Speed Awareness Signs for Cyclists

[nb Innisfree]

I reckon the best sound of approach is the old fag packet in the spokes method, or modern equivalent, switchable on/off, much better than something strident which can be interpreted as aggressive, advantage is it gets gradually louder as it gets closer, similar to some EVs that have a noise generator. 

[haggis]

23 hours ago, LadyG said:

If they are blocking the towpath how am I supposed to get past them? 

But if I am coming behind them, it is natural to ping the bell, and if they make no sign that they have heard me, and are still blocking the path, I would expect that they are  deaf, in which case they need to be made aware by ringing a louder bell, remember that they are walking at 4mph and I am riding at 6mph. There is normally room for a cyclist and a pedestrian, but if they are in the middle of the towpath they could move either way. 

Should I stop and say, excuse me, this is a shared towpath,  would be kind enough to move to your left I will overtake on your right? Sometimes I have been overtaken by cyclists who don't ring a bell, but just say I'm on your right as they pass, I could do that, but I prefer the pedestrian makes the decision if such is needed. I don't get your argument, are you saying I should take a chance and just swoosh past them without alerting them to my presence? 

You don't have to get past pedestrians if there is no room on the towpath. You wait till there is room and if necessary, get off your bike and wheel it past. They have as much right to be there as you have and we all have to learn to accommodate others in what is sometimes a confined space.  As for all that bell ringing and shouting, if i was the pedestrian I'm afraid that would make me walk in the middle of the walking area of the path and leave it to you to find a way past.  If alerted or asked nicely, I will of course move aside but I will move to the non canal side. If anyone is going to fall in it won't be me! 

 

Edited January 27, 2022 by haggis
double posting!

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

1 hour ago, nb Innisfree said:

I reckon the best sound of approach is the old fag packet in the spokes method, or modern equivalent, switchable on/off, much better than something strident which can be interpreted as aggressive, advantage is it gets gradually louder as it gets closer, similar to some EVs that have a noise generator. 

We (when children) used to use lolly sticks. 
 

Who can afford a packet of flags these days?

 

[Cheshire cat]

A design speed of 30 kph. Wow! I averaged slightly less than half that yesterday on towpaths and trails. No altercations with pedestrians or the one boater I saw

I had a BW pass to use the towpaths. They were free and you used to be able to print your own from the BW website. I would guess that this was 20 years ago.

[ditchcrawler]

1 hour ago, nb Innisfree said:

I reckon the best sound of approach is the old fag packet in the spokes method, or modern equivalent, switchable on/off, much better than something strident which can be interpreted as aggressive, advantage is it gets gradually louder as it gets closer, similar to some EVs that have a noise generator. 

I have said that many times

5 minutes ago, Cheshire cat said:

 I had a BW pass to use the towpaths. They were free and you used to be able to print your own from the BW website. I would guess that this was 20 years ago.

Got mine from Branston Stop House 20 years ago

[IanD]

1 hour ago, Cheshire cat said:

A design speed of 30 kph. Wow! I averaged slightly less than half that yesterday on towpaths and trails. No altercations with pedestrians or the one boater I saw

I had a BW pass to use the towpaths. They were free and you used to be able to print your own from the BW website. I would guess that this was 20 years ago.

Before that (early 1980s) I'm pretty sure they weren't free, I seem to remember having to go the the BWB office (in Little Venice?) to get one, and paying something for it -- can't remember how much, maybe a few quid for a year?

[Ronaldo47]

In the 1980's, brake pads with leather inserts (the Rayleigh Raincheck) were on sale for a few years.  A cycling msgazine rrview noted that, on steel wheels (but not aluminium ones)  they were far more effective in the wet than rubber, and my own experience confirmed it.  As a bonus, a light brake application produced a high-pitched squeal that was a far more effective at warning  pedestrians of my approach than the bell, especially the modulated squeal produced on a wheel that was not completely true that I suppose could have given the impression my brakes were not working properly.  They seemed to last for ever, and I still have a pair on my vintage  Bickerton folding bike that I usually take with us on canal holidays.  All our other bikes have aluminium alloy wheels: it appears that neither steel wheels nor leather brake blocks are still  manufactured, 

[David Mack]

14 hours ago, dixi188 said:

As a matter if interest, why are all the speeds quoted in kph, when we use mph for all road speeds in the UK.

I know we went over to the SI system in 1971 but old units are still used sometimes, ie. knots.

