Helmsman Courses

[Momac]

47 minutes ago, Richard T said:

Came across a very cocky instructor at Calcutt in September, he was teaching on a trad boat. I was talking to a woman who was off another  boat that was waiting to go into the lock when he started sounding off about inexperienced hire boaters. He was firmly put in his place by the woman who pointed out that she was off the waiting boat whch was a hire one and that she and her partner were very experienced boaters who chose to use hire boats as a way of enjoying the canals!! I had a good laugh about this. It might have taught him to engage brain before sounding off but somehow I doubt it.

Professionalism  is clearly not necessarily a requirement when becoming an instructor.

The attitude of this person may well influence the trainees, and not in a good way .

[Tony Brooks]

12 hours ago, MartynG said:

Professionalism  is clearly not necessarily a requirement when becoming an instructor.

The attitude of this person may well influence the trainees, and not in a good way .

 

Absolutely illustrates why I have problems with the RYA way of "qualifying" their instructors and franchising their courses. This is why it is VITAL that anyone wanting a "RYA" course goes by personal recommendations, rather than trusting the brand

[Alan de Enfield]

2 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

Absolutely illustrates why I have problems with the RYA way of "qualifying" their instructors and franchising their courses. This is why it is VITAL that anyone wanting a "RYA" course goes by personal recommendations, rather than trusting the brand

 

Exactly the same as the rest of the 'industry'. There appears to be no 'quality control' for boat surveyors, BSS examiners, or even boat builders.

[Onewheeler]

Never heard of any requirement in the UK for inland boating, but I had a pleasant day out from tooley's boatyard in Banbury doing the ICC for the mainland.

Edited October 22, 2023 by Onewheeler
bloody autospell!

[GUMPY]

I did a course about 25 years ago to get my ICC.

There were 3 of us on the course under one instructor.

15 minutes into the course he asked me to run through lock operation with one of the students  so he could look after the other one on the boat we then swapped over and I took the boat 😉

I never did get assessed but still passed.

I had at that point been boating for over 20 years so had plenty of bad habits 🤔

[Vasco826]

Thank again to all offered comments and suggestions, really appreciated.  Having found a couple of places locally who will offer a course I've been put off by the price of at least £650 +VAT for 2 days on the water so will probably hire a boat for three days and encourage my good lady to spend as much time at the helm as possible - I'm confident that despite some bad habits I've certainly acquired she will get as much from doing it that way, and we get a short break afloat at the same time.  (Mind you, I remember when my Dad taught my Mum to drive a car ..... !)

 

 

[ditchcrawler]

1 hour ago, Vasco826 said:

  I'm confident that despite some bad habits I've certainly acquired she will get as much from doing it that way, and we get a short break afloat at the same time.  (Mind you, I remember when my Dad taught my Mum to drive a car ..... !)

 

 

I can guarantee she wont. I had a share boat for about 8 years before I did a course with @Tam & Di and learnt lots.

[nealeST]

On 21/10/2023 at 19:54, Richard T said:

she and her partner were very experienced boaters

I’d be wary of dismissing all hire boaters as inexperienced. True, people like me have start somewhere…(I’m 

not the one driving on the wrong side of the canal as I’ve witnessed privately owned boats on occasion)…some people hire boats for decades.

Edited December 15, 2023 by nealeST
Punctuation

[jonathanA]

You may find someone prepared to instruct on your boat rather than having to go to a "training centre" at a considerable cost saving. Some years ago I was looking for some training and found someone local who was happy to instruct me and her indoors on our boat.  For various reasons it didn't happen. I always thought we missed out. Seem to think it was somebody from this site but I could be wrong. 

[blackrose]

6 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

I can guarantee she wont. I had a share boat for about 8 years before I did a course with @Tam & Di and learnt lots.

 

I don't think you can really guarantee anything about these courses. As others have said it's very hit & miss. Even if someone recommends a certain course you might end up with a different instructor on the day (not the one you did clearly).

