How many more people are moving onto the canals?

[Crewcut]

1 hour ago, Mike Tee said:

I'll be up front here - I live on a boat in a marina. I appreciate all the comments about high cost of living, low wages and housing shortages, and they all contribute to the ever increasing numbers of those moving onto the canal system

However, what royally pisses me off are those that move onto a boat and then milk the system of education (if they have kids of school age), use the NHS service (such as it is), claim as much as possible from the government in the way of benefits, then live on their boat in an area without really moving (don't care what the 'rules' say, bridge hopping is not cruising) and then contribute absolutely nothing to the country, local council or community in which they live. Parasites. And their way of life actually helps the decline that pushed them onto the canals, because somewhere somehow it all has to be paid for.

I can't measure how many are living like this as the information is not out there, but I suspect more than a few. Actually, I'll amend that, I know of quite a few in my immediate area.

 

Education is free to anyone whether on benefits or not, wherever & however you live, I don't see how anybody could "milk" that, same with the NHS. And why should anyone not claim benefits to which they're entitled?

[Arthur Marshall]

39 minutes ago, system 4-50 said:

We are overpopulated.  We are unable to grow enough food to feed ourselves despite highly intensive methods that make no allowance for the varying climate that this country is known to have had in the past.  We can import stuff now but this will not always be true.  The standards for housing have been watered down so they are smaller.   Our population density makes no allowance for the vast areas of our country that nobody wants to live in.  We have insufficient wealth-creating industries to absorb extra workers but we are highly skilled in developing service industries that drain resources.   We are going to seed, with the decline in living standards that goes with it, and its only going to get worse.  We are going to be poorer and poorer.  

 

Bits of the UK probably are crowded (especially in England), most of it isn't. Industry and jobs are concentrated in small areas and this could be easily corrected if the will and investment was there, which it isn't. A fair number of folk might quite like living in your bits that you think nobody wants! As far as housing is concerned, we need decent housing at sensible rents and prices, not vast estates of expensive houses and landlords subsidised by government benefits. Again, this is policy.

The food argument is spurious - hardly any "developed" countries can feed themselves, our climate is wrong for a start. We only grow what we do with massive subsidies to farmers - or "benefit scroungers", as I suppose some would call them.

Renting out the towpath to liveaboards, which is more or less what the CC surcharge does, is a sensible solution, and the sooner it gets properly organised the better. The first step, of course, would be to ensure that only liveaboards could be classed as CC, and the freeloaders shuffled off to moorings elsewhere.

[Tracy D'arth]

Simple answer to the question --  Too many.

[Ronaldo47]

1 hour ago, magnetman said:

 

 

Its partly related to 'quality of life'. 

 

There was a time when a family of 5 living in a two up two down with a tin bath in the yard was normal. Nobody bothered but these days it would be classed as inadequate housing. 

 

 

A two up and two down plus yard would probably provide more living space than some of the recent offices-converted-to-flats social housing developments, some of which according to a Radio 4 programme last year,  have no windows, relying on a skylight to provide natural lighting and ventilation, and having no private outdoor space.

[Momac]

3 hours ago, Mad Harold said:

Every time I switch my phone on there is a headline from some newspaper or other with yet another person "living the dream".

 

This may be  because the headlines you are seeing are tailored to your history of searches and past opening of similar articles  . You can clear your history and clear cookies which may help. Or just search for other stuff that you would prefer to see  (I leave the subject to your imagination) and  do not open reports about people living the dream on boats.

[Mike Tee]

36 minutes ago, Crewcut said:

 

Education is free to anyone whether on benefits or not, wherever & however you live, I don't see how anybody could "milk" that, same with the NHS. And why should anyone not claim benefits to which they're entitled?

How naive are you? Where do you think the money comes from to pay for all this? Oh, you think it comes from the government or local council - I wonder where they get it from........

[LadyG]

Having existed through post war austerity as a child, and met people who have never in all their lives had anything to spare at the end of the week, I can assure you that what we are now experiencing is not that type of poverty, it is uneven distribution of wealth. 

We still have some manufacturing, still have some agriculture (which is not subsidised) and the financial services industry is still a major influence in the UK economy.

Its amazing that we now have hardly any unemployment, unlike the dreary years of recession.

I'm not sure how it is that retail and service industries are draining resources, if they provide employment and generate wealth, including taxation, then that is a natural progression.

A few boaters not paying Council Tax while sending their kids to state schools are really not upsetting the UK economy. In years gone by the Local Authority would often provide subsidised housing, if that is not available, then living in a marina might be the only option for some. As far as I can work out, anyone who has a child since 1944 has always had subsidised education, health and welfare, and many other benefits not available to a single childless person. This is is normal in First World economies.

Edited November 18, 2023 by LadyG

[MtB]

1 hour ago, Mike Tee said:

How naive are you? Where do you think the money comes from to pay for all this? Oh, you think it comes from the government or local council - I wonder where they get it from........

 

They print it, obviously.

 

Because their governments can do this, countries going bust are exceedingly rare. Also, counties don't die like humans, so lending to them is seen as a safe bet.

[peterboat]

3 hours ago, blackrose said:

 

Not even close to what? I said it was overpopulated not top of the list. But 34th out of 199 is much closer to the top than the bottom and in Europe I believe we're ranked 7th in terms of density of population.

