CRT training vlockies today, wrongly

[Arthur Marshall]

13 minutes ago, Stroudwater1 said:

out of interest Arthur how do you manage your boat going up the Cheshire locks?
 

The pull to the top gate  is ferocious and like MtB I wasn’t able to reverse with enough speed to prevent crashing into the top gate. I tried centreline reversing. Most locks I don’t like doing what MtB does especially as he is off the boat so can’t reverse but could see no way to avoid a bash. Similar on the right Hillmorton middle going up it always seems to drag rapidly forward 

Going up I always tie the boat up on the centre line, with the boat at least in the middle of the lock, or as far back as I can get it. Then open the paddle halfway to see what happens. Usually the boat moves forward on the surge and as soon as it's taut on the rope I wind it right up and the same with the other one. Once the rope is tight it doesn't move. In early days I didn't wait for it to move before winding the paddle and the surge broke a couple of ropes. I use 18mm centre ropes these days.

Because once the rope's tight I use both paddles, it's a lot quicker than most crewed boats who don't tie up and tend to come up on half a paddle most of the way. Mind you, the ones who tie up usually only use one paddle too, which is odd. 

Not all of them are ferocious, but they can change so it's a safety first system. Every time I crash a gate my fridge stops working and I have to dismantle half the kitchen to fix it...

[frangar]

6 hours ago, Paul C said:

 

The sensible thing to do would be to drive the boat appropriately, so its in the right place by the time the gate's closed (because it takes time to close a gate, and they're not going to open the paddles before the gate's closed, right)? If you can't operate the boat properly to do that, then that's your own problem. 

 

As said before, if you need help, ask for it.

Like this you mean......

[Paul C]

Just now, frangar said:

Like this you mean......

 

Yeah like that but the bit where I said, what you thought I said.

[frangar]

Just now, Paul C said:

 

Yeah like that but the bit where I said, what you thought I said.

So what was that you said if not telling others how to boat?....I think you have a bug in the Troll Bot Software.....

[ditchcrawler]

10 hours ago, Puffling said:

 

I can think of little worse than being in a lock with the volly lockies facing away from the steerer in the manner @LadyG describes.  

She did say winding down the paddle, so I don't see what difference it makes where they are looking.

The worst I have come across was on the Banbury staircase going down where the volockie wound up the paddle then went and sat on a chare facing away from the lock to read his paper. Ether Di or I are always lockside when locking through.

 

[Arthur Marshall]

1 hour ago, Athy said:

I am not sure that yelling or rectal windlass insertion would be at all appropriate ways of treating people whose motive was just to be helpful.

A helpful lady on the L&L managed to nearly sink my boat by opening the gate paddles before the ground ones. In about ten seconds she'd filled the front deck and put several inches of water into the cabin. I didn't suggest any windlass action but I surely yelled!

[frangar]

3 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

Going up I always tie the boat up on the centre line, with the boat at least in the middle of the lock, or as far back as I can get it. Then open the paddle halfway to see what happens. Usually the boat moves forward on the surge and as soon as it's taut on the rope I wind it right up and the same with the other one. Once the rope is tight it doesn't move. In early days I didn't wait for it to move before winding the paddle and the surge broke a couple of ropes. I use 18mm centre ropes these days.

Because once the rope's tight I use both paddles, it's a lot quicker than most crewed boats who don't tie up and tend to come up on half a paddle most of the way. Mind you, the ones who tie up usually only use one paddle too, which is odd. 

Not all of them are ferocious, but they can change so it's a safety first system. Every time I crash a gate my fridge stops working and I have to dismantle half the kitchen to fix it...

The trouble with that is a lot depends on the position of the bollard....depth of lock....and length of boat..for each given lock. Hence why I find it easier with a 50ft deep draughted boat to ride the gates. Having said that if it works for you and your boat then thats fine..But I know may locks where it wouldn't stop me slamming the gates or would cause other issues.

