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What are these brick sheds at every bridge on the shroppie?


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40 minutes ago, BEngo said:

No.  Excel or other ovoids ash is pretty useless because it is all too fine.  You need a few biggish lumps and some pretty coarse fines so that it gets caught in the gaps and progressively  fills them up.

N

We use ash to seal the dry dock. Our ash is kept in old bitumen tubs which each moorer has one of to fill. Most of our moorers burn excel or Winterblaze. Nobody burns coal.

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3 hours ago, ivan&alice said:

Very interesting, I see the grooves int' bridge holes now that I look. 

 

How effective are they actually at stopping the water? Would imagine they're pretty leaky?

 

I imagine it partly comes down to how often they're needed, if not very often then some other kind of adjustable barrier probably makes more sense than storing them at every bridge. But also, how old are they - if they are already there from times gone by, then perhaps it ain't a broke thing to fix?

 

 

Have a look at

2 mins 45 seconds in

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Happened to be talking to Mary of Bethsaida Covers at Shebdon about this today. There have been a couple of fairly recent breaches of the embankment here when presumably the stop planks were used and looking at the badger damage below us, the next one could be soon although after lockdown we hope or we could be caught out! A quick search on here has found this: 

 

Edited by wandering snail
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7 hours ago, ivan&alice said:

Very interesting, I see the grooves int' bridge holes now that I look. 

 

How effective are they actually at stopping the water? Would imagine they're pretty leaky?

 

I imagine it partly comes down to how often they're needed, if not very often then some other kind of adjustable barrier probably makes more sense than storing them at every bridge. But also, how old are they - if they are already there from times gone by, then perhaps it ain't a broke thing to fix?

 

 

I've seen them used of the ponty aqueduct, they took a lot of fettling to slide into the groove, mainly clearing silt and crud but they were effective if leaky but as they swelled with the water they became very very effective.

 

The dry dock at Trevor uses the same principle and again they became more watertight as time went on, although I admit being in the dock whilst a boat failed to make the turn and slammed into the swing bridge directly over the planks and sent a small tsunami of water over the top of the planks was a bum twitching moment  :) they hold back a hell of a lot of water

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For years I was annoyed that marina entrances were so narrow and I couldn't understand why. Until the penny finally dropped that they need to be so they can deploy stop planks to keep their water in case of a breach or a CRT planned drainage of the canal. 

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I've seen some marinas with lock gates even though they were are the same water level. I've also seen (including here on the shroppie) some single lock gates (often in a state of disrepair) which I assume are for the same purpose as the stop planks.

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28 minutes ago, ivan&alice said:

I've seen some marinas with lock gates even though they were are the same water level. I've also seen (including here on the shroppie) some single lock gates (often in a state of disrepair) which I assume are for the same purpose as the stop planks.

Were the single sets of gates, now mostly decrepit, on canals, ever supposed to work automatically? A breach sets up a flow of water, which slams shut the gates, protecting the water level above? I know some on the tributaries to the River Witham work like that, for example, the one below on the Kyme Eau navigation, but they are set at an angle, ready to be pushed by the rising water of a flood and not recessed parallel to the bank side.

Jen

kyme-eau-gates.JPG.5ee411c6d15c69c0b7eaec3538290818.JPG

 

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29 minutes ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

Were the single sets of gates, now mostly decrepit, on canals, ever supposed to work automatically? A breach sets up a flow of water, which slams shut the gates, protecting the water level above? I know some on the tributaries to the River Witham work like that, for example, the one below on the Kyme Eau navigation, but they are set at an angle, ready to be pushed by the rising water of a flood and not recessed parallel to the bank side.

Jen

kyme-eau-gates.JPG.5ee411c6d15c69c0b7eaec3538290818.JPG

 

I've always presumed that the gates were designed to close automatically with the flow of water but seeing as most are now chained open it would need someone to go out and unlock them.

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10 minutes ago, Rob-M said:

I've always presumed that the gates were designed to close automatically with the flow of water but seeing as most are now chained open it would need someone to go out and unlock them.

Are they locked or weighted chains to draw them open with no flow in the wrong direction and stop them swinging in the breeze.

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12 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

Are they locked or weighted chains to draw them open with no flow in the wrong direction and stop them swinging in the breeze.

The one on the Worcester Birmingham look like they are locked back. I've gone through some of the bridge holes quite quick to see if I could drag a gate closed behind me and they only ever move a few inches until the chain goes tight.

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4 minutes ago, Rob-M said:

The one on the Worcester Birmingham look like they are locked back. I've gone through some of the bridge holes quite quick to see if I could drag a gate closed behind me and they only ever move a few inches until the chain goes tight.

