You will soon get used to overnight mooring out of sight of land (!) Having a K&A length plank is a help.

 

The comments about punching the tide are also true and you do need to be alert about timings even if the  lockies are not always very accurate in advising. The tide will turn whilst on the Ribble and it is easy not to notice that you have almost come to a stand still with the  engine set for a reasonable speed over the ground as you emerge from the Douglas. It is then you you will need some reserve power to avoid missing the time into Savick Brook. 

 

I suspect the main measured draft limit is the half tide rotating lock. The usual procedure is to have to wait on the mooring just after that, before the A583 road bridge. When you arrive the level will be too high to get under (and over the lock cill) and so the wait is to let it drop - this does not seem to be explained in the guides. Same happens in reverse when coming back again, except that you will be waiting for the level to come up after the flotilla has come under the bridge. Watch out for an over-enthusiastic lockie when you are set off from the pontoon on the way out - ours last year opened up so fast it gave us quite an 'experience' (!)

 

For all that, it is a great trip and the Lanky is good so long as you adjust to a different speed of life! If the available Link slots mean that you have time to spare there are lots of great things to do off-canal, mostly available via public transport. Try Ribblehead Viaduct for example.

[nicknorman]

2 hours ago, IanD said:

 

About 20hp then, assuming your boat isn't overpropped... 😉

However with speed relating to the cube root of the power, you are not going to go much faster at 2700.

[IanD]

4 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

However with speed relating to the cube root of the power, you are not going to go much faster at 2700.

You and I both know that -- my point was that 15kW/20hp is plenty even on something like the Ribble Link or the Trent... 😉

[ditchcrawler]

4 minutes ago, IanD said:

You and I both know that -- my point was that 15kW/20hp is plenty even on something like the Ribble Link or the Trent... 😉

Is that theoretical or measured data?

[frangar]

4 minutes ago, IanD said:

You and I both know that -- my point was that 15kW/20hp is plenty even on something like the Ribble Link or the Trent... 😉

It’s also to do with torque as much as HP….my JP2 is 18hp…but lots of torque to swing a prop that would stall a 42hp beta….

[IanD]

17 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

Is that theoretical or measured data?

Measured, according to the posts above... 😉

 

[PCSB]

On the way over don't hang about. We were tail end charlie and nearly ran out of water in Savick Brook despite me trying to get those in front to get a wriggle on. We got a hurry up call from CaRT too, none of the others answered their phones! (go figure). I should have overtaken them on the Ribble, we had plenty in reserve but I was concerned that two of the boats may be having over-heating issues. We draw somewhere around 27" depending on fuel etc and we wre scraping bottom in places on the way up the brook. We spent 5 weeks on the Lanky and it was brilliant, well worth it. I did a steady 1800 rpm all the way back, and made it in enough time for the lockies to get us up at Tarleton and reset the lock for the other boats following (4 of them). We will definitely do it again sometime

[Tacet]

I check the permitted dimensions for the Ribble Link & Stanedge Tunnel before completing the CRT forms; just to make sure that no inaccurate data is communicated of course.  Neither the Ribble Link nor the Lancaster Canal seemed exceptionally shallow to me.

 

As others have stated, the Ribble Crossing does require one to push the engine hard for a long period.  It is the most testing of engine/cooling of all the common trips for narrow boats.  You may well find you have time in hand - but unless you make the journey frequently, you only discover you could have taken it a little easier when it's over.

 

We were fine - but one boat in our group overheated after only a few miles out on the Douglas.  Operating the central heating through the plate exchanger seemed a sensible precaution, but I doubt it was essential.

[Wanderer Vagabond]

2 hours ago, Mike Todd said:

Diverted into Preston Dock is not a bad thing - quite interesting on the one time it happened to us.

 

The draft limit relates to Ribble Link and not the Lanky, even if the comments are actually true. You will soon get used to overnight mooring out of sight of land (!) Having a K&A length plank is a help.

 

The comments about punching the tide are also true and you do need to be alert about timings even if the  lockies are not always very accurate in advising. The tide will turn whilst on the Ribble and it is easy not to notice that you have almost come to a stand still with the  engine set for a reasonable speed over the ground as you emerge from the Douglas. It is then you you will need some reserve power to avoid missing the time into Savick Brook. 

