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Boat dwellers to be able to claim the £400 energy allowance.


Alway Swilby

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3 hours ago, MartynG said:

That only applies if the boat is your main residence?

image.png.1459361fcc332defc52251c2e26ae2fe.png

 

But only after a long battle with the council, and it comes down in the end to you producing a council tax bill with your name on it. I been engaged in battle with Fenland council charging council tax on my mooring since 2017. I only liveaboard three nights a week, the other four days at my home in Dorset. 

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9 hours ago, nbfiresprite said:

But only after a long battle with the council, and it comes down in the end to you producing a council tax bill with your name on it. I been engaged in battle with Fenland council charging council tax on my mooring since 2017. I only liveaboard three nights a week, the other four days at my home in Dorset. 

Its worrying that  the council  knew you were staying on the boat 3 nights a week but maybe you prefer not to go into that .

 

1 hour ago, Paul C said:

So its like a second home, or a holiday home?

You could say that of any boat which has living accommodation.  

 

 

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34 minutes ago, MartynG said:

Its worrying that  the council  knew you were staying on the boat 3 nights a week but maybe you prefer not to go into that .

 

You could say that of any boat which has living accommodation.  

 

 

Or touring caravan even if its left on a camp site all year

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10 hours ago, nbfiresprite said:

But only after a long battle with the council, and it comes down in the end to you producing a council tax bill with your name on it. I been engaged in battle with Fenland council charging council tax on my mooring since 2017. I only liveaboard three nights a week, the other four days at my home in Dorset. 

A boat used for leisure is surely no different from a second or holiday home? Most people with marina moorings use them for that - somewhere to go for the odd weekend, just like you would if you had a cottage in the country. If I spend six months of the year on the boat, what else is it but a second home? If you're using it instead of renting a cheap flat in the town you work in, where's the difference? And, of course, you're using that council's facilities almost as much as your home ones, so the mobile reason for not charging CT doesn't hold water.

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4 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

A boat used for leisure is surely no different from a second or holiday home? Most people with marina moorings use them for that - somewhere to go for the odd weekend, just like you would if you had a cottage in the country. If I spend six months of the year on the boat, what else is it but a second home? If you're using it instead of renting a cheap flat in the town you work in, where's the difference? And, of course, you're using that council's facilities almost as much as your home ones, so the mobile reason for not charging CT doesn't hold water.

Opening up a big can of worms there. So that means everyone should pay council tax on their boat/caravan as a second home.😱😱

Just now, Jon57 said:

Opening up a big can of worms there. So that means everyone should pay council tax on their boat/caravan as a second home.😱😱

Add who don’t go away from their base.

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1 hour ago, MartynG said:

Its worrying that  the council  knew you were staying on the boat 3 nights a week but maybe you prefer not to go into that .

 

 

 

 

He didn't say the council knew, just that they wanted him to pay Council Tax.  The more worrying thing is that they only gave up when he produced a council tax bill in his name elsewhere.  There are legitimate reasons why adults don't pay council tax at their home address.

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37 minutes ago, doratheexplorer said:

He didn't say the council knew, just that they wanted him to pay Council Tax.  The more worrying thing is that they only gave up when he produced a council tax bill in his name elsewhere.  There are legitimate reasons why adults don't pay council tax at their home address.

The council must have known otherwise on what basis did the council peruse a claim for payment ?

 

I have , earlier ,stated that only one person in a house pays council taximage.png.3ebbfb79296ffc9eb90a815f190f5e44.png

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47 minutes ago, MartynG said:

The council must have known otherwise on what basis did the council peruse a claim for payment ?

 

I have , earlier ,stated that only one person in a house pays council taximage.png.3ebbfb79296ffc9eb90a815f190f5e44.png

Not strictly true. We are both named on our council tax bill so would both be liable for any arrears on the account and equally are both liable for the payments.

 

There is only one council ta bill per household would be a more accurate description. 

