Boat dwellers to be able to claim the £400 energy allowance.

[Sea Dog]

48 minutes ago, doratheexplorer said:

What I do know, is that the man being chased for Council Tax was unable to convince the Council that he didn't live on the boat.

I was told by a marina owner that once a mooring is deemed a residential mooring registered for council tax it's very difficult indeed to get it back to a non residential status. Essentially then, I guess the council were chasing the new moorer in the same way the new owner of a house would be chased. Empty houses are not CT exempt.

[Paul C]

Yeah, as above, in a nutshell. It’s not so much the not living in a boat that’s the issue. The mooring was residential and still is, so it quite fairly attracts council tax. They are obviously open to some kind of concession where if you show you pay it elsewhere, they’ll not collect.

[Arthur Marshall]

I remember when I lived on the boat at Croughton where there were about thirty of us living on, only one boat was registered as residential, which was the eldest resident in the basin. They came to check him out for Poll Tax (it was in the bad old days), he refused to open the door so the guy climbed on the side of the boat and banged on the side doors, which then opened. We all enjoyed the splash.

[Momac]

4 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

So when a boater says "no I don't live aboard" (when it is pretty obvious when they are) how do they prove that they have somewhere else to live ?

It people are on board for months on end  on a non residential mooring the marina should politely ask the person to go home. That happened to someone at Farndon a few years ago.The person involved went home. 

Surely no one gets a non-residential mooring contract without providing a home address.

 

I have of course given my home address to the marina. Why would the marina require anything more?

 

 

 

Edited January 11, 2023 by MartynG

[Momac]

4 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

The marina can impose prettyy much any terms it wants to, you read the T&Cs before taking a mooring and if you don't like them then go elsewhere. If you agree to them, then don't be surprised when they are applied to you.

Are you asked for your council tax bill where you keep your two boats (presuming the boats to be on non residential moorings)?

Just wondered if its normal practice and marians that don't require a council tax bill are unusual?

 

 

 

Edited January 11, 2023 by MartynG

[Paul C]

1 hour ago, MartynG said:

 

I have of course given my home address to the marina.

 

 

Did you give them your home address; or show them proof of your home address?

[Momac]

3 minutes ago, Paul C said:

 

Did you give them your home address; or show them proof of your home address?

I don't recall being asked for ''proof''.  

They used to send invoices by post back in 2008 when I first took a mooring there. 

These days its all sent by email.

 

[Paul C]

I suspect some marinas have attracted interest from the local council regarding unofficial residential use (thus, the council missing out on a bunch of council tax) so the marina themselves take steps to validate moorers are leisure use only, as part of an arse-covering exercise.

 

And in other areas, there is no issue at all so no further checks are deemed necessary.

[Alan de Enfield]

2 hours ago, MartynG said:

Are you asked for your council tax bill where you keep your two boats (presuming the boats to be on non residential moorings)?

Just wondered if its normal practice and marians that don't require a council tax bill are unusual?

 

 

 

Both are now coastal marinas and coastal marinas with residential moorings are very very few and far between

 

It is pointed out when we took out / renew the mooring contract that it is a non-residential marina.

We have to give our home address, email, and copy of insurance certificate - thats all.

 

In bad weather or lock gates not working we might spend a week or two in the marina but we have a boat to go boating not to have a floating flat.

[Momac]

Just now, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

Both are now coastal marinas and coastal marinas with residential moorings are very very few and far between

 

It is pointed out when we took out / renew the mooring contract that it is a non-residential marina.

We have to give our home address, email, and copy of insurance certificate - thats all.

 

In bad weather or lock gates not working we might spend a week or two in the marina but we have a boat to go boating not to have a floating flat.

So it's not normal to be asked by a marina for a council tax bill .

I don't see why it is relevant whether a marina is on the coast or inland or whether there are a lot of residential moorings or none.

 

Farndon Marina doesn't ask for a council tax bill nor  proof of insurance . I think they should ask for insurance  really..

