CRT training vlockies today, wrongly

[MtB]

3 hours ago, Paul C said:

As a boater, you should be aware that, at some point in the next 5 minutes, the paddles ARE going to be opened. So......GET YOUR BOAT AND YOURSELF READY FOR THAT!!!!!

 

As a boater with a 45ft boat and quite poor astern performance on a slow revving vintage engine (slipping brake band), I sometimes don't have enough grunt in astern to counter the surge in some locks when going uphill and the paddles are opened. So the sensible thing to do is rest the bow on the sill with the boat in gear, yes? 

 

SO when others (vollies usually) know better and open the top paddles before I've settled against the sill, the boat gets slammed forward in to the sill which saves several seconds of time for which I should be grateful. Yes?

[Arthur Marshall]

I never, ever, leave the boat in gear on the front gate going up. Plenty of sunk boats refloated by RCR to make my argument. I've always regarded it as stupid, and still do. I can see the point in a seventy footer, but anything else is just daft (EtA no offence to MtB above - it's just my opinion).

Any fool who decides to help me up or down without checking with me how I want the lock managed is going to get yelled at, probably with some obscenities. A 40 foot boat in any lock is going to get thrown about by the various surges, and I know how it behaves and what to do about it.

And yes, I singlehand faster than most crewed boats, and the few that are obviously quicker I let through. But I can't believe how slowly most crews do locks.

Edited July 23, 2022 by Arthur Marshall
As indicated!

[frangar]

27 minutes ago, Paul C said:

 

If you threatened violence against me I'd kill you - efficiently.

Easy way to avoid that is dont be a dick and pretend you know better with someone else's boat then isnt it?.....oh and its my OH who is more likely to knock you into the cut....

[frangar]

18 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

As a boater with a 45ft boat and quite poor astern performance on a slow revving vintage engine (slipping brake band), I sometimes don't have enough grunt in astern to counter the surge in some locks when going uphill and the paddles are opened. So the sensible thing to do is rest the bow on the sill with the boat in gear, yes? 

 

SO when others (vollies usually) know better and open the top paddles before I've settled against the sill, the boat gets slammed forward in to the sill which saves several seconds of time for which I should be grateful. Yes?

Exactly....arrogant people like Paul C think they know better but rarely do....I always ride the gate with the boat in gear unless I know the lock and how it behaves....saves a lot of faffing about with gears or ropes!...and wear and tear as the boat slams the gate when some idiot has whipped both paddles up without asking...Ive told more than one vollie to stop....they get the hump but its not their boat is it?

[Bargebuilder]

16 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

A 40 foot boat in any lock is going to get thrown about by the various surges

My wife helms our little NB through locks, we never tie to anything, even in double locks, unless forced to do so by a lock keeper. I always open all paddles fully straight away and my wife, with no drama, keeps the boat central with little effort. 

 

Anything single handed or extra long may well struggle.

 

 

[frangar]

20 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

I never, ever, leave the boat in gear on the front gate going up. Plenty of sunk boats refloated by RCR to make my argument. I've always regarded it as stupid, and still do. I can see the point in a seventy footer, but anything else is just daft (EtA no offence to MtB above - it's just my opinion).

Any fool who decides to help me up or down without checking with me how I want the lock managed is going to get yelled at, probably with some obscenities. A 40 foot boat in any lock is going to get thrown about by the various surges, and I know how it behaves and what to do about it.

And yes, I singlehand faster than most crewed boats, and the few that are obviously quicker I let through. But I can't believe how slowly most crews do locks.

Ive only once had the bow "stick" when riding a gate and that was on a new lock gate where the steel rubbing strip was still rusty and not yet polished....and the boat did free itself just as I was thinking some avoiding action was going to be needed. Its much safer to ride a gate in my opinion than have the boat shoot down the lock and slam the gate...and roping up in a narrow lock presents even more chances for things to go wrong....again in my opinion. 

 

Having said that if you wish to use ropes or hold back using reverse with your boat thats entirely up to you...I always wait for instruction from the skipper/crew of another boat before touching a paddle or gate...unless in the case of some recent hire boat crews they are about to do something totally stupid but when they were questioned it not unsurprisingly turned out to be poor tuition from the hire base....or in another instance just plain arrogance as they expected the lock to be worked for them....there was 4 people on the boat and they went to go in without any of them making an effort to get off...and showed surprise when my OH pointed out they might like to work the lock!

