Electric boat for sale

[Alan de Enfield]

6 minutes ago, magnetman said:

I thought the electric boat discount was for electric boats. 

 

 

The discount is ONLY for boats whose sole means of propulsion is electric.

 

If it can be driven directly by the engine - no discount.

[magnetman]

Presumably they don't search the boat for hidden diesel gensets then. 

[Jerra]

Excuse my ignorance.  With the serial hybrid, the diesel generator looked, in the video, to be substantially less than a diesel required to power the boat on its own.  Is this correct?

[MtB]

9 minutes ago, magnetman said:

Presumably they don't search the boat for hidden diesel gensets then. 

 

They don't care how the battery is charged, provided the propulsion is electric. Charging the battery buy burning diesel is fine acording to CRT, whixh makes a mockery of the ethos behind converting to electric.

[Jerra]

1 minute ago, MtB said:

 

They don't care how the battery is charged, provided the propulsion is electric. Charging the battery buy burning diesel is fine acording to CRT, whixh makes a mockery of the ethos behind converting to electric.

That was the point of my question above.  If the generator is smaller than the diesel required to drive the boat then there are environmental gains i.e. less fuel burned which results in fewer particulates. (even if the gennie had to run all the time you were cruising.)

[magnetman]

4 minutes ago, Jerra said:

Excuse my ignorance.  With the serial hybrid, the diesel generator looked, in the video, to be substantially less than a diesel required to power the boat on its own.  Is this correct?

Yes. This is not a problem provided that the batteries and the motor are specced to be able to propel the boat. 

 

Point being that a lot of the time, especially on canals, the power required to propel the boat is actually very low. Proper batteries and electric drive motor can deal with occasional peaks required during man oovering. 

[Jerra]

1 minute ago, magnetman said:

Yes. This is not a problem provided that the batteries and the motor are specced to be able to propel the boat. 

 

Point being that a lot of the time, especially on canals, the power required to propel the boat is actually very low. Proper batteries and electric drive motor can deal with occasional peaks required during man oovering. 

Thank you.

[magnetman]

There is a third option which I think could work really well if done right. 

 

Keep the existing diesel engine and build a pod motor into the rudder. You could then have electric drive as and when according to battery power availability and also have a reliable diesel unit which everyone knows is a good way to push a boat along. 

 

Two completely different drive setups also means you could lose one and be able to use the other. 

 

Yes it would mean some issues with rudder bearings obviously but something I have noticed is that when you really want to use the rudder for man 'ovvering it often involves the boat not wanting to be going faster. Directional thrust would be really nice here. 

 

Variable speed control on the end of the tiller. 

 

Keep the original rudder in case it all turns out to be a load of nonsense.

 

 

[ditchcrawler]

3 hours ago, MtB said:

 

You really don't understand do you? At first I thought you were just being perverse. 

 

It's so the boat has "electric drive" which confers upon the owner 10% discount from the license fee and bragging rights in the pub.

 

Obvious now, innit?

 

 

 

 

Or sell it in short time when circumstances change 

2 hours ago, magnetman said:

Yes it would mean some issues with rudder bearings obviously  

 

 

They have successfully put hydraulic motors in rudders  without bearing problems

[mrsmelly]

4 hours ago, Athy said:

Precisely. It is obviously, therefore, serviceable. If the boat had no batteries, the Beta 43, being a provenly reliable and widely-used diesel engine, would be able to propel the boat all on its ownsome. So why encumber it with electric gadgetry and sting customers for another forty thou?

Ahhhhhhhh, cos its GREEN diesel innitt 🤣

[David Mack]

3 hours ago, magnetman said:

Keep the existing diesel engine and build a pod motor into the rudder.

How much drag would the existing diesel engine prop add if travelling at normal speed under pod power?

[junior]

On 07/04/2023 at 13:50, matty40s said:

My 2012 1.6 diesel mondeo can get almost 70 mpg if I drive sensibly, I can also get about 750 miles worth of fuel in the tank.

Kathy's 2020 Toyota CHR runs at about 40 ish mpg and she can get about 340 miles in the tank.

Progress??

What happened to the Skoda Octavia?

[peterboat]

On 07/04/2023 at 08:56, MtB said:

The 10% CRT licence discount for diesel-powered electric drive is unsustainable from a logic point of view. I can see  good case for that getting deleted in the licence fee review under way at the moment. 