At Farndon residential moorings are few and far between also . I think they have permission for about half a dozen.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

Just now, MartynG said:

So it's not normal to be asked by a marina for a council tax bill .

 

 

I have no idea - if it is normal for 2 out of 3 marinas (that we have used in the last 5 years) not to ask then yes 'its normal'

But I suppose you'd really need to canvas moorers in the remaining 100s of marinas to get an accurate figure.

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

Why would a marina ask for evidence of a Council Tax bill?

 

I blame LadyG for this wholly unnecessary talk about Council Tax.

She started it

🤓

[Paul C]

Councils are run locally and there's massive variations in the way they are run, the funding, expertise, areas of focus etc.  There's also a lot of regional variation in the country anyway. I'm not surprised that in some areas, marinas ask for proof of non-residential, while in other areas its a non-issue. I don't think its that relevant whether its "normal" (>50% of marinas do it) or not.

10 minutes ago, Goliath said:

Why would a marina ask for evidence of a Council Tax bill?

 

I blame LadyG for this wholly unnecessary talk about Council Tax.

She started it

🤓

 

Arse covering, especially if its whole construction was based on planning permission for leisure only use, and residential boaters would be a breach of that. Also, why would marinas particularly want residential boaters? A leisure boater pays pretty much the same and is a cash cow, they visit the marina and their boat a few times a year and buy stuff in the shop and cafe. A resi boater probably couldn't afford to spend that much more in the shop/cafe and would create much more rubbish, use the facilities much more, etc

Edited January 11, 2023 by Paul C

[Tacet]

8 hours ago, nbfiresprite said:

The council or rather the Anglia Revenues Partnership (ARP) used its powers to force the marina owners to hand over the name and address of every boat owner in the marina. The ARP then sent a letter to every moorer to inform them that they are liable to pay council tax on the mooring unless they could produce a council tax bill with their name on it.

In which case ARP is out of order. 

 

There are numerous, legitimate reasons why one may not have a Council Tax bill with one's name on it. And the absence of such does not automatically make a mooring liable to Council Tax.

 

4 minutes ago, Tacet said:

 

And I would be surprised if the VOA took a berth out of the non-domestic list and entered it on the domestic list on no more than a request from the collecting body.

 

I think ARP is trying it on!

Edited January 11, 2023 by Tacet

[nbfiresprite]

2 hours ago, Tacet said:

In which case ARP is out of order. 

 

There are numerous, legitimate reasons why one may not have a Council Tax bill with one's name on it. And the absence of such does not automatically make a mooring liable to Council Tax.

 

And I would be surprised if the VOA took a berth out of the non-domestic list and entered it on the domestic list on no more than a request from the collecting body.

 

I think ARP is trying it on!

That is how the system works, All the council has to do is inform the VOA that property has been classed as domestic and will need to have a Council Tax band allocated. Only in rare cases do they make a visit. . The council is responsible for applying relevant discounts or exemptions not the VOA.

[frahkn]

1 hour ago, nbfiresprite said:

That is how the system works, All the council has to do is inform the VOA that property has been classed as domestic and will need to have a Council Tax band allocated. Only in rare cases do they make a visit. . The council is responsible for applying relevant discounts or exemptions not the VOA.

In, just, ten years of owning my boat I have moored in three marinas; all had a "no resident" clause in the mooring contract.

 

Two of the three had a significant minority of people resident on their boats. In each case no great effort was made by the residents to hide their status and, as far as I could see, the marina staff didn't make any effort to enforce the contract terms.

 

As far as I was concerned it was a "good thing" as I felt that my boat was more secure during times when I was at home. 

[Arthur Marshall]

Back to the topic... you will probably be able to apply for £200 in February when the government opens a portal (sounds like something from Macbeth).

 

[Tacet]

8 hours ago, nbfiresprite said:

That is how the system works, All the council has to do is inform the VOA that property has been classed as domestic and will need to have a Council Tax band allocated. Only in rare cases do they make a visit. . The council is responsible for applying relevant discounts or exemptions not the VOA.