Sorry I thought we were talking about the ones like in the photo, not the ones in the canal.

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Sort of answering my own question. I've found a photo of the Kyme Eau gates, taken from the river Witham side. These clearly show props to stop them opening fully and thus help them shut automatically when the level of the Witham rises. The gates were brand new when these pics were taken in 2013, so this is how it is supposed to work. This suggests that having the gates partially closed is essential to them working properly and that the opened fully back ones on canals would probably need a firm boot from a lengthsman to start to shut them in the event of a breach.

Jen

kyme-eau-gates-1.JPG.a8035ce704584675f3ac188cc9ce472c.JPG

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1 hour ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

Were the single sets of gates, now mostly decrepit, on canals, ever supposed to work automatically?

They wouldn't have needed to be automatic back in the day when there was always a lengthsman or a lock keeper living and working nearby, who could be on site very quickly and give the gate a manual shove.

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3 hours ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

Were the single sets of gates, now mostly decrepit, on canals, ever supposed to work automatically? A breach sets up a flow of water, which slams shut the gates, protecting the water level above? I know some on the tributaries to the River Witham work like that, for example, the one below on the Kyme Eau navigation, but they are set at an angle, ready to be pushed by the rising water of a flood and not recessed parallel to the bank side.

Jen

kyme-eau-gates.JPG.5ee411c6d15c69c0b7eaec3538290818.JPG

 

The top gates of Lodes End lock, on the middle level, work as one-way waterflow gates. When the level in the main pond of the Middle level is lower than the west end, that gates wing open to let water flow out (and boats can go through on the level). When the main pond is higher, they swing shut to stop water flowing westward into the section where the banks are lower. The gates have a loose chain between them which allows them to swing open about a metre, and very strict instructions that said chain, which is locked with a navigation key, MUST be replaced after using the lock. I'm sure the reason for this is that fully open gates will not reliably swing closed when reverse flow starts.

 

MP.

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1 hour ago, David Mack said:

They wouldn't have needed to be automatic back in the day when there was always a lengthsman or a lock keeper living and working nearby, who could be on site very quickly and give the gate a manual shove.

Like the breach protection gates at Marston Jabbett at the entrance to the Moira Cut.
Cottage & gates long gone.

Marston Jabbett cottages.jpg

Edited by Ray T
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There are a range of types; Brindley and Rennie liked those which lay flat on the canal bed, though raised slightly to allow them to operate, automatically in theory, when there was a flow of water. They soon became covered in rubbish and silt. Whitworth used more conventional emergency gates on the L&LC, but without a balance beam. When there was a significant flow, they could be swiftly push out to stop further water loss. There are probably other types, The photo shows one of Rennie's design on the Lancaster at Adlington. It had two gates which folded onto the canal bed, so could operate in either direction. There was a fixed wooden vertical in the centre of the semicircular arch, and either gate would seal against it.

Adlington 880.jpg

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Just now, The Happy Nomad said:

I always understood that was a 'stop lock' to gather tolls.

 

Am I wrong?

 

Both, there were two sets of opposing gates at the bridge end where the Moira Cut joins The Coventry.

The motor is Rocket with two butties crewed by the Barrett Family.

 

MB Rocket.jpg

Edited by Ray T
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I understand the ones one the Nantwich embankment were supposed to be automatic, but they have always been chained back.  There are some on the Trent and Mersey around Marbury that are definitely supposed to be automatic.  Can’t recall if they are chained.

 One problem with them being automatic is that if they did close ( or were closed), they could be difficult to open again.  At Nantwich the flow is north so the embankment side of the south stop gate could expect to drop (although the Llangollen input would help keep it up).  As we know, the level only has to drop an inch or so to make the gate very difficult to open.

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15 minutes ago, Pluto said:

There are a range of types; Brindley and Rennie liked those which lay flat on the canal bed, though raised slightly to allow them to operate, automatically in theory, when there was a flow of water. They soon became covered in rubbish and silt. Whitworth used more conventional emergency gates on the L&LC, but without a balance beam. When there was a significant flow, they could be swiftly push out to stop further water loss. There are probably other types, The photo shows one of Rennie's design on the Lancaster at Adlington. It had two gates which folded onto the canal bed, so could operate in either direction. There was a fixed wooden vertical in the centre of the semicircular arch, and either gate would seal against it.

Adlington 880.jpg

Featured in NarrowBoat Spring 2010

Brindley Gates.jpg

 

See also:

 

Weedon-Bridge_24.jpg.b639e504d1ceb2d7b816d964ae7d4013.jpg

 

Bridge 24 Weedon, G.U.

Edited by Ray T
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