 

Anyway, when I was growing up the population of the UK was pretty stable at around 56 million. Now we're closer to 68 million. I guess it's different for different people but to the people who say we're not overpopulated I have to ask, at what population figure would you be happy to say we're getting too crowded? 

We are also the 4th largest population in the world surprisingly 

[ditchcrawler]

14 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

Because their governments can do this, countries going bust are exceedingly rare. Also, counties don't die like humans, so lending to them is seen as a safe bet.

Now thats interesting, nearly every Country has a debt so who is lending the money?

 

[GUMPY]

https://www.container-housing.co.uk/

 

This seems a simple solution, cheaper than a NB, pity there can't be some Container Marinas but the locals would complain, not to mention those that would see it as infradig so wouldn't live in one

 

 

 

Edited November 18, 2023 by GUMPY
Auto mangle

[MtB]

Just now, ditchcrawler said:

Now thats interesting, nearly every Country has a debt so who is lending the money?

 

 

The citizens of the countries. 

 

 

[Jon57]

27 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

The citizens of the countries. 

 

 

 

28 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

Now thats interesting, nearly every Country has a debt so who is lending the money?

 

Plumbers obviously 👍

[Ken X]

What we need is a slogan. 

 

How about. "Stop the boats"

 

Oh, hang on....

[Alan de Enfield]

32 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

Now thats interesting, nearly every Country has a debt so who is lending the money?

 

 

This very question was asked some years ago and a University made a study and concluded it is the Chinese who are acting as the 'worlds central bankers'.

 

Investigation showed that as a nation the Chinese people are great 'savers' and the total money banked in China exceeds the worlds debt.

 

By various routes it is the Chinese banks that are funding pretty much every countries debt, in addition to buying up much of a countries land and assets - the research showed that China owned pretty much all of the West Coast of the USA.

 

IF - all of the loans were called in every (Western) country would be bankrupt.

[MtB]

52 minutes ago, Jon57 said:

 

Plumbers obviously 👍

 

I think you need to google the "Bond Market" to see how much our government is borrowing from its citzens. 

 

(Almost) every country has a bond market AFAIK. Cuba is probably an exception! 

Edited November 18, 2023 by MtB
Speeling.

[LadyG]

2 hours ago, MtB said:

 

They print it, obviously.

 

Because their governments can do this, countries going bust are exceedingly rare. Also, counties don't die like humans, so lending to them is seen as a safe bet.

Printing money leads to inflation, check out the German economic solution, people were being paid twice a day to allow them to buy food before it doubled in price, day in day out.

Edited November 18, 2023 by LadyG

[MtB]

21 minutes ago, LadyG said:

Printing money leads to inflation, check out the German economic solution, people were being paid twice a day to allow them to buy food before it doubled in price, day in day out.

 

 

Indeed it does, but that IS where governments get all the extra money needed to spend more than their income. 

 

 

 

So watch out if you decide to vote Labour. Rampant inflation, here it comes.

 

 

 

[Arthur Marshall]

18 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

 

Indeed it does, but that IS where governments get all the extra money needed to spend more than their income. 

 

 

 

So watch out if you decide to vote Labour. Rampant inflation, here it comes.

 

 

 

While I suppose this should now be in the politics ghetto, I really can't but remind you of who was in power when inflation went through the roof a few months ago, and who has built up the biggest national debt in history. Over a dozen or so years. And it isn't Labour. I don't understand why you want more of the same.

 

Actually, money doesn't really exist, either. That's why "confidence" in an economy, and its currency, is so important. It's just a medium of exchange, a way of making it easier to swap an hours work for a bit of bacon. Lose confidence in it, and all your coins and the magin numbers in your bank account, are worthless. You're back sweeping the shop floor for your bit of pig.

Edited November 18, 2023 by Arthur Marshall

[magnetman]

I buried a large amount of gold in 2001 to deal with this issue but I have forgotten where. 

[Arthur Marshall]

9 minutes ago, magnetman said:

I buried a large amount of gold in 2001 to deal with this issue but I have forgotten where. 

It's at the end of the rainbow, surely...

[MtB]

13 minutes ago, magnetman said:

I buried a large amount of gold in 2001 to deal with this issue but I have forgotten where. 

 

Oh that was YOUR'S was it? 

 

 

[Crewcut]

4 hours ago, Mike Tee said:

How naive are you? Where do you think the money comes from to pay for all this? Oh, you think it comes from the government or local council - I wonder where they get it from........

But I thought it came off the magic money trees, like the spaghetti...

[cuthound]

7 hours ago, blackrose said:

 

Not overpopulated by density... Really?

 

On a global scale it looks pretty crowded to me.

 

 

The problem with your "solution" it's that it's a very short term fix. What it does is actually create a circular and growing problem because increasing the population through immigration not only creates lots of problems in the countries from which the immigrants came such as skills shortages, but it also just leads to more old people in this country so then you have to let even more people in to care for the elderly immigrants and on it goes... It's not a long term solution, but of course you don't care about that because the soundbite is good and it suits your neo-liberal agenda. You're actually just as bad in that respect as the newspaper headlines you criticise.

 

Sounds like you prefer the Logan's Run solution, where the state doesn't allow people to get old...

[Cheese]

4 hours ago, peterboat said:

We are also the 4th largest population in the world surprisingly 

I don't think so!!  Did you mean 34th?