Because some metrication legislation said all measures were to go metric, other than specific exceptions like road distances and speeds which could remain as miles/mph and draught beer could still be sold in pints. The distance exemption was only for roads, hence footpath and river distances are now shown in metric.

[dixi188]

David Mack, Thankyou for the clarification.

I've always rather liked the mix of metric/Imperial. It keeps your brain alert when mixing Gallons, US Gallons, Litres with Pounds and Kilos when refuelling aircraft.

I worked in aircraft engineering all my working life and Imperial measure is still in common use.

Dixi.

[Ronaldo47]

When visited Ireland in the early 1990's, they were in the process of going metric. The speed limit signs were still in  English miles per hour, but the signposts gave distances in kilometers. As the original signposts had expressed distances in Irish miles rather than English miles,  and as an Irish mile  (I believe based on 10 furlongs rather than 8) was almost exactly 2 km, it had only been necessary to double the original numbers. In some rural areas, distances on the finger signposts had been simply amended using white paint, with the ghosts of the old numbers visible underneath. 

Edited January 28, 2022 by Ronaldo47
typos

[Heartland]

You don't have to get past pedestrians if there is no room on the towpath. You wait till there is room and if necessary, get off your bike and wheel it past. They have as much right to be there as you have and we all have to learn to accommodate others in what is sometimes a confined space.  As for all that bell ringing and shouting, if i was the pedestrian I'm afraid that would make me walk in the middle of the walking area of the path and leave it to you to find a way past.  If alerted or asked nicely, I will of course move aside but I will move to the non canal side. If anyone is going to fall in it won't be me! 

 

Well said

 

[IanD]

9 minutes ago, Heartland said:

You don't have to get past pedestrians if there is no room on the towpath. You wait till there is room and if necessary, get off your bike and wheel it past. They have as much right to be there as you have and we all have to learn to accommodate others in what is sometimes a confined space.  As for all that bell ringing and shouting, if i was the pedestrian I'm afraid that would make me walk in the middle of the walking area of the path and leave it to you to find a way past.  If alerted or asked nicely, I will of course move aside but I will move to the non canal side. If anyone is going to fall in it won't be me! 

 

Well said

 

Agreed. Reasonable behaviour by both cyclists *and* pedestrians is A Good Thing 🙂

[LadyG]

17 hours ago, haggis said:

You don't have to get past pedestrians if there is no room on the towpath. You wait till there is room and if necessary, get off your bike and wheel it past. They have as much right to be there as you have and we all have to learn to accommodate others in what is sometimes a confined space.  As for all that bell ringing and shouting, if i was the pedestrian I'm afraid that would make me walk in the middle of the walking area of the path and leave it to you to find a way past.  If alerted or asked nicely, I will of course move aside but I will move to the non canal side. If anyone is going to fall in it won't be me! 

 

I've already alerted them by a polite ping, if no response I use my loud bell  as they may be hard of hearing. 

I don't think I have met solid groups of people who insist on blocking the towpath. If it come to 'rights', don't I, a cyclist have the 'right`to pass people on the towpath. I have yet to see anyone jump off a bike  in order to run past walkers, then resume their bike ride, it's just ridiculous, I could not do it if I wanted to. 

 

Edited January 28, 2022 by LadyG

[CanalRetentive]

When I was a teenager none of us had bells, it was standard practice to slow down behind pedestrians to match their pace and 'stalk' them until they noticed and moved over, if after 10 seconds or so they hadn't noticed a polite 'excuse me' would always work and they would move over. I'm amazed that adults today are ruder than teenagers of past, and I'm only 30 odd. Bells ringing as they hurtle towards you and the notion that they need not slow down and you must move. They act like the bike will stall and break if they slow down and won't even contemplate it. I really can't work it out. Annoys me no end.

[IanD]

6 minutes ago, CanalRetentive said:

When I was a teenager none of us had bells, it was standard practice to slow down behind pedestrians to match their pace and 'stalk' them until they noticed and moved over, if after 10 seconds or so they hadn't noticed a polite 'excuse me' would always work and they would move over. I'm amazed that adults today are ruder than teenagers of past, and I'm only 30 odd. Bells ringing as they hurtle towards you and the notion that they need not slow down and you must move. They act like the bike will stall and break if they slow down and won't even contemplate it. I really can't work it out. Annoys me no end.

Keep tarring everyone with the same brush, that's a good way to encourage good relations 😞

 

Some cyclists are tw*ts. Some runners, joggers or walkers are tw*ts. Some car drivers are tw*ts. Some motorcyclists are tw*ts. Some boaters are tw*ts. Some fishermen are tw*ts. Some MPs are tw*ts.

