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Wood burner stove question...

Intending to install this on a 70x12 widebeam, would anyone know how many kWh's, what type (solid, multi-fuel, central heating stove...) of stoves would be suitable for this space? 

Any pointers for good brands and aesthetically appealing units would be much appreciated.

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8 minutes ago, Batainte said:

70x12 widebeam, would anyone know how many kWh's,

 

 

I'd suggest at least 8Kw

 

Wood unless sourced from sellers who have checked the moisture content is likely to be banned (no picking up bits of the tow-path)

 

If you get a multi-fuel then you can burn either dried wood or 'smokeless nuggets'

 

Another alternative is to use a diesel fired heating system such as an eberspacher, these will power hot water and central heating radiators (or you can get underfloor 'blown hot air') and the boiler is tucked away, just as it in a house.

 

Benefits of these are threefold (at least)

 

1) You already have a huge tank of fuel available - no need to carry &/or store loads of bags of 'coal' or wood.

2) Instant heat - switch it on and within minutes hot radiators - no waiting for an hour or two for the radiators to get hot (great for cool evenings in Spring or Autumn when you don't need a 'fire').

3) Clean - no ash or coal dust floating about.

 

Also the cost will be similar to a multifuel stove installation (after all the pipework etc is the same)

 

I have an 8Kw blown-air system on my boat, - we switch it on when we get on the boat, it is thermostatically controlled and switches itself on and off to maintain the chosen temperature, we switch it off when the leave the boat (maybe 6 months later) Pretty much the same as an oil-fired, or gas-fired domestic system, you don't turn that on and off every hour - just set it and leave it.

There is no reason to try and make a boat more complicated than it needs to be.

 

There are many options - consider them all before making a final choice.

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You have stunned the experienced posters.

I think they will need a bit more discussion or or info.

I have little experience of living aboard, and that is Q 1 Have you lived with a coal fire?

If you live in a house do you like instant warmth, at the flick of a switch?

My narrowboat is foam insulated, it is approx 6x44 internal space, and  most days I am in T shirt and shorts, or even cosy jammies if it is very cold outside. That is 'cos it's not easy to control  heat output, and if it goes out it's a pain to get it going again.

So, first thing might be the make of stove, is it controlable?

Second thing is the fuel, its coal, but not as you know it,  and some is more dirty than others.

I think my stove outputs 5KW at max output, it would not be big enough for your boat.

I have Webasto as a back up, I think it's essential to have a decent back up if you want to live as though you are in a modern house.

 

 

 

 

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Without being funny, a very big one if it is your sole heating source and you want to be toasty in a bad winter. And it will have to be central in the boat to get reasonable even heat distribution unless it is heating a full set of radiators.

 

I have tried a few time to work out heat losses in canal boats but establishing U values for varied constructions and materials makes it almost impossible.

I have never found a U value for 6mm steel with 30mm spray foam with water the other side!

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I've used Refleks stoves when fitting out my boats. This table provided by the manufacturer is a pretty good rough guide to tell you what size stove you need.  For example, a 5KW model is ample for a well insulated 70' narrow boat.

Sorry, I've no idea how many cubic metres you need to heat in a wide beam.

 

refleks.jpg.2f3dfc76676b4999a4a86a6ed918a8b3.jpg

Edited by koukouvagia
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6 minutes ago, koukouvagia said:

I've used Refleks stoves when fitting out my boats. This table provided by the manufacturer is a pretty good rough guide to tell you what size stove you need.  For example, a 5KW model is ample for a well insulated 70' narrow boat.

Sorry, I've no idea how many cubic metres you need to heat in a wide beam.

 

refleks.jpg.2f3dfc76676b4999a4a86a6ed918a8b3.jpg

 

That's a very handy chart. Thank you for publishing.

A full size wide beam will be a considerable volume. It is very difficult to establish the heat loss from such a large volume and surface area without any reliable heat loss figures. 

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5 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

I'd suggest at least 8Kw

 

Wood unless sourced from sellers who have checked the moisture content is likely to be banned (no picking up bits of the tow-path)

 

Just to clarify there is no legislation to stop people scrounging their own wood and burning it, apart from theft and trespass I suppose but nothing in the new legislation 

 

Edited by tree monkey
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1 hour ago, tree monkey said:

Just to clarify there is no legislation to stop people scrounging their own wood and burning it, apart from theft and trespass I suppose but nothing in the new legislation 

 

On the basis that it will be almost twice the volume and thrice the surface area I would guess at 10kw minimum.

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21 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

On the basis that it will be almost twice the volume and thrice the surface area I would guess at 10kw minimum.

That's interesting but I suspect you've quoted the wrong person 

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I have been living on my wide beam 60 x 12.6 for around 8 months now, basic sail away new in Dec 2019 - I installed a 6.4 kW Multi fuel stove. Stanley Oisin. We have had snow and frosty mornings in Ireland - Our doors both front and rear are not exceptionally air tight, and all our vents are open fully. We get around 20 C with the stove fired up all day - this is very comfortable. 