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7 minutes ago, Naughty Cal said:

Not strictly true. We are both named on our council tax bill so would both be liable for any arrears on the account and equally are both liable for the payments.

 

There is only one council ta bill per household would be a more accurate description. 

Even if one adult is named on the invoice then in a house occupied by two adults  both adults  are equally liable.

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3 hours ago, MartynG said:

Its worrying that  the council  knew you were staying on the boat 3 nights a week but maybe you prefer not to go into that .

 

You could say that of any boat which has living accommodation.  

 

 

The council or rather the Anglia Revenues Partnership (ARP) used its powers to force the marina owners to hand over the name and address of every boat owner in the marina. The ARP then sent a letter to every moorer to inform them that they are liable to pay council tax on the mooring unless they could produce a council tax bill with their name on it. 

 

People with homes is outside the UK will not have a council tax bill. We had one pissed off Aussie who left his boat in the marina over the winter while he flew home to spend the Summer down under. He was sent a council tax and a court date.   

Edited by nbfiresprite
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6 minutes ago, nbfiresprite said:

The council or rather the Anglia Revenues Partnership (ARP) used its powers to force the marina owners to hand over the name and address of every boat owner in the marina. The ARP then sent a letter to every moorer to inform them that they are liable to pay council tax on the mooring unless they could produce a council tax bill with their name on it. 

 

Apart from the question of legality of forcing the marina to divulge personal information , that does not seem unreasonable.

 

At C&RT/BWML marinas you could not have a leisure mooring unless you provided a CT bill in your name.

If you wanted (or already had) a mooring and could not supply a CT bill when requested then you were only allowed to have a 'residential mooring'.

You either paid up or left.

 

Mooring Definitions :

 

 

Leisure Mooring

 

This product is for the boating enthusiast and customers wishing to maximise their leisure time allowing unlimited leisure use within the marina throughout the mooring contract, utilising their boat summer and winter is an expectation.

It is not permitted to stay on the vessel for more than 28 consecutive days whilst the vessel is moored in the marina in any one contract period. BWML may from time to time request proof of residency away from the marina.

A leisure mooring has the following additional benefits over the standard mooring product.

 Electricity upgraded to a maximum 16 amp supply (chargeable) please refer to the Customer Service Handbook regarding electricity supply.

 Water points close by and usable all year round subject to underground freezing caused by severe weather conditions, with the exception Sawley Marina where water will be disconnected during months of November – March to alleviate freezing and burst pipework.

 Parking subject to availability (extra charge could apply at certain locations).

 BWML offer hard standing within this service provision subject to marina facilities, the number of weeks included are set locally please contact your marina office for details.

Lifting fees and cradle fees applicable and subject to Marina location.

 

Full Residential

 

Only available at marinas were BWML have gained residential planning approval, council tax is payable at either a composite or individual rate (please contact the Marina Manager for more information regarding council tax). Minimum contract 12 months, customers requiring longer security should discuss this with their Local Marina Management Team who will advise of the Berthing Lease requirements.

Additional benefits for residential berths are listed below.

 Allocation of a registered postal address.

 Minimum 16 amp electrical supply (chargeable), maximum 32 amp.

 Winterised water mains (subject to underground freezing caused by severe weather conditions).

 Guaranteed parking bay allocation – with the exception of Limehouse Marina (extra charge could apply at certain locations).

 Storage box provided (subject to land availability).

 6 weeks on hard standing subject to marina facility (lifting fees applicable), additional weeks are chargeable at appropriate rates (subject to Marina location).

 Inclusive elements such as Pump Out and Laundrette are subject to BWML fair Use Policy

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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18 minutes ago, nbfiresprite said:

The council or rather the Anglia Revenues Partnership (ARP) used its powers to force the marina owners to hand over the name and address of every boat owner in the marina. The ARP then sent a letter to every moorer to inform them that they are liable to pay council tax on the mooring unless they could produce a council tax bill with their name on it. 