[Paul C]

35 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

SO when others (vollies usually) know better and open the top paddles before I've settled against the sill, the boat gets slammed forward in to the sill which saves several seconds of time for which I should be grateful. Yes?

 

The sensible thing to do would be to drive the boat appropriately, so its in the right place by the time the gate's closed (because it takes time to close a gate, and they're not going to open the paddles before the gate's closed, right)? If you can't operate the boat properly to do that, then that's your own problem. 

 

As said before, if you need help, ask for it.

[frangar]

Just now, Paul C said:

 

The sensible thing to do would be to drive the boat appropriately, so its in the right place by the time the gate's closed (because it takes time to close a gate, and they're not going to open the paddles before the gate's closed, right)? If you can't operate the boat properly to do that, then that's your own problem. 

 

As said before, if you need help, ask for it.

Have you actually done much boating? It really doesnt sound like it to me....it takes time to get a 50ft boat on the cill/top gate without slamming into it...time enough for those that think they know better to have a gate closed and paddle whipped up especially if there is more than one "helper" on the lockside...ive been launched down an Oxford lock after anther crew thought it a wheeze to slam the gates behind me and whip both paddles up...they were told a few home truths in no uncertain terms. 

[Paul C]

19 minutes ago, frangar said:

Easy way to avoid that is dont be a dick and pretend you know better with someone else's boat then isnt it?.....oh and its my OH who is more likely to knock you into the cut....

 

Well.....you started it. If you threaten violence, expect an escalation from some boaters. You might have missed the first line of my original post where I explained I would be playing devil's advocate with a lot of the half-baked answers that will come up on this thread. I am sure there is a previous thread, and probably one or two before that one too, where this has all been discussed before!

 

Personally, of course, I do it with the utmost of courtesy and will happily oblige with whatever wishes another boater wants, all the time being as helpful and cheery as possible so I relax and enjoy my holiday. I simply don't get wound up by minor things such as locks taking an hour or more longer than Canalplan says so. And I agree to an extent with some of the other retorts too - but where would the fun be in that, on an interweb forum?

 

Happy boating (and debating).

[MtB]

14 minutes ago, Paul C said:

The sensible thing to do would be to drive the boat appropriately, so its in the right place by the time the gate's closed (because it takes time to close a gate, and they're not going to open the paddles before the gate's closed, right)? If you can't operate the boat properly to do that, then that's your own problem. 

 

As said before, if you need help, ask for it.

 

Absolutely. 

 

The help I like to get is being left alone to work the locks myself, in the way I find works for me.

 

But I appreciate you know better than me, how to steer my boat and how to work my locks. 

 

 

[blackrose]

4 hours ago, Paul C said:

 

And if you're singlehanding and going up in the lock........and you want to get off once in the lock......just tell them before "I'm going to be getting off the boat, not staying on it" and get off it quick so the boat behind isn't inconvenienced (any further).....and maybe if its going to take 10 minutes to hobble along the roof or inch your way up a ladder, you'd be better taking their offer of just staying on the boat?

 

As a singlehander you can't win. If you stay at the helm someone will accuse you of being lazy and expecting others to do the work for you, but if you get off the boat someone else will say you're too slow and you're holding everyone up.

 

What's the rush anyway? If you're in a hurry buy a motorbike. 

[David Schweizer]

1 hour ago, Paul C said:

 

This is sometimes said but its actually complete bollocks and physically impossible, mainly because its impossible to be in two places at once, namely operating one lock whilst going ahead and preparing the next lock in a flight. Unless you are regularly leaving the boat and sprinting or cycling. A crewed boat can ALWAYS split up and by getting the next lock ready, or at least starting on it, it WILL be quicker.....

 

....unless of course, we're comparing an efficient single hander to a terribly inefficient, overly cautious or near-deathly old, pair of boaters with a fear of locking, boating or scratching their boat. Which I suspect you are relating to and happens too often!!!!

 

As Jerry Springer once said "take care of yourself......and each other".