 

I did a RYA course at Limehouse about 10 years ago to get my CEVNI. The course included the inland helmsman's certificate and I have to say on that part I learned very little at all. The instructor decided it was too windy to go out onto the river so we just practiced some manoeuvres in the basin on his grp cruiser. At one point he told me to do a circle (clockwise) and land back on the pontoon. I asked him if it wouldn't be better to go anticlockwise so that I ended up coming alongside the pontoon into the wind (rather than being blown along when trying to stop on a light boat). He said yes ok, good idea. I don't think that was the test, he just hadn't thought about the wind.

 

As with current, given the choice it's always better to manoeuvre into the wind rather than with it.

Edited December 15, 2023 by blackrose

[Momac]

I did the Helmsman course before I bought a boat which is really what it is designed for.

So anyone with significant experience us not going to gain a lot from it. But if it opens the  door to insurance options and reduces premiums  then could be well worth it .

6 hours ago, blackrose said:

 

 

As with current, given the choice it's always better to manoeuvre into the wind rather than with it.

I recall the instruction I had on the Helmsman course   was very much including the use of wind and anticipating how the boat will react.  Just shows how the quality of instruction varies. We also went through a lock which I would have thought fairly important on that course.

 

[Mike Todd]

19 hours ago, nealeST said:

I’d be wary of dismissing all hire boaters as inexperienced. True, people like me have start somewhere…(I’m 

not the one driving on the wrong side of the canal as I’ve witnessed privately owned boats on occasion)…some people hire boats for decades.

There is no rule/law about which side of the canal you must navigate - you can go wherever you see fit in the circumstances. However,  with a very few exceptions, you must pass on the right. Common misunderstanding?

[Annie cariad]

Collage and partners no drama been with them for years 

[Tonka]

12 minutes ago, Annie cariad said:

Collage and partners no drama been with them for years 

Are you sure as I thought collage was a paper picture

[ditchcrawler]

I have seen JD Boats at Galey doing training and they looked good, not something I would have the patience for 

[nealeST]

8 hours ago, Mike Todd said:

you must pass on the right

Yep, I much prefer to use the middle of the canal but some none hire boats I have encountered whilst exercising the same preference neglect the mandate that vessels that meet head on, should both steer to starboard (to the right) and pass each other Port to Port (or left hand side to left hand side). Or is it ‘cos I is a hire boater?

 

[Mike Todd]

11 hours ago, nealeST said:

Yep, I much prefer to use the middle of the canal but some none hire boats I have encountered whilst exercising the same preference neglect the mandate that vessels that meet head on, should both steer to starboard (to the right) and pass each other Port to Port (or left hand side to left hand side). Or is it ‘cos I is a hire boater?

 

In some contexts this makes passing easier as it minimises the time spent in the bushes or shallow towpath edges - as the boats pass each pulls the bow of the other back into the centre line almost without having to steer, other than to straighten up again. Done well, it is quite a balletic 'docey-do' (OK so mixing dance styles!)

[Up-Side-Down]

On 14/12/2023 at 17:31, Vasco826 said:

Thank again to all offered comments and suggestions, really appreciated.  Having found a couple of places locally who will offer a course I've been put off by the price of at least £650 +VAT for 2 days on the water so will probably hire a boat for three days and encourage my good lady to spend as much time at the helm as possible - I'm confident that despite some bad habits I've certainly acquired she will get as much from doing it that way, and we get a short break afloat at the same time.  (Mind you, I remember when my Dad taught my Mum to drive a car ..... !)

 

 

The Edinburgh-based Sorted Project offer the 2-day RYA Helmsman's course for £250 per person – either 2 or 3 people and no VAT. Should be enough over to fund a weekend break in the city as well!