I am sure the marina where I keep my boat would not disclose any personal information.

Isn't  there a data protection  act that prevents this sort of thing?

 

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2 hours ago, Jon57 said:

Opening up a big can of worms there. So that means everyone should pay council tax on their boat/caravan as a second home.😱😱

Add who don’t go away from their base.

I don't think the last sentence matters. It's still your home even if it moves, the only problem then is who gets the money, which makes it uneconomic to collect. But it's not a case of "should" - that depends entirely on current law and interpretation, which luckily means we don't have to pay, probably for the same reason - it would cost more to keep track of mobile objects like boats and caravans than you'd get in income. Exactly the same problem CRT has with enforcement.

 

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22 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

 

At C&RT/BWML marinas you could not have a leisure mooring unless you provided a CT bill in your name.

If you wanted (or already had) a mooring and could not supply a CT bill when requested then you were only allowed to have a 'residential mooring'.

You either paid up or left.

 

 

Equally appalling and none of their business unless you want to live aboard. 

 

I would have thought providing  a home postal address should be sufficient  and it is  sufficient in my case. 

 

 

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9 minutes ago, MartynG said:

I am sure the marina where I keep my boat would not disclose any personal information.

Isn't  there a data protection  act that prevents this sort of thing?

 

For collecting council tax, they can require that the landlord hands over the details of the tenant.

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6 minutes ago, MartynG said:

I am sure the marina where I keep my boat would not disclose any personal information.

Isn't  there a data protection  act that prevents this sort of thing?

 

I think you'll find, somewhere in your t&cs, that you've agreed that they can disclose such info to anyone with a legitimate reason to know it. Probably in your licence agreement with CRT, too. And councils have a legal right to know who may be living in their area.

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2 hours ago, MartynG said:

The council must have known otherwise on what basis did the council peruse a claim for payment ?

 

I have , earlier ,stated that only one person in a house pays council taximage.png.3ebbfb79296ffc9eb90a815f190f5e44.png

Because they had been given his details as the owner of the boat.  They didn't know how many nights a week he was on it, if any.

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11 minutes ago, MartynG said:

Equally appalling and none of their business unless you want to live aboard. 

 

But it is the marina that gets in 'hot water' if they have more 'residential boats' than 'residential moorings' and the only way to discriminate between a leisure boater and a residential boater appears to be if they have a 'primary residence' elsewhere.

 

So when a boater says "no I don't live aboard" (when it is pretty obvious when they are) how do they prove that they have somewhere else to live ?

 

The marina can impose prettyy much any terms it wants to, you read the T&Cs before taking a mooring and if you don't like them then go elsewhere. If you agree to them, then don't be surprised when they are applied to you.

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The problem here is that Council Tax and boats don't really work well together.  And Councils have no expertise in the matter.

 

I'll give you an example I know of:

 

A mooring site, run by CRT with a mix of leisure and residential moorings.  An old guy lives on a boat there and nobody really knows if his 'mooring' is residential or now, especially as the boats swap postions fairly regularly.  This guy has been living there since at least the 70s, quite possibly longer which makes his residency immune from any planning action anyway.  He also receives Council Tax benefit, so pays no Council Tax.  Eventually he gets too old to be on the boat and sells his boat.  The buyer already owns another boat which they live on and continuously cruise, so the new boat will just be an extra.  The new buyer bids on the subsequent CRT leisure mooring auction to keep the boat on its mooring and is the only bidder, so gets the mooring with the boat.  The Council then come after him for Council Tax.  I don't know where they got his contact details from, maybe the old man who lived there?  The new moorer spent months fighting the Council over this and eventually gave up and sold the boat on.  I don't know what happened with the subsequent owner.  What I do know, is that the man being chased for Council Tax was unable to convince the Council that he didn't live on the boat.

Edited by doratheexplorer
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