 

I was against the multi-fuel and still am. My wife twisted my arm on this but is now more open to changing to a diesel burner like Refleks - I have my heart set on an Effel diesel heater with scope for radiators - this model is around 4.7 kW on the stove alone - another 8kW is available with the radiator coil and radiators - dependant on the number of radiators - I'm not too sure how the manufacturer determines this output, but I trust the information so far. 

 

I am also installing a diesel powered air heater - As Alan has mentioned, this is for "instant" heating on unexpectedly cold mornings in warmer seasons...

 

 

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23 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

On the basis that it will be almost twice the volume and thrice the surface area I would guess at 10kw minimum.

Fit a really big one,bigger than 10kw.If the boat gets too warm you can always turn it down.

If it's too small you will be sitting there with a blanket around your shoulders like in an old folks home.

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2 hours ago, Tracy D'arth said:

On the basis that it will be almost twice the volume and thrice the surface area I would guess at 10kw minimum.

 

I might be able to get you on a technicality here :clapping:

 

In most cases volume increases more steeply than surface area. For a sphere volume is R3 (cubed) whilst surface area is R2 (squared).

Imagine two narrowboats side by side to make a widebeam, twice the volume but less than twice the surface area because we loose the "party walls".

 

Oh no, I cant believe I writing this pedant stuff,  lock down insanity, think I will go for a good crap, when the poo tank is full then we get to go boating because its an essential journey 😀

 

...............Dave

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4 minutes ago, dmr said:

 

I might be able to get you on a technicality here :clapping:

 

In most cases volume increases more steeply than surface area. For a sphere volume is R3 (cubed) whilst surface area is R2 (squared).

Imagine two narrowboats side by side to make a widebeam, twice the volume but less than twice the surface area because we loose the "party walls".

 

Oh no, I cant believe I writing this pedant stuff,  lock down insanity, think I will go for a good crap, when the poo tank is full then we get to go boating because its an essential journey 😀

 

...............Dave

This depends on the dimensionality of the surface ....

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8 minutes ago, Scholar Gypsy said:

This depends on the dimensionality of the surface ....

 

That's why I said "in most cases", if we made the boat out of corrugated steel a la Citroen H van then the surface area would increase more than the volume, I quite fancy an H boat.

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaagh   time for another poo, only 6 weeks to go.

 

.............Dave

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9 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Another alternative is to use a diesel fired heating system such as an eberspacher, these will power hot water and central heating radiators (or you can get underfloor 'blown hot air') and the boiler is tucked away, just as it in a house.

 

 

In my humble opinion, for a liveaboard an eberspacher or Webasto isn't an alternative to a solid fuel stove, it's an addition at best. They're fine while they're working but you don't want to be relying solely on one of those in the middle of a cold winter. If it stops working it could take days to fix or get someone out to fix it. The only viable diesel alternative is one of the drip fed diesel stoves.

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I have a Rayburn Royal with enlarged backboiler, it does hot water and radiators.  Its over 10 kw and with the right fuel can do 36 hours on one fill.

I also have a 5 kw bubble stove with backboiler, its advantages over any solid fuel stove are as follows 

It lights in seconds 

Its clean 

Controllable 

It can use diesel, kerosene or full biodiesel 

As mine lives in bedroom which is bigger than most narrowboats whole living area all the above points are important. 

My boat is a 57 x 12 with wheelhouse so you have another 13 foot to heat 2 heat sources are essential 

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17 hours ago, dmr said:

 

I might be able to get you on a technicality here :clapping:

 

In most cases volume increases more steeply than surface area. For a sphere volume is R3 (cubed) whilst surface area is R2 (squared).

Imagine two narrowboats side by side to make a widebeam, twice the volume but less than twice the surface area because we loose the "party walls".

 

Oh no, I cant believe I writing this pedant stuff,  lock down insanity, think I will go for a good crap, when the poo tank is full then we get to go boating because its an essential journey 😀

 

...............Dave

You are quite correct ,,,,,pedant.

 

Its twice the volume but one and a half times the surface area, very roughly. I just felt like getting the word "Thrice" in, knowing that someone would impale themselves on my hook.

 

Gotcha!

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35 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

You are quite correct ,,,,,pedant.

 

Its twice the volume but one and a half times the surface area, very roughly. I just felt like getting the word "Thrice" in, knowing that someone would impale themselves on my hook.

 

Gotcha!

 

Thrice is a good word, Thruppence is even better but not so easy to use on a boaty forum.

 

 

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10 minutes ago, David Mack said:

Noah said now "Whats the price of yon maple?"
And Sam answered "Three ha'pence a foot."

 

 

Or :

 

     Shine your buttons with Brasso
     It's only three ha'pence a tin
     You can buy it or whip it from Woolworths
     But I don't think they've got any in.

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