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doratheexplorer

Shall we all stop slowing for moored boats?

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2 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

They make me want to go faster!

 

Now don't be unpleasant Nick.  I find a vigorous burst of reverse helps me "SLOW DOWN" even better whilst passing their boat. :giggles:

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I've put two springs on my boat at its mooring for the first time ever (usually just have one), and I used one when on holiday, also for the first time, just because of the number and speed of passing boats. One boat at the mooring had its rope snapped as a boat went past. Certainly worse this year.

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Funnily enough I find that youngsters driving boats are more careful and courtious about speeding than most old codgers who think they know it all and bomb along, you can always tell em, captains or Breton hat on, Mrs dithering in the front well clutching a ropes end and windless waiting for the command to leap ashore.  This behavior I reckon stems from the days when most women didn't drive and the old man drove the family car and has now found boating a way of reserecting this overwhelming might once more.

Edited by bizzard
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2 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

Now don't be unpleasant Nick.  I find a vigorous burst of reverse helps me "SLOW DOWN" even better whilst passing their boat. :giggles:

I must try that. I must admit the signs get on my nadgers, especially the ones referring to "master boaters". Amusing, vaguely, the first time you see it. The hundredth, no.

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I use pins with loops welded on them.  Not to tie the rope to (as you often see - with the loop 12" above ground level so plenty of leverage to pull the pin) but to knock another pin through. Then knock both pins in almost to ground level.  This usually is enough, but I will add a spring if I think it is needed.  Rarely have a pin pulled out, although it does happen on the narrow and shallow Shroppie.

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15 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

They make me want to go faster!

They have the same reaction from me.

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20 minutes ago, Tom and Bex said:

In our experience 95% of hire boats slow down to tickover or just above, whereas it's the opposite for private boats, who generally, at most, just knock the revs back a touch when alongside. 

 

Having said that, it really doesn't bother us how fast boats pass. We try to moor properly, and have never had pins pull out. The only time it's a slight irritation, is when moored by just the centre line at the water point, but I regard that as our fault as I'm too lazy to tie up properly!

 

I do slow down when passing all boats myself though, and slow even more for badly moored boats, and boats moored on pins. 

In the last couple of days around two thirds of hire boats have passed me way too fast.  And I don't mean slightly, I mean absolutely hammering past.  Maybe it's a problem with the local hire companies.

9 minutes ago, dor said:

I use pins with loops welded on them.  Not to tie the rope to (as you often see - with the loop 12" above ground level so plenty of leverage to pull the pin) but to knock another pin through. Then knock both pins in almost to ground level.  This usually is enough, but I will add a spring if I think it is needed.  Rarely have a pin pulled out, although it does happen on the narrow and shallow Shroppie.

I'm currently on the Shroppie. I find it's one of the better canals for using pins because the ground seems to be really firm in most places. 

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I had a pin pull out yesterday as I was mooring in Braunston, the passing boat was a deep drafted old working boat that was on tick over but as he sucked all the water out the pin pulled out the soft bank. At that point I hadn't tied the back end or put a second pin through the loop to stop it pulling out.  Once tied properly we didn't have any issues.

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3 minutes ago, doratheexplorer said:

In the last couple of days around two thirds of hire boats have passed me way too fast.  And I don't mean slightly, I mean absolutely hammering past.  Maybe it's a problem with the local hire companies.

Not unusual, they often want to cover as much ground as pssible to get their money's worth. Many are not used to steering with tillers either,   they're used to driving cars, why most hire boats on the Upper Thames and Broads have car type steering wheels.

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51 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Maybe we cannot solve the 'problem', there are (probably) about 100 active members on the forum out of 30.000+ boats on C&RT waters but we can mitigate the effects that you are worried about.

 

There were lengthy discussions about 'mooring up properly' on a recent thread and I do believe that whilst not the answer to getting boats to slow down, is certainly the answer to being 'dragged & banged about' and potentially pulling pins out.

 

The use of bow and stern lines at the correct angles, held in place with 'crossed pins' will take some moving.

The use of Spring-Lines, at the correct angles, held in place with 'crossed pins' will ensure you boat is 'fixed in place'.

 

The bow and stern lines stop the bow or stern swinging outwards, whilst the Spring lines stop it moving forwards or backwards

 

image.png.7bd105c6d0e1b4c4242621fc201a1c57.png

The Thames: Hermitage Community Moorings | Wanderlust

 

 

Crossed pins :

 

 

Month: April 2019 - Clockwise Words

 

 

 

I'm not convinced about the crossed pins. Spring lines of course, but at least one of the pins in a crossed pins arrangement is going to be at the wrong angle to the rope. Plus i could imagine the action of banging in the second pin having an effect like a garden fork does in loosening the surrounding ground? I've been in fairly soft mud during storms/speeding boats etc with 4xsingle pins for bow and stern spring lines and never had problems. I can see how crossed pins might deter vandals pulling out pins (but don't they just untie ropes?). I have seen crossed pins without spring lines getting pulled out.

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1 hour ago, doratheexplorer said:

I posted this elsewhere but thought it might need it's own thread:

 

Something which has increased dramatically this year:- not even dropping revs a smidgen when passing moored boats.  I'm moored on pins at the moment and I'd reckon about 1 in 5 boats don't slow at all.  Then most of the others do a tiny rev drop when they're first alongside you before notching the revs back up before they've even fully passed.  My current experience is that less than 1 in 10 actually slow down properly.  Maybe it's time to drop the requirement to pass moored boats slowly?  If hardly anyone is doing it, then what's the point? 

