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Responsible or Irresponsible Tier 3 Cruising?


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20 hours ago, LadyG said:

Everything they touch will be infected, and let's face it, those masks are pretty minimal. I don't know why you think one needs to cough or sneeze, it's in the infected person's lungs, try blowing hard on a frosty morning, that's s going to be about the same as someone jogging or running past you. Moist particles, virus in suspension. Coughing and sneezing will project more stuff further, but just breathing in to someone's airspace is very risky. 

Asymptomatic carriers infect people when they are not taking precautions like a face mask and staying distanced. To say that everything they touch is infected is a little extreme. The surface transmission route is minor. There was a study a while back where scientists tried and failed to grow viable virus from indoor surfaces touched by infected people. I think it would help people to focus more on distancing and masks rather than quarantining their shopping for 3 days in the shed but yelling at the neighbours over the gate for 30 minutes🤦‍♂️

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10 minutes ago, Dave123 said:

Asymptomatic carriers infect people when they are not taking precautions like a face mask and staying distanced. To say that everything they touch is infected is a little extreme. The surface transmission route is minor. There was a study a while back where scientists tried and failed to grow viable virus from indoor surfaces touched by infected people. I think it would help people to focus more on distancing and masks rather than quarantining their shopping for 3 days in the shed but yelling at the neighbours over the gate for 30 minutes🤦‍♂️

So why do they keep stressing wash your hands?   It might be more effective to drop that and put more stress on masks and social distance if that is correct.

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1 hour ago, Jerra said:

So why do they keep stressing wash your hands?   It might be more effective to drop that and put more stress on masks and social distance if that is correct.

Because the time between an airborne virus landing on your hand and being transferred to your ingestion orifices is considerably shorter than the time between a virus landing on a hard surface and the time then elapsing before your hand contacts said surface (if this time is long enough there may not even be a live virus by that time) and onwards to your facial orifices. 

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On 10/01/2021 at 15:27, Dr Bob said:

What do you call a fish with no eye?

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Fsh!

:offtopic: Reminds me of a time at work when one second line manager's usual lines was:

 

"There is no 'I' in team."

 

My retort didn't go down too well, with him, anyway:

"No, but there is 5 'in platitude quoting idiot'."

 

He never used that phrase again, funny that.

 

I did however get taken to one side by him after the meeting and was asked to be more respectful.

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15 minutes ago, Bigtwin said:

Because the time between an airborne virus landing on your hand and being transferred to your ingestion orifices is considerably shorter than the time between a virus landing on a hard surface and the time then elapsing before your hand contacts said surface (if this time is long enough there may not even be a live virus by that time) and onwards to your facial orifices. 

I haven't come across any evidence of aerosols settling quickly so assume the hands pick up the virus from touching things.   If the aerosols are falling out fast enough to land on moving surfaces the proven cases of the virus being recirculated by aircon etc begin to look weak.

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18 minutes ago, Jerra said:

I haven't come across any evidence of aerosols settling quickly so assume the hands pick up the virus from touching things.   If the aerosols are falling out fast enough to land on moving surfaces the proven cases of the virus being recirculated by aircon etc begin to look weak.

If the aerosols dont fall at all, being carried in the mist and fog, 4C, ideal temperatures, and no winds we have had on and off for weeks now, it doesnt need to touch our hands.

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2 minutes ago, matty40s said:

If the aerosols dont fall at all, being carried in the mist and fog, 4C, ideal temperatures, and no winds we have had on and off for weeks now, it doesnt need to touch our hands.

So why are they still pushing wash your hands.   That was the point I was making is, it seems infection from touching anything is fairly unlikely and yet they keep hammering away at wash your hands.

 

IMO if it is so unlikely from touch why not make the message clearer by cutting out the hands and stressing the masks and social distancing and stay at home.

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13 minutes ago, Ronaldo47 said:

Probably because people do unconciously use their hands to touch their own faces and rub their noses.

That is entirely correct Ronaldo, but in here people want a 3 page, 50 post argument over which finger transmits most and which supermarket carrier bag are you most likely to catch it off.😉

Happy Nomad will be along shortly.

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2 minutes ago, matty40s said:

That is entirely correct Ronaldo, but in here people want a 3 page, 50 post argument over which finger transmits most and which supermarket carrier bag are you most likely to catch it off.😉

Happy Nomad will be along shortly.

Pathetic.

 

 

On the Scotch again I take it.

19 minutes ago, Ronaldo47 said:

Probably because people do unconciously use their hands to touch their own faces and rub their noses.

You are likely correct.

 

Its a mode of transmission. Washing hands cuts that route out, or at the very least reduces its potential.

 

But not only that its very easy to do.

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10 minutes ago, matty40s said:

 which supermarket carrier bag are you most likely to catch it off.😉

Happy Nomad will be along shortly.

Don't use them, you have to pay for them

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18 hours ago, Dave123 said:

Asymptomatic carriers infect people when they are not taking precautions like a face mask and staying distanced. To say that everything they touch is infected is a little extreme. The surface transmission route is minor. There was a study a while back where scientists tried and failed to grow viable virus from indoor surfaces touched by infected people. I think it would help people to focus more on distancing and masks rather than quarantining their shopping for 3 days in the shed but yelling at the neighbours over the gate for 30 minutes🤦‍♂️

Couple of points:

 

The fomite transmission thing was based on the previous variant.  It's premature to assume the new variant will be the same.  We know it's far more transmissable. 