 

I am not sure why you need to be so unpleasant, and as you have never witnessed me single handing a boat, I do not see how you can make any judgements about my degree of efficiency when working a lock.

 

 

Edited July 23, 2022 by David Schweizer

[Bargebuilder]

6 minutes ago, blackrose said:

As a singlehander you can't win. If you stay at the helm someone will accuse you of being lazy and expecting others to do the work for you, but if you get off the boat someone else will say you're too slow and you're holding everyone up

So true, but looking at it from the point of view of the boat with a crew member, they can't win either. Either they do all the work whilst watching the single hander do nothing, or they suffer taking longer to pass through locks if the single hander helps.

 

Unless the single hander is agile, proficient and practiced of course.

[Midnight]

It's quite simple really. Ask before helping. When entering a lock tell those eager or clever buggers to foook off. 

 

PS Arthur didn't yell at me when I locked him through the Shroppie stop lock. Do I get a prize? 🤪

[Captain Pegg]

43 minutes ago, Paul C said:

 

Well.....you started it. If you threaten violence, expect an escalation from some boaters. You might have missed the first line of my original post where I explained I would be playing devil's advocate with a lot of the half-baked answers that will come up on this thread. I am sure there is a previous thread, and probably one or two before that one too, where this has all been discussed before!

 

Personally, of course, I do it with the utmost of courtesy and will happily oblige with whatever wishes another boater wants, all the time being as helpful and cheery as possible so I relax and enjoy my holiday. I simply don't get wound up by minor things such as locks taking an hour or more longer than Canalplan says so. And I agree to an extent with some of the other retorts too - but where would the fun be in that, on an interweb forum?

 

Happy boating (and debating).

All you managed to do when I put a reasoned response to your opening premise was to offer a condescending and arrogant retort.

 

My advice to the devil is to sack you and get @nicknorman to do their advocacy.

 

Edited July 23, 2022 by Captain Pegg

[cuthound]

5 hours ago, Paul C said:

I'm going to be the devil's advocate here, excuse me....

 

When you drive into a lock, you kinda need the gate open. Then once you're in it, you need it closed. Broad locks and the "single gate open for a narrowboat" debate aside, there's nothing much complicated about that, and nothing much to go wrong.

 

Once you're in a lock.....the paddles need opening. As a boater, you should be aware that, at some point in the next 5 minutes, the paddles ARE going to be opened. So......GET YOUR BOAT AND YOURSELF READY FOR THAT!!!!! I don't know what some boaters are doing when there is a huge delay between gates closing and paddles open. Its a waste of time. JFDI, etc.....

 

My pet peeve is when I'm driving the boat, its driven into the lock (sometimes I'm not even on it, if I've nipped off to close the offside paddle going down) and it goes to the front then..............nothing. Or another 'helpful' boater is doing it 1 click at a time, or waiting for intimate eye contact or a secret squirrel signal. JFDI..........please.....

 

And if you're singlehanding and going up in the lock........and you want to get off once in the lock......just tell them before "I'm going to be getting off the boat, not staying on it" and get off it quick so the boat behind isn't inconvenienced (any further).....and maybe if its going to take 10 minutes to hobble along the roof or inch your way up a ladder, you'd be better taking their offer of just staying on the boat?

 

I disagree. The one bad experience I have had with Volockie's was a few years ago at Fradley, where before I had brought the boat to a halt, one Volockie closed the gate behind me and the other two rattled the paddles open without asking 

 

Inevitably my boat was rapidly drawn forward, firmly hitting the gates.

 

After a frank discussion, which hopefully increased their education, I think they understood why the shouldn't operate paddles until the steerer has confirmed he is ready.

[dmr]

2 hours ago, Goliath said:

And do that terrible thing of waiting til the boat coming out the lock has cleared their boat before untying and moving off. 
They should be slipping in to the lock as soon as. 
 

 

We had one experiene where a waiting boater untied and approached the lock whilst we still in it. He then waited about 5 feet right outside the lock oblivious to the fact that he was totally blocking our exit. It was a busy bit of towpath and quite a little audience formed.

[PaulJ]

7 minutes ago, dmr said:

 

We had one experiene where a waiting boater untied and approached the lock whilst we still in it. He then waited about 5 feet right outside the lock oblivious to the fact that he was totally blocking our exit. It was a busy bit of towpath and quite a little audience formed.

