hull survey

[epic]

I know the boat and the owner,he has owned it for 30 years, he had it plated 10 years ago and now has just come out of dry dock after blacking. I also know the person who blacked it and he never saw anything obviously  wrong with the boat. So do i insure it 3 party until i can get surveyed and then if and when it is ok insure it fully. Is there any people just insure there boats 3rd party

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

6 minutes ago, epic said:

I know the boat and the owner,he has owned it for 30 years, he had it plated 10 years ago and now has just come out of dry dock after blacking. I also know the person who blacked it and he never saw anything obviously  wrong with the boat. So do i insure it 3 party until i can get surveyed and then if and when it is ok insure it fully. Is there any people just insure there boats 3rd party

If you have bought the boat then yes that’s a way to go. 

 

Often things aren’t obviously wrong which is why we pay so much for a good surveyor. 
 

[epic]

I have not bought the boat yet, but thinking about it my only concern is just having 3rd party insurance.

 

how many boaters have just 3rd party insurance

[Alan de Enfield]

14 hours ago, epic said:

Is there any people just insure there boats 3rd party

 

Yes, but I'd suggest it is generally those at the 'lower end' of the scale who have boats that would fail a survey and who cannot afford to get the work done, and, those at the other end of the scale, those who can afford to lose everything if it sinks and just don't care.

[epic]

thanks for your help, does any one know of a insurance company who will insure fully comp without a survey

[MtB]

4 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Yes, but I'd suggest it is generally those at the 'lower end' of the scale who have boats that would fail a survey and who cannot afford to get the work done, and, those at the other end of the scale, those who can afford to lose everything if it sinks and just don't care.

 

 

I disagree. 

 

There will also be those for who loss of the boat would be no big deal and who see no particular need to pay for more insurance cover than is actually mandatory. Those same people who see maybe two or three narrowboats sink each year out of many thousands that don't, and can assess the actual risk realistically instead of being panicked by the insurance industry into paying hundreds of quid in extra premia for cover against a vanishingly unlikely loss. And also observe that in a sinking the boat is rarely a total loss anyway, sinking in three feet of water. Most are back in service a few weeks later. 

[Alan de Enfield]

4 minutes ago, epic said:

thanks for your help, does any one know of a insurance company who will insure fully comp without a survey

 

All of them until your boat gets to a certain age (which commences, usually betwen 20 and 30 years, but I think all of them require a survey above 30 years of age).

 

 

 

Edited June 29, 2023 by Alan de Enfield

[IanD]

20 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

I disagree. 

 

There will also be those for who loss of the boat would be no big deal and who see no particular need to pay for more insurance cover than is actually mandatory. Those same people who see maybe two or three narrowboats sink each year out of many thousands that don't, and can assess the actual risk realistically instead of being panicked by the insurance industry into paying hundreds of quid in extra premia for cover against a vanishingly unlikely loss. And also observe that in a sinking the boat is rarely a total loss anyway, sinking in three feet of water. Most are back in service a few weeks later. 

 

That's the same principle where some big companies (BT springs to mind) didn't bother taking out insurance via an insurance company for their vehicles, they just paid out any claims themselves. I believe it saved them a lot of money and avoided a lot of disputes and paperwork. But you have to have deep enough pockets to pay out any losses and claims...

 

Third party insurance is needed for boats in case of a possible massive claim for loss of life or damage, but comprehensive cover probably isn't a good deal for a lot of boaters as @MtB says -- so long as you can afford the loss should the worst happen.

[epic]

If a boat sinks what is needed to raise the boat, would it have to be a Crane, to lift it out and then transport it to have it repaired and at what cost

Edited June 29, 2023 by epic
miss spelt

[Lady M]

Sometimes big pumps are used, patch boat up or cover with tarp then tow to a dock/craning out place for repair.  You'll want to make sure your insurance includes cover for salvage.

[Peanut]

Having lost a boat to fire, the marina now insists on you having a wreck recovery clause in your insurance.  CRT should do the same.

[Mad Harold]

17 hours ago, epic said:

The problem I have, I am buying a boat which I know is in the lower end bracket price range. But where we are there are no places available to put it into dry dock and also with the closure of canals for a few months which makes matters worse.  I could insure the boat 3rd party and then when the canals open and there is a place in dry dock book in for a survey. What do you all think

I did just that when I bought an old steel narrowboat.

Nearest dry dock was booked up for two months, so third party + salvage untill the hull survey.

If I was to do it again, I wouldnt bother with the survey and comprehensive insurance, but I would check that the third party insurance covers salvage recovery, as not all do.

Having said this, a survey is a good idea if you are new to canal boating.

[Mike Adams]

I wonder how many boats actually sink due to a defect or corrosion on the hull. Not many I suspect. Unless you get a sudden failure of a doubler plate or if you start to get over enthusiastic with a hammer inside any leaks you get would be slow and manageable with a decent bilge pump.