[Paul C]

4 minutes ago, frangar said:

So what was that you said if not telling others how to boat?....I think you have a bug in the Troll Bot Software.....

I am suggesting MtB thinks a step ahead, such that he can avoid a lot of the problems he has created for himself. Suggesting, not telling.

3 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

A helpful lady on the L&L managed to nearly sink my boat by opening the gate paddles before the ground ones. In about ten seconds she'd filled the front deck and put several inches of water into the cabin. I didn't suggest any windlass action but I surely yelled!

Leaky front doors?

[frangar]

Just now, Paul C said:

I am suggesting MtB thinks a step ahead, such that he can avoid a lot of the problems he has created for himself. Suggesting, not telling.

He really hasn't created any problems for himself....if left to work a lock how he wants to then all is fine....only when someone tries to "help" do problems arise...as you are proving.

[ditchcrawler]

1 minute ago, Paul C said:

 

Leaky front doors?

Lots have bloody great vents in them to keep the BSS chaps happy

[frangar]

2 minutes ago, Paul C said:

 

Leaky front doors?

Your ignorance is really showing now.....

[Paul C]

2 minutes ago, frangar said:

He really hasn't created any problems for himself....if left to work a lock how he wants to then all is fine....only when someone tries to "help" do problems arise...as you are proving.

 

True, by letting MtB or any other boater relegate the volockie to gongoozler status, he (probably) could have got through the lock eventually.

 

The original point remains....that once the boat is in the lock and the gates are shut, the next step in lock operation is the opening of the paddles to alter the water level as appropriate. If he wants to do something the volockie is not expecting - like positioning in a specific way, getting off the boat, or attaching a rope/line to something, he'd better either 1) make that crystal clear or 2) do it before the gate is shut..........because some volockies and many 'helpers' don't wait, or don't feel the need to check with the boater of the boat in the lock. Its simply laying the facts out. Think of it as the locking equivalent of defensive driving.

 

The volockie is there for a reason. Sometimes that reason is so they can 'play' with the canal system, in much the same way MtB wants to.

 

 

8 minutes ago, frangar said:

Your ignorance is really showing now.....

 

So they DON'T leak but the water still gets through? 

[David Schweizer]

29 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

Going up I always tie the boat up on the centre line, with the boat at least in the middle of the lock, or as far back as I can get it. Then open the paddle halfway to see what happens. Usually the boat moves forward on the surge and as soon as it's taut on the rope I wind it right up and the same with the other one. Once the rope is tight it doesn't move. In early days I didn't wait for it to move before winding the paddle and the surge broke a couple of ropes. I use 18mm centre ropes these days.

Because once the rope's tight I use both paddles, it's a lot quicker than most crewed boats who don't tie up and tend to come up on half a paddle most of the way. Mind you, the ones who tie up usually only use one paddle too, which is odd. 

Not all of them are ferocious, but they can change so it's a safety first system. Every time I crash a gate my fridge stops working and I have to dismantle half the kitchen to fix it...

The proceedure I used was very similar, bystanders often commented the the rope was too taught or too loose, but over the years one learnt to judge. based on the depth of the lock, how much rope was required to prevent it hitting the gates.

 

 

10 minutes ago, Paul C said:

True, by letting MtB or any other boater relegate the volockie to gongoozler status, he (probably) could have got through the lock eventually.

 

The original point remains....that once the boat is in the lock and the gates are shut, the next step in lock operation is the opening of the paddles to alter the water level as appropriate. If he wants to do something the volockie is not expecting - like positioning in a specific way, getting off the boat, or attaching a rope/line to something, he'd better either 1) make that crystal clear or 2) do it before the gate is shut..........because some volockies and many 'helpers' don't wait, or don't feel the need to check with the boater of the boat in the lock. Its simply laying the facts out. Think of it as the locking equivalent of defensive driving.

 

The volockie is there for a reason. Sometimes that reason is so they can 'play' with the canal system, in much the same way MtB wants to.