 

I suspect the main measured draft limit is the half tide rotating lock. The usual procedure is to have to wait on the mooring just after that, before the A583 road bridge. When you arrive the level will be too high to get under (and over the lock cill) and so the wait is to let it drop - this does not seem to be explained in the guides. Same happens in reverse when coming back again, except that you will be waiting for the level to come up after the flotilla has come under the bridge. Watch out for an over-enthusiastic lockie when you are set off from the pontoon on the way out - ours last year opened up so fast it gave us quite an 'experience' (!)

 

For all that, it is a great trip and the Lanky is good so long as you adjust to a different speed of life! If the available Link slots mean that you have time to spare there are lots of great things to do off-canal, mostly available via public transport. Try Ribblehead Viaduct for example.

I'd even go as far as recommending being diverted to Preston Docks. When we did the Ribble Link, the light at Savick Brook went out when we were about a mile from it and they called us up to carry on to Preston Docks. The mooring there is fine and the trip back to Savick is a whole lot easier when you're travelling with the tide. They let you out from Preston Docks at high tide and you simply travel down on the slowly ebbing tide, distance of less than 2 miles, so you get to Savick about 30 minutes or so later and pass over the tidal lock at pretty much full tide so no worries about possibly grounding. The only downside is that you then have to sit and wait for those coming up from Tarleton to arrive since, until the tide has dropped enough you cannot go up Savick Brook, but on the other hand if you are in a rush, why would you be on a narrowboat?

[Cheshire cat]

Our boat has done this trip no problem. 28" of draught. Only a Beta 35 which maxes out at 2100 in gear. No problem with overheating but our skin tank is massive.

[Mrs Bearwood Boster]

Hi Nick,we're going with third time lucky getting onto the Lancaster this summer.1st time-big hole in the canal opened up.2nd time-we got as far as Tarleton before CRT cancelled the crossings due to gale force winds.The next crossings weren't for another fortnight due to the tides !

We may see you en route/there.Fingers crossed.

[john6767]

We did the Lancaster in 2019, Beta 35 and 50 ft boat, about 25” draft.

 

I am sure you will have no issue with overheating, our skin tank is undersize and in general I kept the rpm to 2000 which I know it can do all day on rivers with no issue.  
 

On the way up we were lead boat as no one wanted to go first, no one overtook us and we were first to the holding pontoon in Savick Brook and waited there about 90 mins for the tide to drop to get under the bridge.

 

On the way back we were first down Savick Brook and there was little water in there, we were scraping the bottom, and hit the concrete outflow part way down, which I think is the shallowest point. As we were first to the holding pontoon on the way down we were second off there going out to the Ribble.  Getting onto the Ribble against a very fast running tide was the hardest part of the trip and we had to gun the engine to make the turn and to start to make very slow progress against the tide for the first half mile or so until the tide slackened off.

 

On the way back all 7 boats had to hover on the Douglas while the tide dropped to make a level with the Rufford branch at which point they opened both ends of the lock and we all went straight through.

[DandV]

I think it depends a bit on where you are in the queue on the passage up and down Savick Brook. 

On the way up the flotilla has to wait until the tide has dropped enough to get under the bridge. But then on an ever dropping tide the flotilla spreads out queuing for the next lock. I am not sure about the recharge rate between the locks maintaining depth, as a quick succession of boats lock through. 

We were at the tail of the queue on the run down and were running short  of depth 0.6m on the approach to the bottom  pontoon.

A most enjoyable trip though.

[TheBiscuits]

On 23/12/2023 at 10:22, nicknorman said:

I went to book the ribble link for next summer, but it won’t let me - draft too great, maximum 0.69 metres. So I wondered whether this really was an issue - ie whether our boat should miraculously lose some draft (on paper), or whether we might get stuck somewhere if it did?

 

My boat lost a bit of draught on the website to "fit" through the Ribble Link booking.  The rotating sea lock (the pinch point) was fine.

 

If you're worried, book for a higher predicted tide - they run uphill from about 8.6m to 9.5m - and try and get out of Tarleton as early as possible or give it more beans down the Douglas.

 

Basically you'll be fine. 

 

Unless you're tail end Charlie on a low tide, in which case you'd want to divert to Preston Docks and go up the link the day after, which is the fallback plan if it all goes wonky.  I'd actually recommend adding this in if it's the first time you've done the Ribble Link, simply because most boats don't do it, and it's there!

On 23/12/2023 at 12:33, Midnight said:

We are thinking of doing it again in July. That's if C&RT can keep the Pennine canals open long enough 😜

 

They'll make a special exception for you now you've said that and close them in July, which is a shame because I was thinking of doing the Rochdale this year...

 

Maybe I'll go in June instead! 🤣