Boat dwellers to be able to claim the £400 energy allowance.

[doratheexplorer]

10 minutes ago, IanD said:

Renting out a home that you normally live in while you're not there is a very different case to most landlords, including the good ones on this forum as well as the bad ones elsewhere... 😉

 

Anybody who buys properties other than their main one to rent out is doing it as an investment and a way to make money; denying this is simply ignoring reality. They may well see it as the only way to ensure a secure retirement for themselves because pensions are crap, but unless the rent at least covers the running and finance costs (and they then benefit from long-term rises in house prices) they wouldn't be doing it -- if they really wanted to be altruistic and help people as the main objective, there are far better (and less profitable) uses for their money than BTL/renting, however nice they are to their tenants.

 

Yes there is a need for rental properties, and some landlords do treat their tenants well -- but the inescapable fact it that with the way housing market in the UK works renting over a lifetime costs a lot more than buying, and effectively transfers money out of the pockets of renters (often poorer) into those of landlords (often richer) -- who may well be providing a useful service, but fundamentally are doing it to make money. Come on guys, it's not Brexit, man up and own the issue instead of denying it 🙂

 

You could of course say that any job is essentially a way of moving money from somebody else's pockets to yours, often with a negative effect on the people doing the paying -- but doing this with something as fundamental as a safe warm secure place to live doesn't exactly put landlords at the top of the morality tree, does it?

Thank you.  This is exactly it.

 

Watching the landlords on here wriggle around and turn cartwheels to try and present themselves as saints for what they do, is frankly embarrassing.  By all means be a landlord but stop making out like the rest of us should be grateful to you for keeping the poor from living in cardboard boxes.

[ditchcrawler]

Back to the thread title I have just had a scam text, the wording was so good you would think its from a government department ?

 

Hi +447887*****

GOV ALLERT

Claim your cost of living

energy rebate now, Visit

http://verify.rebate.hm-cr.site

[Jon57]

13 minutes ago, IanD said:

Renting out a home that you normally live in while you're not there is a very different case to most landlords, including the good ones on this forum as well as the bad ones elsewhere... 😉

 

Anybody who buys properties other than their main one to rent out is doing it as an investment and a way to make money; denying this is simply ignoring reality. They may well see it as the only way to ensure a secure retirement for themselves because pensions are crap, but unless the rent at least covers the running and finance costs (and they then benefit from long-term rises in house prices) they wouldn't be doing it -- if they really wanted to be altruistic and help people as the main objective, there are far better (and less profitable) uses for their money than BTL/renting, however nice they are to their tenants.

 

Yes there is a need for rental properties, and some landlords do treat their tenants well -- but the inescapable fact it that with the way housing market in the UK works renting over a lifetime costs a lot more than buying, and effectively transfers money out of the pockets of renters (often poorer) into those of landlords (often richer) -- who may well be providing a useful service, but fundamentally are doing it to make money. Come on guys, it's not Brexit, man up and own the issue instead of denying it 🙂

 

You could of course say that any job is essentially a way of moving money from somebody else's pockets to yours, often with a negative effect on the people doing the paying -- but doing this with something as fundamental as a safe warm secure place to live doesn't exactly put landlords at the top of the morality tree, does it?

We became accidentally landlords with the passing away of a family member. Last tenants stayed for 6 years. They got to retirement age and needed to downsize (3bed house) as they needed something smaller and easy to run. The rent I charged them was way less than the going rate. New tenants are a young couple just starting out in life they were over the moon with the house and have just renewed their tenancy at the the going rate. Which is 22% more than what I was charging the first tennat. I don't feel guilty or savy. Just a g outcome for both parties. 

I could I suppose sold the house and had a boat built but it's my choice so everyones happy. 

Anyway can't have 2 boats at once unless is remote controlled 👍

[IanD]

Just now, Jon57 said:

We became accidentally landlords with the passing away of a family member. Last tenants stayed for 6 years. They got to retirement age and needed to downsize (3bed house) as they needed something smaller and easy to run. The rent I charged them was way less than the going rate. New tenants are a young couple just starting out in life they were over the moon with the house and have just renewed their tenancy at the the going rate. Which is 22% more than what I was charging the first tennat. I don't feel guilty or savy. Just a g outcome for both parties. 