 

Have you stopped to consider how pompous and patronizing some of your posts read?

 

 

Edited July 23, 2022 by David Schweizer

[Paul C]

3 minutes ago, David Schweizer said:

 

 

 

Have you stopped to cobsider how pompous and patronizing some of your posts read?

 

Its blindingly obvious that this forum is a vacuous soap box for a minority of bored boaters and non-boaters who metaphorically 'like the sound of their own voice' (myself included). It has absolutely no relevance to actual boating which occurs on the canal network. So, yes I am aware how pompous and patronizing today's posts have been, but as explained I am bored and playing devil's advocate with some of the half-baked drivel which is posted by others here.

 

Thanks for the reminder though, normal service will be resumed shortly.

[frangar]

7 minutes ago, David Schweizer said:

 

 

Have you stopped to consider how pompous and patronizing some of your posts read?

 

 

Probably not....but he is just the sort that doesn't think about any sort of boating etiquette.

1 minute ago, Paul C said:

 

Its blindingly obvious that this forum is a vacuous soap box for a minority of bored boaters and non-boaters who metaphorically 'like the sound of their own voice' (myself included). It has absolutely no relevance to actual boating which occurs on the canal network. So, yes I am aware how pompous and patronizing today's posts have been, but as explained I am bored and playing devil's advocate with some of the half-baked drivel which is posted by others here.

 

Thanks for the reminder though, normal service will be resumed shortly.

I think the term you are looking for is Troll.....like I said a while ago....

[Jim Riley]

10 minutes ago, Paul C said:

 

True, by letting MtB or any other boater relegate the volockie to gongoozler status, he (probably) could have got through the lock eventually.

 

The original point remains....that once the boat is in the lock and the gates are shut, the next step in lock operation is the opening of the paddles to alter the water level as appropriate. If he wants to do something the volockie is not expecting - like positioning in a specific way, getting off the boat, or attaching a rope/line to something, he'd better either 1) make that crystal clear or 2) do it before the gate is shut..........because some volockies and many 'helpers' don't wait, or don't feel the need to check with the boater of the boat in the lock. Its simply laying the facts out. Think of it as the locking equivalent of defensive driving.

 

The volockie is there for a reason. Sometimes that reason is so they can 'play' with the canal system, in much the same way MtB wants to.

 

 

 

So they DON'T leak but the water still gets through? 

My understanding is that Volockies are trained to ask if the boater needs help before taking action, if the answer is "whack em up" then fine. You are handing control to the volockie in saying that the boater should anticipate the actions of someone on the bank. No one is suggesting that the volockie is relegated to gongoozler status, allowing them to rush in is relegating the boater to gongoozler. It's about appropriate and prompt communication while respecting the wishes of the boater. 

 

[LadyG]

1 hour ago, howardang said:

Surely Lady G was saying that he/she needed assistance, not instructions.

 

Howard 

 I am concerned that if vlockies are not trained on  day 1 lock 1 to communicate with the boater, someone is to going to get the wrong idea.

In this instance, there was a cluster of CRT people on a workboat, on the lock landing, it turned out the were cleaning up the canal.

The gates were open, I hovered.

CRT  had opened the gates, and then a CRT guy came up to me and we agreed I was to enter the lock and they would do the rest. Fine, and I was quite happy to be put through, there was another boat following me so we went through together.

The CRT wanted to train the brand new vlocky, so it was only sensible to let them get on with it. 

 

[Victor Vectis]

5 hours ago, PaulJ said:

You just reminded me of the (very new) boat(er) I met while coming up the Middlewich locks.

I have no idea how he thought he was going to get in 😀

Fenders a-dangle too!

[Captain Pegg]

59 minutes ago, Paul C said:

 

Its blindingly obvious that this forum is a vacuous soap box for a minority of bored boaters and non-boaters who metaphorically 'like the sound of their own voice' (myself included). It has absolutely no relevance to actual boating which occurs on the canal network. So, yes I am aware how pompous and patronizing today's posts have been, but as explained I am bored and playing devil's advocate with some of the half-baked drivel which is posted by others here.