You just reminded me of the (very new) boat(er) I met while coming up the Middlewich locks.

I have no idea how he thought he was going to get in 😀

[Arthur Marshall]

1 hour ago, Midnight said:

It's quite simple really. Ask before helping. When entering a lock tell those eager or clever buggers to foook off. 

 

PS Arthur didn't yell at me when I locked him through the Shroppie stop lock. Do I get a prize? 🤪

You did it very nicely, and I didn't tie the boat up either!

I've been boating, mostly on my own, for thirty years and I know how I feel safe doing it, and how quickly I can go. In a flight of close locks I'm going to be slower than some boats with crews, but hardly any of those send someone ahead anyway, so most go slower than me as they seem to take an age to untie, move and reload their crew, even in short pounds. And the other thing I've noticed is that when I started this lark, most boaters were older than me, and now I'm 70 odd and they still are. That doesn't speed them up, either - we break easier at this age and tend to be a bit more careful.

Riding the gate is fine for those who feel comfortable doing it, and I can see the advantages, but it's not for me.

All the vlockies I've met this trip have asked if I want help and have asked for a signal before winding anything, and watched the lock throughout. There's bound to be a few officious knowalls here and there, but they seem a lot better than they were.

4 minutes ago, PaulJ said:

You just reminded me of the (very new) boat(er) I met while coming up the Middlewich locks.

I have no idea how he thought he was going to get in 😀

That's a horrible corner, though. He probably went too wide and couldn't get back to the bollards. This week there was a boat tied up outside the dry dock, which made it even worse.

[David Schweizer]

3 minutes ago, PaulJ said:

You just reminded me of the (very new) boat(er) I met while coming up the Middlewich locks.

I have no idea how he thought he was going to get in 😀

 

Working pairs sometimes used to wait below locks in forward gear with the bows nestled against the gates, especially if there was a fierce flow of water from the paddles. But if there were boats preparing to leave the lock they always reversed out of the way in good time. The last time I saw it happen was when David Blagrove was bringing a loaded pair up the Braunston flight

[dmr]

Won't mention names but there are a couple of posters on this thread who I hope never work a lock for me. I am even starting to wonder if some posters here ever actually go boating 😀

[Alan de Enfield]

17 minutes ago, PaulJ said:

You just reminded me of the (very new) boat(er) I met while coming up the Middlewich locks.

I have no idea how he thought he was going to get in 😀

 

He maybe asumed you were going the same was as he was, so, he'd slide in after you left.

 

We know your bow is pointing to him but did he ?

[PaulJ]

10 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

 

That's a horrible corner, though. He probably went too wide and couldn't get back to the bollards. This week there was a boat tied up outside the dry dock, which made it even worse.

Nope. He started by waiting on the bend and then as I came up in the lock he moved forward on the gate. Im sure he had a plan..

He was very new thats all and we all had a laugh about it.

Its what locking requires sometimes-a sense of humuor and a bit of patience.

[dmr]

13 minutes ago, PaulJ said:

You just reminded me of the (very new) boat(er) I met while coming up the Middlewich locks.

I have no idea how he thought he was going to get in 😀

 

Yes, thats the sort of thing. Good do see he has his fenders down too. We get the additional problem that boaters sometimes approach the lock as we are leaving hoping to nip round the side of us and squeeze into the lock behind us. We then see the look of horror as they realise that we are 70 rather than 57 and they have missjudged it. One or two have even told us off for having a boat that is to long.

Another issue that boats have virtually no steerage till they are out of the lock so if a boat comes right up to the lock and still leaves just enough space there is nowhere to swing the back if you need to steer. Why do so many boaters not understand this?  There is a tricky lock on the Stratford avon where you have to turn sharply against the side flow as you leave the lock, and having a boat in the stern swing is a right pain 😀

[PaulJ]

11 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

He maybe asumed you were going the same was as he was, so, he'd slide in after you left.

 

We know your bow is pointing to him but did he ?

Well actually yes. Id walked up to them as they were coming down and told them to leave the gates open for me, Id do the same etc etc.

Im not having a pop at the boat. He was inexperienced and it amused me is all.

No grumpiness required or intended.