 

The problem is tw*ts, not cyclists... 😉

Edited January 28, 2022 by IanD

[CanalRetentive]

Tw*ts on foot don't expect me to move over shouting "BING BING". It would end in a fight. Give a tw*t a bike however... but anyway if they did I should not complain because of ruining the relations with them? If there was any relations there would be an aspect of respect, there is none. Therefore I will continue to complain.

Edited January 28, 2022 by CanalRetentive

[IanD]

23 minutes ago, CanalRetentive said:

Tw*ts on foot don't expect me to move over shouting "BING BING". It would end in a fight. Give a tw*t a bike however... but anyway if they did I should not complain because of ruining the relations with them? If there was any relations there would be an aspect of respect, there is none. Therefore I will continue to complain.

No, tw*ts on foot walk along the middle of the towpath with headphones on staring down at their phone, completely unaware of anyone behind them -- or sometimes in front, I've had one almost walk straight into me when I was walking, never mind on the bike.

 

Both CART and the highway code say that all users -- including pedestrians -- should respect all other users -- including cyclists. If there's room for a walker to simply walk along the side of the towpath instead of the middle -- or along a nice grass verge for a few feet -- then why shouldn't they do that? No skin off their nose, everybody happy.

 

If there isn't room then of course the cyclist shouldn't assume they'll jump into the mud to let them past -- and should always plan to slow down or stop in case they don't hear you or can't move.

 

Remember "do unto others as you would wish them to do unto you"? If I'm walking and a cyclist is approaching then I'll move over to let them past (so long as it's convenient and safe), because that's what I'd like a walker to do if I was on a bike. If I'm cycling and approaching a pedestrian I'll alert them politely to my presence and slow down (or stop) if necessary, because that's what I'd like a cyclist to do if I was the one walking. Always put yourself in the other guy's shoes, just in case you end up wearing them one day...

 

Tw*t cyclists don't do this, which is why you (justifiably) don't like them. If you then tar all cyclists with the same brush and refuse to make any allowances or move over when you could easily do so, then you're being a tw*t pedestrian 😉

Edited January 28, 2022 by IanD

[CanalRetentive]

You seem to take this all to heart don't you. I complain about cyclists believing they have priority and you end your rant by implying I'm the twat pedestrian. Proving my point. When I'm on a bike I have the respect to match other users speed, I don't make loud noises in advance expecting them to move, and only after patiently waiting for a while do I say a polite 'excuse me'. I'm right to tar you with the same brush. Enjoy your night  

[IanD]

51 minutes ago, CanalRetentive said:

You seem to take this all to heart don't you. I complain about cyclists believing they have priority and you end your rant by implying I'm the twat pedestrian. Proving my point. When I'm on a bike I have the respect to match other users speed, I don't make loud noises in advance expecting them to move, and only after patiently waiting for a while do I say a polite 'excuse me'. I'm right to tar you with the same brush. Enjoy your night  

 

I take it to heart because it saddens me to see yet another example of tribalism and division, basically "we walkers have right of way and hate cyclists, they should be banned from towpaths" is how some posts are coming over.

 

Describing what I wrote as "a rant" is simply inaccurate, it was carefully thought through and -- as far as I'm aware -- trying to be fair to all sides. Unlike your posts... 😉

 

And no, I said that if you were being deliberately obstructive to cyclists -- which seemed to be what you were saying -- then you were being a tw*t pedestrian.

 

Most pedestrians seems to not only object to a polite "ding ding" but are thankful for being warned that a bike is approaching -- and often then reply "you're welcome" after I say "thanks" when passing them. I do the same if I'm walking along the towpath and a cyclist says "thanks" if I move over -- used to walk a lot, rarely now due to Achilles tendinopathy, hence the cycling to try and keep fit. Isn't being polite to each other what people used to do in the good old days before the internet? 🙂

 

Anyone blasting them with a 140dB Hornit (not you!) is unlikely to get the same friendly reaction, and is justifiably likely to be labelled as a tw*t cyclist.

Edited January 28, 2022 by IanD

[Guest]

44 minutes ago, CanalRetentive said:

You seem to take this all to heart don't you. I complain about cyclists believing they have priority and you end your rant by implying I'm the twat pedestrian. Proving my point. When I'm on a bike I have the respect to match other users speed, I don't make loud noises in advance expecting them to move, and only after patiently waiting for a while do I say a polite 'excuse me'. I'm right to tar you with the same brush. Enjoy your night  

 

You're OK now, you’ve let him have the last word. As long as you do that when engaging with MrD all should be fine.