 

Thanks for the reminder though, normal service will be resumed shortly.

 

I’m still waiting for you to respond specifically to any of the points I raised in response.

 

And I’m not bored; I’m boating the entire length of the Ashby Canal today.

Edited July 23, 2022 by Captain Pegg

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

6 hours ago, dmr said:

 

We had one experiene where a waiting boater untied and approached the lock whilst we still in it. He then waited about 5 feet right outside the lock oblivious to the fact that he was totally blocking our exit. It was a busy bit of towpath and quite a little audience formed.

Yes, you should have charged at them!

 

that reminds me of the other pain in the ass thing about locking!

And I am not suggesting you do it 😃

 

Waiting for a boat to come out!

They can see the gates are open, get out, come on, move it, shift. 
If a lock is being done for me, I’m in gear and getting me boat forward as soon as I see them pushing on the beams. 
Oh, and wind the paddles down after you’ve opened the gate or when shutting it again but not when the boats waiting to come out 
 

I’m not really impatient 😃

 

But when in a queue 🤬

 

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

20 minutes ago, Captain Pegg said:

 

I’m still waiting for you to respond specifically to any of the points I raised in response.

 

And I’m not bored; I’m boating the entire length of the Ashby Canal today.

I’m not bored either.

Boated all day. 
Done a few locks and enjoying a pint. 
 

Do you ever stop at the Lime Kilns?

He has some good beer on, but has gone cider mad!

A lot of it coming from the South West, so some good proper stuff. 
He says he’s doing another year and retiring. Luckily some one is lined up to take over who will endeavour to keep the good beer thing going under his guidance and help. 

[dmr]

4 minutes ago, Goliath said:

Yes, you should have charged at them!

 

that reminds me of the other pain in the ass thing about locking!

And I am not suggesting you do it 😃

 

Waiting for a boat to come out!

They can see the gates are open, get out, come on, move it, shift. 
If a lock is being done for me, I’m in gear and getting me boat forward as soon as I see them pushing on the beams. 
Oh, and wind the paddles down after you’ve opened the gate or when shutting it again but not when the boats waiting to come out 
 

I’m not really impatient 😃

 

But when in a queue 🤬

 

 

We do this sometimes, still don't fully understand, its just some locks when we have gone down and we just can't get out, even been shouted at a couple of times. I think its because we are so big, its just really hard to start the water flowing round the boat.   and then that time at Star lock, we were in there for ages, a waiting hire boater went crazy and said we were deliberately making him wait. I said we were sat on the bottom. I opened a top paddle to flush us out and the hire boater almost died of rage insisting the top paddles must never be opened with the bottom gates open,  "Ive been hiring for ten years and never seen anything so stupid before" 😀

[Rob-M]

I found on a fully loaded working boat it is really difficult to get it moving out of a lock whether the lock is full or empty.

[Captain Pegg]

26 minutes ago, Goliath said:

I’m not bored either.

Boated all day. 
Done a few locks and enjoying a pint. 
 

Do you ever stop at the Lime Kilns?

He has some good beer on, but has gone cider mad!

A lot of it coming from the South West, so some good proper stuff. 
He says he’s doing another year and retiring. Luckily some one is lined up to take over who will endeavour to keep the good beer thing going under his guidance and help. 

I was in the Lime Kilns when I posted the post to which you responded.

 

First time I’ve ever been there but my dad used to go there when he worked for the electricity board just down the road.

 

The reason I put the details of my day’s boating in the present tense is that I’m just about to set off for Marston Junction.
 

I can report that Tim Taylor’s Landlord in the Lime Kilns today was better than in the Rising Sun at Shackerstone yeaterday.

Edited July 23, 2022 by Captain Pegg

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

But it’s rarely a 70 footer or a loaded boat we’re waiting for,

Usually a 50 footer with a garden on top. 😃