 

The efficacy of masks is highly variable, based on the materials used and how it's worn.  It's a dangerous presumption that wearing a mask will remove all (or nearly all) risk.

 

I've seen the Lancet article you linked to before.  Be aware that this is just an opinion piece, as stated in the article itself.  The author has looked at some studies and made a supposition based on them.  Nothing more.  Also, note that the author is not especially noted for any other article he's ever written, other than this one.  He did get a fair bit of coverage from it though...

 

Having said all that.  He's probably right.  The evidence does point to respiratory droplets being the primary transmission source.  But exercising caution is never a bad thing.  Asymptomatic people do not need to be coughing or sneezing to spread the virus, respiratory droplets are exhaled every single time you breathe out.

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56 minutes ago, doratheexplorer said:

Couple of points:

 

The fomite transmission thing was based on the previous variant.  It's premature to assume the new variant will be the same.  We know it's far more transmissable. 

 

The efficacy of masks is highly variable, based on the materials used and how it's worn.  It's a dangerous presumption that wearing a mask will remove all (or nearly all) risk.

 

I've seen the Lancet article you linked to before.  Be aware that this is just an opinion piece, as stated in the article itself.  The author has looked at some studies and made a supposition based on them.  Nothing more.  Also, note that the author is not especially noted for any other article he's ever written, other than this one.  He did get a fair bit of coverage from it though...

 

Having said all that.  He's probably right.  The evidence does point to respiratory droplets being the primary transmission source.  But exercising caution is never a bad thing.  Asymptomatic people do not need to be coughing or sneezing to spread the virus, respiratory droplets are exhaled every single time you breathe out.

I think the take home message is not to be driven to distraction or hysteria over surfaces, like the stories of people refusing to shut gates in farmers fields or spraying their shopping with bleach. I'd say there may also be a risk of attaining some false sense of security from obsessive behaviour over surface transmission that may lead to complacency with other things like spending too long or being too close when talking to others (masks or no masks).

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1 hour ago, doratheexplorer said:

Asymptomatic people do not need to be coughing or sneezing to spread the virus, respiratory droplets are exhaled every single time you breathe out.

A very good point.   For anybody who doesn't believe/understand nip outside on a cold day and breathe out.   The condensation in your breath is the larger particles.

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19 hours ago, Dave123 said:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7333993/

An excellent read and hopefully understandable to non scientists.

I think the Lancet used to be more science based, with original work, but nowadays the real scientific papers are published for peer review online.

This is not original work as far as I can identify, it's taken extracts from other folks works, and has been redacted or altered by review. 

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We wipe our (home delivery) shopping down with anti-bac wipes. Along with anything else delivered to the house. Some items are simply quarantined for 72 hours if not needed sooner.

 

Fresh produce is rinsed under running water were possible, which is recommended anyway even in non covid times.

 

I'm not sure if that makes us mentally certifiable or not but will continue doing so for the foreseeable.

Edited by The Happy Nomad
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15 minutes ago, Jerra said:

I think you will find there is a poster on this forum who sprays her shopping.

C'est moi, at least in the early days, I wiped everything before it was allowed on board, as folks were not adjusting their shopping habits, I would still assume everyone who touches my food is infected, that way I guard myself against infection. Advice has eased a bit, so I have relaxed that precaution, but I get all my groceries delivered, and I still wash my hands! 

I have a guy on board today fixing my gearbox etc, I washed all surfaces before he came, and will do same when he leaves. Best news is, no major fault found, just a lack of grease, etc. It's not easy to know what is 'normal`if one only has limited experience (I can't believe I admitted to that!). 

Jo

Edited by LadyG
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3 minutes ago, Jerra said:

I think you will find there is a poster on this forum who sprays her shopping.

I don't spray my shopping but I do leave it to one side overnight after it's arrived.  Does that make me a nutter?  If everyone was suitably cautious, we wouldn't be in this situaton.

 

A few days ago I was accused of typing twaddle (by a mod, no less), for saying that people should not be shopping in pairs where they can avoid it.  Then on this morning's news the supermarkets were again urging people to shop alone if they can.

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2 hours ago, LadyG said:

C'ets moi, at least I early days, I wiped everything before it was allowed on board, as advice has lessened a bit, so I have relaxed that, but I get all my groceries delivered, and I still wash my hands! 

We have maintained our regime given the potential of increased 'transmissibility' of the new variant.

2 hours ago, doratheexplorer said:

I don't spray my shopping but I do leave it to one side overnight after it's arrived.  Does that make me a nutter?  If everyone was suitably cautious, we wouldn't be in this situaton.

 

A few days ago I was accused of typing twaddle (by a mod, no less), for saying that people should not be shopping in pairs where they can avoid it.  Then on this morning's news the supermarkets were again urging people to shop alone if they can.

I was amazed last night to see on the news that Morrison's are going to ask people who are not wearing a mask and don't have a medical exemption to leave their stores. They will be offered a mask but if they refuse the offer they will not be allowed entry.

 

I can't believe its taken so long for them to catch on to this and enforce it.

 

The rest are now following suit.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55633843

 

Talk about bolting the stable door when the horse has gone, caught a train, a plane and is now on the other side of the planet.

Edited by The Happy Nomad
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