25% please

On 07/04/2023 at 09:18, Athy said:

The internet tells me that prices have risen over 50% since 2012, which would make that £65,000 bout £100,000 in today's money, so the increase is slightly above he general rate of rising prices.

   But that's aaprice for a new boat: we are often told that new boats lose a great deal of their value (20%?) in their first year, so a price of over £150,000 for a second-hand narrowboat is at best optimistic, and at worst just plain barmy.

Its mostly proper widebeams that have increased the most, 57 x 12 or above

5 hours ago, roland elsdon said:

The engine is to warm the environment while charging the less than one hundred percent efficient batteries.

Then the batteries will warm the electric drive train ( and themselves) while ( at less than 100% efficency) driving the less than 100 efficent electric motors through gently warm cables.

 

The owner will be gently warmed by the hum of greenwarming  sorry greenwashing brought about by the term hybrid.

 

Hybrid only works if you can plug it in to a green source to charge frequently.

in the absence of that its just a way of making fossil fuels less efficient.

 

Unlike my hb2 which warms the cabin and turns carbon into lots of noise while its running.

5kw of solar on it would help greatly like it does on mine 

I cruised around last year mostly on solar, it's a grand way to travel far better than a noisy diesel.  Manoeuvring is great as electric motors are very controllable in comparison to a diesel. My genny is only a small 6kw unit 500cc I think? It operates at it's most efficient RPM so is cleaner and cheaper to run than 2 plus litre diesel. Its also handy having lots of battery power available 46kwhs now so 2 weeks in the wild is a doddle. I wouldn't go back to a straight diesel drive it just doesn't work very well, noisy, even at tick over its often to fast and then there's the loads of fuel used and fumes in a lock terribly nasty stuff

[Athy]

5 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Lets make it simple ..........

 

Engine runs a generator

Generator charges batteries

Batteries power an electric motor

Electric motor turns the prop shaft

Prop shaft rotates the propellor.

Yes, and what powers tat engine. Diesel, I fancy.

 

That's simple, indeed.

[peterboat]

6 minutes ago, Athy said:

Yes, and what powers tat engine. Diesel, I fancy.

 

That's simple, indeed.

Can be solar, in fact all the electric boats have lots of solar so no diesel is often not required 

[Athy]

1 minute ago, peterboat said:

 no diesel is often not required 

Diesel is usually required, then? Yes, as I thought.

4 hours ago, Paul C said:

 

A diesel engine is more efficient at higher power than lower power. So with proper management, it can run 1) more efficiently, 2) when the boater chooses it to, instead of its being required to run when propulsion is needed.

 

Of course, 1) needs the additional consideration of, is it more efficient to run the engine (efficiently) but then have the losses from charging, then discharging, batteries together with the losses of an electric motor (which aren't that much). And 2) might be "when the batteries need charging and/or hot water is needed" than simply when the boater chooses to, if the battery bank becomes depleted for example.

 

That's a hybrid.

 

If it were to be able to plug in, its the car equivalent of a "plug in hybrid" and that requirement to run the diesel may be mitigated to less and less; or indeed never - for example if you plugged in A LOT and did very little boating (and had some alternate way to produce domestic hot water). At that point, it behaves like an electric boat with a small motor and a small (compared to a fully electric boat, but big compared to a conventional boat) battery bank.

 

Add solar and the 'plug in' mitigations are gifted, when its sunny.

 So, a diesel-powered boat which has a solar panel on its roof is the best buy, you're saying? That sounds reasonable.

[peterboat]

4 minutes ago, Athy said:

Diesel is usually required, then? Yes, as I thought.

No diesel is the exception in my boat 5 kws of solar and some others have even more! You have to start thinking differently Athy think quiet rather than noisy and smelly 

[Paul C]

7 hours ago, Athy said:

 

 So, a diesel-powered boat which has a solar panel on its roof is the best buy, you're saying? That sounds reasonable.

 

Its technically the best, but "best buy" - you'd need to do a bunch of sums regarding the capital cost vs savings from less/no diesel. And if you plug in, factor that in too. And predict the cost of diesel (and electricity) well into the future, since it will surely be a long payback thing.

 

I suspect those opting for hybrid now, are doing it for reasons other than lower overall costs.