I could I suppose sold the house and had a boat built but it's my choice so everyones happy. 

Anyway can't have 2 boats at once unless is remote controlled 👍

Again, there's a fundamental difference between inheriting a house and going and and buying houses to rent -- one is something that just happened to you, the other is a deliberate strategy to make money.

 

But given how high "the going rate" for rental is and how much it's gone up recently, surely if you wanted to feel good you should be renting it at *below* the market rate, like social housing? Especially since there is presumably no mortgage (or a small one) on the property, so your costs are low?

 

[Jon57]

3 minutes ago, IanD said:

Again, there's a fundamental difference between inheriting a house and going and and buying houses to rent -- one is something that just happened to you, the other is a deliberate strategy to make money.

 

But given how high "the going rate" for rental is and how much it's gone up recently, surely if you wanted to feel good you should be renting it at *below* the market rate, like social housing? Especially since there is presumably no mortgage (or a small one) on the property, so your costs are low?

 

The 22% increase is before the present rise in rents. I've not increased it this time, unlike many landlords. I'm happy with that so are the young couple. I'm very comfortable with that. 

 

 

[Guest]

Daughter 2's landlord has raised her rent 3 times in recent months. Trying to keep up with his BTL mortgage rate obviously. Something you can't really blame him for and he his pretty good in other respects.

 

But she has finally seen the light that paying somebody else's mortgage is just folly.

 

Daughter 1's landlord hasn't but I think that is because they own the house outright and she doesn't want to lose them as tenants, as the previous ones were dire.

Edited January 10, 2023 by M_JG

[enigmatic]

57 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

Back to the thread title I have just had a scam text, the wording was so good you would think its from a government department ?

 

Hi +447887*****

GOV ALLERT

Claim your cost of living

energy rebate now, Visit

http://verify.rebate.hm-cr.site

I forward all those scam SMSes to the Action Fraud number 7726 

https://www.ncsc.gov.uk/collection/phishing-scams/report-scam-text-message

which is supposed to get the messages blocked and the sender investigated (and should also be able to get the dodgy fake websites taken down)

 

Some of them are more convincing than that one!

[frangar]

18 hours ago, nbfiresprite said:

More than half of the class of 83 attended the funeral in Broadstone, So he had a good sendoff and the funds left over were given to the local food bank to help with energy costs.  

Getting back on subject, I had a chat with Jackie about what her council had been told by Whitehall. She has since got back to me with the information that she has.

 

Energy Bills Support Scheme (EBSS) Alternative Funding.

The criteria for this funding is:

• The household that support is being claimed for is the main or only home address of the person to receive the support.

• The resident or applicant is responsible for paying the household energy bill. This means either as part of a service charge, rent, or other arrangement and may have had the impact of increased energy bills costs passed on to them between 1 October 2022 - 31 March 2023.

• The household is not already receiving EBSS payments in whole or in part.

• The household is not a business premises or other form of non-domestic premises. It must be used solely or mainly for domestic purposes.

following people are eligible: 

• care home residents

• residents of park homes

• tenants in certain private and social rented homes

• homes supplied via private grid

• residents of houseboats on registered moorings

• residents of caravans on registered sites

• farmers living in domestic farmhouses

• off-grid households

• Travellers on registered sites

The Council will make the support payments to applicants bank accounts once appropriate checks have been made. First payments expected to be made by the emd of the month.

"Registered site" allows for a load of wriggle room on behalf of the local council or Government....eg In my marina there are 11 full resi berths for use by marina employees only (as per the planning permission)...however far more people live on boats here to a greater or lesser extent....and dont pay council tax....The marina does have a "high intensity" charge allowing post etc....will be interesting to see what happens if we are allowed to apply without full residential status....could open a whole can of worms resulting in breach of planning or retrospective council tax.