It is the VOA and not the Council that maintains the valuation lists  - and very precious about it, they are too.  And it is to the VOA that any ratepayer would turn if it takes exception.

 

The Council may draw attention to any issues, but no way would the VOA do the Council's becking and alter the lists without being reasonably satisfied.  Not having a Council Tax bill elsewhere does not make a mooring domestic.

[Paul C]

18 minutes ago, Tacet said:

It is the VOA and not the Council that maintains the valuation lists  - and very precious about it, they are too.  And it is to the VOA that any ratepayer would turn if it takes exception.

 

The Council may draw attention to any issues, but no way would the VOA do the Council's becking and alter the lists without being reasonably satisfied.  Not having a Council Tax bill elsewhere does not make a mooring domestic.

what does then? I suspect it’s very easy to be added, much harder to get off that list.

[nbfiresprite]

13 minutes ago, Tacet said:

It is the VOA and not the Council that maintains the valuation lists  - and very precious about it, they are too.  And it is to the VOA that any ratepayer would turn if it takes exception.

 

The Council may draw attention to any issues, but no way would the VOA do the Council's becking and alter the lists without being reasonably satisfied.  Not having a Council Tax bill elsewhere does not make a mooring domestic.

You are the one that is wrong. I contacted both the Peterborough and the Cambridge offices of the VOA, both told me to take the matter up with the council and that they act on the information that is given to them by the council. The Valuation Office Agency is only responsible for banding properties and entering them in the Council Tax list. It is the cpuncil that provide the VOA with the information they need to allocate a band.

 

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/understand-how-council-tax-bands-are-assessed

[MtB]

25 minutes ago, Tacet said:

It is the VOA and not the Council that maintains the valuation lists  - and very precious about it, they are too.  And it is to the VOA that any ratepayer would turn if it takes exception.

 

The Council may draw attention to any issues, but no way would the VOA do the Council's becking and alter the lists without being reasonably satisfied.  Not having a Council Tax bill elsewhere does not make a mooring domestic.

 

My understanding too. This is why attempts to 'convince the local council' (mentioned upthread) they don't live on the boat are pointless. If the VOA has it listed as a residence, then CT is payable on it whether or not it is being occupied. Empty holiday homes attract CT, and so do empty residential moorings.

 

 

 

 

[nbfiresprite]

7 minutes ago, Paul C said:

what does then? I suspect it’s very easy to be added, much harder to get off that list.

Very easy to get on the list, very hard to get off. No sooner after a long battle to get removed, within a few days it is back on the list.My boat has been listed five times under three different names in the last seven years.

 

https://www.tax.service.gov.uk/check-council-tax-band/search?postcode=Jz5p6j8tYPTX53gt-EgGhw&page=0

[doratheexplorer]

18 hours ago, Paul C said:

Yeah, as above, in a nutshell. It’s not so much the not living in a boat that’s the issue. The mooring was residential and still is, so it quite fairly attracts council tax. They are obviously open to some kind of concession where if you show you pay it elsewhere, they’ll not collect.

Except CRT auctioned it as a leisure mooring and the new owner took it in good faith.

[doratheexplorer]

8 hours ago, frahkn said:

In, just, ten years of owning my boat I have moored in three marinas; all had a "no resident" clause in the mooring contract.

 

Two of the three had a significant minority of people resident on their boats. In each case no great effort was made by the residents to hide their status and, as far as I could see, the marina staff didn't make any effort to enforce the contract terms.

 

As far as I was concerned it was a "good thing" as I felt that my boat was more secure during times when I was at home. 

I stayed in a private marina for a while where the owners didn't seem to have any idea at all about residential or non residential.  It was never mentioned.  There was one fixed mooring rate.  Post for moorers was delivered to the shop, and we all went to collect it. 

 

The owners were fairly new, but about half the boats were lived on and many had been there for years. 

[Paul C]

11 minutes ago, doratheexplorer said:

Except CRT auctioned it as a leisure mooring and the new owner took it in good faith.

He got a bargain then! Resi moorings usually cost more.