[Oddjob]

On 07/04/2023 at 14:43, IanD said:

 

I do believe *you're* well out of touch given price rises over the last couple of years... 😉

 

DAMHIK... 😞

Probably closer to £40k today for a high-end series hybrid with a big LFP battery bank...

I was in Debdale and a new electric boat was just being finished. Spoke to owner battery bank cost was £40,000 he’ll of a price to pay that to 5kva gen set in the well deck up front. What a waste of money in my view. 

[matty40s]

10 hours ago, junior said:

What happened to the Skoda Octavia?

At 331000 miles, it was going to cost over a grand to get it through its next MOT, and as aircon, turbo had already failed, bit the bullet and scrapped it, damn good car.

[peterboat]

2 hours ago, Paul C said:

 

Its technically the best, but "best buy" - you'd need to do a bunch of sums regarding the capital cost vs savings from less/no diesel. And if you plug in, factor that in too. And predict the cost of diesel (and electricity) well into the future, since it will surely be a long payback thing.

 

I suspect those opting for hybrid now, are doing it for reasons other than lower overall costs.

Solar is relatively cheap if you do it yourself, same as converting to electric drive. I know it helps that I have an engineering background, but plenty fit solar and for many electric drive capable of moving every 2 weeks would be a dream come true!

1 hour ago, Oddjob said:

I was in Debdale and a new electric boat was just being finished. Spoke to owner battery bank cost was £40,000 he’ll of a price to pay that to 5kva gen set in the well deck up front. What a waste of money in my view. 

I paid 2.5I for a 36kwhs lifepo4 battery bank, secondhand last seen powering London buses! Still working after 4 years in my boat, I expect them to do many more years service, they are equipped with BMS and are connected to each other with factory leads

[IanD]

4 hours ago, Paul C said:

 

Its technically the best, but "best buy" - you'd need to do a bunch of sums regarding the capital cost vs savings from less/no diesel. And if you plug in, factor that in too. And predict the cost of diesel (and electricity) well into the future, since it will surely be a long payback thing.

 

I suspect those opting for hybrid now, are doing it for reasons other than lower overall costs.

Correct, the fuel cost saving with a hybrid will probably never make up for the higher installation cost. Silent cruising is the reason people are doing this, but it's not cheap.

You can also use the fact that it's greener, especially if there's enough solar power to reduce generator use.

3 hours ago, Oddjob said:

I was in Debdale and a new electric boat was just being finished. Spoke to owner battery bank cost was £40,000 he’ll of a price to pay that to 5kva gen set in the well deck up front. What a waste of money in my view. 

Even a big LFP battery bank -- 48V 700Ah in my case -- costs less than half that. The next biggest cost is a cocooned diesel generator, the motor and controller are the third item. £40k is for everything including a 10kVA inverter.

[Paul C]

22 minutes ago, IanD said:

Correct, the fuel cost saving with a hybrid will probably never make up for the higher installation cost. Silent cruising is the reason people are doing this, but it's not cheap.

You can also use the fact that it's greener, especially if there's enough solar power to reduce generator use.

 

 

Weirdly, we've been asked about 27 times "is your boat electric?" when its gone past, its so quiet. Its a conventional diesel, but just well installed and with a hospital silencer. Its not silent when driving though, but its certainly not loud enough to be an issue. Obviously it has none of the green credentials of an electric drive and still uses diesel, emits emissions, etc.

[Tonka]

Have a look at how the solar panels are connected. To me it looks dangerous, you are either going to trip on the cable or break the connection where it joins the solar panel. Also what is the silly lights on the side of the cabin all about. The boat moored next to me at Calcutt. Never saw it move. The front cover spent most of the time half off and the rear cover was left on the roof

[Athy]

2 hours ago, IanD said:

, the fuel cost saving with a hybrid will probably never make up for the higher installation cost. Silent cruising is the reason people are doing this, but it's not cheap.

 

Does anyone on the canals really want that? The sound of a diesel engine, be it a burping Bolinder or a bumbling Barrus, is part of the attraction and ambience of the inland waterways. Are there people who actually wish to pay far more money for something completely lacking in character? I suppose the ability to scare the bejasus out of waterside fishermen may be an advantage for some, but that pleasure comes at a high price.