[ditchcrawler]

16 minutes ago, enigmatic said:

I forward all those scam SMSes to the Action Fraud number 7726 

https://www.ncsc.gov.uk/collection/phishing-scams/report-scam-text-message

which is supposed to get the messages blocked and the sender investigated (and should also be able to get the dodgy fake websites taken down)

 

Some of them are more convincing than that one!

Too late, in the bin, but if I get another

[pearley]

1 minute ago, frangar said:

"Registered site" allows for a load of wriggle room on behalf of the local council or Government....eg In my marina there are 11 full resi berths for use by marina employees only (as per the planning permission)...however far more people live on boats here to a greater or lesser extent....and dont pay council tax....The marina does have a "high intensity" charge allowing post etc....will be interesting to see what happens if we are allowed to apply without full residential status....could open a whole can of worms resulting in breach of planning or retrospective council tax.

Two boats down is occupied by a County Councillor with residential status and I put the point about registered sites to him. His view was as the marina had planning permission is was registered.

[frangar]

2 minutes ago, pearley said:

Two boats down is occupied by a County Councillor with residential status and I put the point about registered sites to him. His view was as the marina had planning permission is was registered.

OK...But as I said the planning permission wont cover the amount of liveaboards who might be trying to claim support in the case of my marina.

[David Mack]

19 hours ago, nbfiresprite said:

following people are eligible: 

• care home residents

• residents of park homes

• tenants in certain private and social rented homes

• homes supplied via private grid

• residents of houseboats on registered moorings

• residents of caravans on registered sites

• farmers living in domestic farmhouses

• off-grid households

• Travellers on registered sites

So nothing for liveaboard CCers then.

[pearley]

12 minutes ago, frangar said:

OK...But as I said the planning permission wont cover the amount of liveaboards who might be trying to claim support in the case of my marina.

I don't disagree with you. Mac is a County Councillor rather than District. Like yours, our marina has only 4 or 5 boats with residential status (actually Certificates if Lawful Occupation) with about 50 other liveaboards.

[Lady M]

Aren't they covered by off grid households?  I think the people not included will be unofficial liveaboards in marinas who do have access to mains electricity not least because this will be seen as included in the business/commercial arrangement.

[nbfiresprite]

4 minutes ago, Lady C said:

Aren't they covered by off grid households?  I think the people not included will be unofficial liveaboards in marinas who do have access to mains electricity not least because this will be seen as included in the business/commercial arrangement.

Off grid refers to not connected to any of the main utilities

 

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/off-the-grid

Edited January 10, 2023 by nbfiresprite

[David Mack]

Since the other accepted categories are all fixed locations I suspect "off-grid households" will be held to be buildings of some sort with a fixed location, postal address, paying Council tax etc., just not connected to mains gas or electricity networks. That would include long established remote dwellings with generators for electricity and using oil, bottled gas, bulk tank gas or solid fuel for heating, as well as newer 'eco homes' that rely on solar or wind with battery backup.

[IanD]

29 minutes ago, David Mack said:

So nothing for liveaboard CCers then.

Or people in typical narrowboats or wideboats in marinas or with permanent moorings online, because it says:

 

"residents of houseboats on registered moorings"

 

The government defines a houseboat as "being designed solely as a place of permanent habitation" -- in other words a floating shed, not a boat capable of moving around the canals, whether it actually does so or not.

[enigmatic]

I don't think even the government knows yet tbh. Spoke to someone at a marina who doesn't think even his residential moorers are getting it, NBTA think everybody's getting it, the guidelines can be interpreted any way you want them to

[IanD]

11 minutes ago, enigmatic said:

I don't think even the government knows yet tbh. Spoke to someone at a marina who doesn't think even his residential moorers are getting it, NBTA think everybody's getting it, the guidelines can be interpreted any way you want them to

 

With the government definition of eligibility as it is today (see above), residential boaters in a marina won't get it unless they have a houseboat (i.e. one not capable of moving) -- and even then, only if they're on an official registered mooring, not a "flying-under-the-radar" one.

 

The NBTA can think what they want, that's what the words in the rules clearly say...