[RAB]

We went on a non RYA helmsman course, guessing 12 years ago. Won't mention any names but the chap was excellent, but I believe, wasn't RYA approved as he refused to only teach the approved RYA method of mooring (i.e. bow first, crew get off the bow, tie up the bow, then slow forward to pull the stern in), think I've got that right! His view was how many people really do that,  especially as a lot may be operating single handed and if your about to enter a lock someone has to go back through the boat to close the bow doors. He therefore believed they should also be taught how to moor by being able to step off the stern first. Regards the RYA training bit is this true/false (or has it changed?) does anyone know?

Anyway bottom line, in my view, is that good experience is better than bad practice from a training book.

PS the training doesn't stop me from making a right hash of mooring up occasionally 🤔

[ditchcrawler]

5 minutes ago, RAB said:

 

PS the training doesn't stop me from making a right hash of mooring up occasionally 🤔

I think that is true for most of us

[Col_T]

Cheshire Cat advertise ‘ladies only’ training courses, which your wife may prefer. Prices are on their website, but that doesn’t look completely uptodate, as it reckons the next course is in August!

[Captain Pegg]

On 16/12/2023 at 21:06, RAB said:

We went on a non RYA helmsman course, guessing 12 years ago. Won't mention any names but the chap was excellent, but I believe, wasn't RYA approved as he refused to only teach the approved RYA method of mooring (i.e. bow first, crew get off the bow, tie up the bow, then slow forward to pull the stern in), think I've got that right! His view was how many people really do that,  especially as a lot may be operating single handed and if your about to enter a lock someone has to go back through the boat to close the bow doors. He therefore believed they should also be taught how to moor by being able to step off the stern first. Regards the RYA training bit is this true/false (or has it changed?) does anyone know?

Anyway bottom line, in my view, is that good experience is better than bad practice from a training book.

PS the training doesn't stop me from making a right hash of mooring up occasionally 🤔

That information is false. The RYA handbook has methods for coming alongside using either the bow and stern lines or the centre line. The latter method is shown for both a crew member stepping off the bow or a single hander stepping off at the stern.

 

The instructions are explicit that you should not put a line around a bollard while the boat is moving, and that while the boat is in gear the line should be held slack.

[David Mack]

On 20/12/2023 at 08:57, Captain Pegg said:

The instructions are explicit that you should not put a line around a bollard while the boat is moving, and that while the boat is in gear the line should be held slack.

So you can never strap a boat to a stop by controlled use of a line around a bollard?

In some situations use of reverse gear to bring the boat to completely stop all forward motion will result in the stern kicking out sideways so the steerer can't step off with the rope. In such circumstances strapping on a bollard can be much more effective.

[blackrose]

1 hour ago, David Mack said:

So you can never strap a boat to a stop by controlled use of a line around a bollard?

In some situations use of reverse gear to bring the boat to completely stop all forward motion will result in the stern kicking out sideways so the steerer can't step off with the rope. In such circumstances strapping on a bollard can be much more effective.

 

The stern may kick out initially when you go into astern, but anyone who knows what they're doing should be able to bring it back into the landing. I always stop my boat on the engine because being 29 tonnes if I attempted to use a bollard it's likely to rip some bollards out of the ground. That kind of damage to infrastructure can be done by narrow boats too if they're going fast enough.

 

Anyway, if I can bring the stern of my widebeam in, get off and tie up single handed I'm sure people on smaller boats can do it. 

 

I guess to some degree it depends what you mean by "effective". It might be quicker to stop a boat on a bollard but there should be no reason to rush and we've probably all seen bollards ripped out the ground which certainly isn't effective. In part it depends on how fast the boat is going. Bringing the boat to a very gentle stop using a bollard is fine of course, otherwise it shouldn't be used as an alternative to handling the boat properly.

Edited December 22, 2023 by blackrose

[David Mack]

28 minutes ago, blackrose said:

Anyway, if I can bring the stern of my widebeam in, get off and tie up single handed I'm sure people on smaller boats can do it. 

My experience is with larger boats. A deep drafted ex working boat with large slow running prop will produce much more prop walk which can take the stern sideways when you reverse, particularly where the bottom is too close to the top.