Third party and wreck removal is essential but if you are working at the cheap end of the market I am not sure fully comp makes sense. Insurers are notorious for not paying out so if your boat went down due to a corrosion issue I doubt they would pay citing failure of maintenance. A survey and docking adds a lot to the cost of running an old boat

[Lady M]

A sudden sinking can occur if a weak part of the boat hull strikes an underwater obstruction.

[Mad Harold]

4 minutes ago, Lady C said:

A sudden sinking can occur if a weak part of the boat hull strikes an underwater obstruction.

It would need to be a substantial obstruction.Having scraped over a shopping trolley, a wheelbarrow and an office chair, and been speared by a scaffold pole that I didn't see, ( not all on the same day)and only collected scratches and dents.

Working bilge pump is essential and a tube of Milliput is handy for minor hull leaks.

[Mike Adams]

1 hour ago, Lady C said:

A sudden sinking can occur if a weak part of the boat hull strikes an underwater obstruction.

Have you ever seen this happen to a narrow boat?

[David Mack]

1 hour ago, Lady C said:

A sudden sinking can occur if a weak part of the boat hull strikes an underwater obstruction.

If it happens while the boat is under way, the crew are likely to notice sooner or later. This tends to prompt action with the bilge pump, bailing with a bucket or whatever, and trying to identify where the leak is, maybe including lifting of floorboard etc. And if the leak is found a lump of clay and a couple of bricks on top will slow the leak to enable you to get to the nearest boatyard where professional help can be sought, or even just beach the boat in shallow water, so that if it does go down it won't go too far and the water damage will be minimised.

 

Stories of this actually happening seem to be far less common than tales of people who have been boating happily unaware for years, only to have a surveyor put a hammer through the hull when on dock.

[ditchcrawler]

10 minutes ago, David Mack said:

If it happens while the boat is under way, the crew are likely to notice sooner or later. This tends to prompt action with the bilge pump, bailing with a bucket or whatever, and trying to identify where the leak is, maybe including lifting of floorboard etc. And if the leak is found a lump of clay and a couple of bricks on top will slow the leak to enable you to get to the nearest boatyard where professional help can be sought, or even just beach the boat in shallow water, so that if it does go down it won't go too far and the water damage will be minimised.

 

Stories of this actually happening seem to be far less common than tales of people who have been boating happily unaware for years, only to have a surveyor put a hammer through the hull when on dock.

I would love to know all the details Yorkshire canal boat record store sinks due to polluted canal - YorkshireLive (examinerlive.co.uk)

[Mike Todd]

4 hours ago, IanD said:

 

That's the same principle where some big companies (BT springs to mind) didn't bother taking out insurance via an insurance company for their vehicles, they just paid out any claims themselves. I believe it saved them a lot of money and avoided a lot of disputes and paperwork. But you have to have deep enough pockets to pay out any losses and claims...

 

Third party insurance is needed for boats in case of a possible massive claim for loss of life or damage, but comprehensive cover probably isn't a good deal for a lot of boaters as @MtB says -- so long as you can afford the loss should the worst happen.

Not really deep pockets in the sense of being especially wealthy,  more a matter of having sufficiently large portfolio to make the statistics comparable with an insurance company. 

[TheBiscuits]

1 hour ago, Mike Todd said:

Not really deep pockets in the sense of being especially wealthy,  more a matter of having sufficiently large portfolio to make the statistics comparable with an insurance company. 

 

I seem to recall from decades ago that the company had to keep ten(?) million quid in a trust account to self insure - whatever the max payout per accident was at the time.

 

If they had this available in reserves, then not paying motor insurance premiums on fleet vehicles saved them an absolute fortune.

[magnetman]

I've only ever had 3rd party for the boats. I hate donating money to shareholders and company bosses. 

 

It is a legal requirement to have insurance for the purposes of licensing/registering the boat. If it wasn't they would not get a penny off me. 

 

I can see why it is a requirement no I have never had a claim. 

[Slim]

This time last year I was quoted £400 for a hull survey in the Banbury (South Oxford) area. Survey was undertaken late Sept and the price remained the same. Well respected surveyor. Cost excluded slipping etc.

Insure4Boats don't require a survey until the hull is 30 years old.

 

Note. I had it done for peace of mind before selling ., fortunately it was a very good survey.

 

Added. 55' hull.

 

 

[MtB]

5 hours ago, Lady C said:

A sudden sinking can occur if a weak part of the boat hull strikes an underwater obstruction.

 

 

Could you bung up a list of all the boats sunk recently by this method, please?

 

Much obliged.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

 

Could you bung up a list of all the boats sunk recently by this method, please?

 

Much obliged.

 

I think the suggestion is merely a theoretical possibility, it doesnt actually mean there is a 'list' of boats that have floundered in this manner.

 

Hope that helps.

[Tonka]

10 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

 

Could you bung up a list of all the boats sunk recently by this method, please?

 

Much obliged.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Titanic

 

 

 

 

Somebody had to do it