Edited January 10, 2023 by IanD

[Alan de Enfield]

HMRC definition of house boat is :

 

 

7.1 Definition of a houseboat

A houseboat is defined for the purposes of VAT as being a floating decked structure which:

• is designed or adapted for use solely as a place of permanent habitation
• does not have the means of, and which is not capable of being readily adapted for, self-propulsion.

(I have no idea if other departments have a differing definition, but would have thought it unlikely.)

[Arthur Marshall]

Boaters may come under "off grid households". No-one is going to know until the application website has appeared, crashed under demand, been rewritten, been hacked, and finally been scrapped as too much bother.

I can't see how eligibility can be defined for continuous cruisers or travellers without allowing huge frauds, and while that is perfectly ok for millionaires, benefit scroungers get treated differently!

After all, it appears that nobody can actually define a liveaboard continuous cruiser (who should be entiled to it) as opposed to someone happily getting the support already via their housing bills while just not bothering paying for a mooring. There again,  it appears second home owners are entitled to two lots, so why not? I might even apply myself...

[Alan de Enfield]

5 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

After all, it appears that nobody can actually define a liveaboard continuous cruiser

 

 

I'd have thought the definition was fairly simple, 

 

1) A person whose sole (or main) place of residence is a boat. (Liveaboard)

2) They do not have a 'home mooring'. (Continuous cruiser)

 

The problem is identifying those boaters who meet the criteria and then, getting the payment to them (maybe as a grant against diesel / petrol costs and paid in the same way as the Electric support, by 'knocking £x off' their deliveries of diesel / petrol).

 

Being a boat without a home mooring means they will be moving and using fuel (even if its just a generator to charge the EB batteries)

[Paul C]

21 hours ago, nbfiresprite said:

 

following people are eligible: 

• care home residents

• residents of park homes

• tenants in certain private and social rented homes

• homes supplied via private grid

• residents of houseboats on registered moorings

• residents of caravans on registered sites

• farmers living in domestic farmhouses

• off-grid households

• Travellers on registered sites

 

 

Thanks for the insight nbfiresprite.

 

I think the "residents of houseboats on registered moorings" is a bit of a red herring; most liveaboard CCers and those on an unofficial mooring will need to claim under the "off-grid households" category. The above list is pretty much the same info as a month ago. I suspect the devil is in the detail on this one - whether NBTA have had any influence on the qualifying criteria so that boaters can be included within off-grid households with not much administrative hassle, or whether they'd be denied as soon as its checked that its not a "houseboat on a registered mooring" remains to be seen.

[nbfiresprite]

4 minutes ago, Paul C said:

 

Thanks for the insight nbfiresprite.

 

I think the "residents of houseboats on registered moorings" is a bit of a red herring; most liveaboard CCers and those on an unofficial mooring will need to claim under the "off-grid households" category. The above list is pretty much the same info as a month ago. I suspect the devil is in the detail on this one - whether NBTA have had any influence on the qualifying criteria so that boaters can be included within off-grid households with not much administrative hassle, or whether they'd be denied as soon as its checked that its not a "houseboat on a registered mooring" remains to be seen.

Not my insight, I ask a old school friend who is a senior member of staff in the payments department of the council in her area, what info they had been given by Whitehall.

 

As for registered site, this simply means that it had planning permission to be built or used. A number of databases will be used to crosscheck a claim, including the RM address database and the council tax database.  

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

13 minutes ago, Paul C said:

 

Thanks for the insight nbfiresprite.

 

I think the "residents of houseboats on registered moorings" is a bit of a red herring; most liveaboard CCers and those on an unofficial mooring will need to claim under the "off-grid households" category. The above list is pretty much the same info as a month ago. I suspect the devil is in the detail on this one - whether NBTA have had any influence on the qualifying criteria so that boaters can be included within off-grid households with not much administrative hassle, or whether they'd be denied as soon as its checked that its not a "houseboat on a registered mooring" remains to be seen.

Unless something has changed over the last few days, As far as I can see there is no way of claiming, no form to fill, questionnaire to complete.

The statements I see are basically “don’t call us we’ll call you”.

And how do they propose doing that?