 

 

Edited January 28, 2022 by The Happy Nomad
To correct apalling grammar and punctuation.

[Mike Todd]

2 hours ago, LadyG said:

I've already alerted them by a polite ping, if no response I use my loud bell  as they may be hard of hearing. 

I don't think I have met solid groups of people who insist on blocking the towpath. If it come to 'rights', don't I, a cyclist have the 'right`to pass people on the towpath. I have yet to see anyone jump off a bike  in order to run past walkers, then resume their bike ride, it's just ridiculous, I could not do it if I wanted to. 

 

I think you will find that for the most part access to the towpath is permissive rather than a right.

[IanD]

3 minutes ago, Mike Todd said:

I think you will find that for the most part access to the towpath is permissive rather than a right.

True for both pedestrians and cyclists, I believe...

[Jim Riley]

1 hour ago, IanD said:

 

I take it to heart because it saddens me to see yet another example of tribalism and division, basically "we walkers have right of way and hate cyclists, they should be banned from towpaths" is how some posts are coming over.

 

Describing what I wrote as "a rant" is simply inaccurate, it was carefully thought through and -- as far as I'm aware -- trying to be fair to all sides. Unlike your posts... 😉

 

And no, I said that if you were being deliberately obstructive to cyclists -- which seemed to be what you were saying -- then you were being a tw*t pedestrian.

 

Most pedestrians seems to not only object to a polite "ding ding" but are thankful for being warned that a bike is approaching -- and often then reply "you're welcome" after I say "thanks" when passing them. I do the same if I'm walking along the towpath and a cyclist says "thanks" if I move over -- used to walk a lot, rarely now due to Achilles tendinopathy, hence the cycling to try and keep fit. Isn't being polite to each other what people used to do in the good old days before the internet? 🙂

 

Anyone blasting them with a 140dB Hornit (not you!) is unlikely to get the same friendly reaction, and is justifiably likely to be labelled as a tw*t cyclist.

My Hornit is reserved for situations that need it, on roads with cars and trucks, maybe approaching a canal bridge to alert anyone on the other side. Otherwise I do as I did today on the local paved towpath, talk to people, travel at appropriate speed. Path is wide enough to get by if walker goes to one side or another. So it's "hello, bike coming by on your right/left ("No the other left" if it's a woman😉) keep going as you are, thanks". That way they can maintain their pace if they want. 

[IanD]

51 minutes ago, Jim Riley said:

My Hornit is reserved for situations that need it, on roads with cars and trucks, maybe approaching a canal bridge to alert anyone on the other side. Otherwise I do as I did today on the local paved towpath, talk to people, travel at appropriate speed. Path is wide enough to get by if walker goes to one side or another. So it's "hello, bike coming by on your right/left ("No the other left" if it's a woman😉) keep going as you are, thanks". That way they can maintain their pace if they want. 

Glad to hear that, but it's not what your earlier post suggested 😉

 

I've found that talking to people is often less effective and possibly more startling than a "ding ding", maybe because most walkers aren't expecting anyone to suddenly start talking to them -- at least, not "Dahn Sarf" -- but a cycle bell doesn't come as any surprise. They don't have to listen to and understand the words, possibly turning round and saying "Sorry?" because they weren't expecting them and missed what you said, they just hear an approaching "ding ding" and step/walk to one side, often without even looking behind them.

 

Maybe "Oop North" people are more used to strangers talking to them without warning or provocation? 😉

[Jim Riley]

14 minutes ago, IanD said:

Glad to hear that, but it's not what your earlier post suggested 😉

 

I've found that talking to people is often less effective and possibly more startling than a "ding ding", maybe because most walkers aren't expecting anyone to suddenly start talking to them -- at least, not "Dahn Sarf" -- but a cycle bell doesn't come as any surprise. They don't have to listen to and understand the words, possibly turning round and saying "Sorry?" because they weren't expecting them and missed what you said, they just hear an approaching "ding ding" and step/walk to one side, often without even looking behind them.

 

Maybe "Oop North" people are more used to strangers talking to them without warning or provocation? 😉

Check out page 4! You are right about northerners. The mention of the Hornit was to make others aware of the little beasty, I couldn't find the irony emoji. Are those American genes you are wearing?

Have the last word if you want😉🤣🤣🤣🤣

Edited January 28, 2022 by Jim Riley