 

My thoughts on why this year is different;

 

1.  Many hire boaters about who would never usually look at a boat holiday or even a holiday in the UK.

 

2.  Many privately owned boats which normally never leave their marinas, but this year have come out because the owner's holiday options have been reduced.

 

3.  Similar to the above - many new boaters who have just bought a boat due to lockdown.

 

As speeding past moored boats has got more common, others who used to slow down are now thinking "blow it, why should I bother, if nobody else is?" So they've upped their speed too.  Certainly I'm considering it for when I'm on a tight schedule.

 

Having said all that, I expect thing to quieten down in another month or so...

I have also noticed a majority of boats passing at a faster speed, but with the majority of hire boats being respectful. A mixture of those i haven't seen before and many local club moored craft are the ones moving quickly, not sure what the cause is - cabin fever brought on by lockdown?

  As a result of this i've made a surprising observation, a lot of the club boats tend to keep a steady speed before reaching our mooring, which although faster than you may hope for, the steady rate of approach causes much less disturbance than those travelling faster and dropping their pace before reaching us.

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30 minutes ago, bizzard said:

Funnily enough I find that youngsters driving boats are more careful and courtious about speeding than most old codgers who think they know it all and bomb along, you can always tell em, captains or Breton hat on, Mrs dithering in the front well clutching a ropes end and windless waiting for the command to leap ashore.  This behavior I reckon stems from the days when most women didn't drive and the old man drove the family car and has now found boating a way of reserecting this overwhelming might once more.

Exactly this^^! 

I think another factor this year, along with it being so busy, is the slightly unpredictable mooring patterns. I've noticed spots that are usually popular and hard to find space at sometimes empty (I think many still are anxious to avoid pubs or towns) whilst spots normally empty in the middle of nowhere have been rammed. I suspect this may have thrown some people's plans and their usual cruising pattern (when we were marina based it was nice to be able to know the usual stops for the first 2 or 3 nights that space was more or less guaranteed at even late evening, allowing us to push on with an ambitious itinerary etc). I expect the anxiety of not knowing where space was guaranteed might make some in a rush?😅🤔

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48 minutes ago, doratheexplorer said:

I've been on pins on the same spot for just over a week.  I'd guess about 40 boats a day going past on average.  So around 300 in total.  My pins haven't budged at all.  My issue is that the bank is really shallow here and my fenders aren't wide enough to stop the hull from scraping about when the boats go past too fast.  I could spend my time, hollering at them to slow down (as some do), or I could address it myself by getting some big tyre fenders to solve the problem.

 

I suspect my mental health would be best served by the second option...

Well thats it, in the real world of real boating on real canals there are many many places where a bit of slack in the ropes is essential, and the boat will be sat on a shallow sloping bottom up against a sloping uneven washwall. All this spring stuff will help but is not a complete solution, that's probably why its the norm on sea boats but uncommon on the cut.

 

We cruise about in a boat over 70 foot long and displacing well over 20 ton, If we go racing past little moored Sringers or even plastic boats on a shallow canal we are going to throw them about all over the place. Why not slow down?, the cut is (or was) a place to be nice to each other, whats the rush?   If you want to rush about and piss people off then get a pushbike and race along the towpaths 😀

 

.................Dave

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A couple of cruisers  passed us while we were moored earlier this week  making a big wake , despite having reduced engine speed a little , but not sufficiently. I am not sure why they were in such a rush.

But we survived and no damage was done.  

It's difficult to imagine a wake from a narrowboat causing any issue. On the river  they can pass me at full speed if they wish.   

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14 minutes ago, BWM said:

 

  As a result of this i've made a surprising observation, a lot of the club boats tend to keep a steady speed before reaching our mooring, which although faster than you may hope for, the steady rate of approach causes much less disturbance than those travelling faster and dropping their pace before reaching us.

It's definitely the case that those who drop their revs just as they're coming alongside needn't bother.  The damage is already done.  The amount of moored boat movement from prop-wash is tiny.  It's the displacement which is the issue.  It usually takes a couple of boat lengths or more to slow down noticeably.

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and another thing.....

narrowboats are just not designed for springs, its ok for dumpers or leisure boats left unattended on moorings but for liveaboards they are a danger, they run right past where you step on and off the boat, you're likely to trip and break yer neck getting back onto the boat after a few beers. I suppose we could have the argument that liveaboards should not be allowed on the cut (have not had that one for a few years 😀) but I suspect leisure boaters and hire boaters need to step on and off their boats too (and have a few beers).

Sometimes ring spacing and other constraints dictate that I moor with the ropes running "inward" rather than "outward" and I do this as a last resort because it is such a trip hazard.

 

..................Dave

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1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Maybe we cannot solve the 'problem', there are (probably) about 100 active members on the forum out of 30.000+ boats on C&RT waters but we can mitigate the effects that you are worried about.

 

There were lengthy discussions about 'mooring up properly' on a recent thread and I do believe that whilst not the answer to getting boats to slow down, is certainly the answer to being 'dragged & banged about' and potentially pulling pins out.

 

The use of bow and stern lines at the correct angles, held in place with 'crossed pins' will take some moving.

The use of Spring-Lines, at the correct angles, held in place with 'crossed pins' will ensure you boat is 'fixed in place'.

 

The bow and stern lines stop the bow or stern swinging outwards, whilst the Spring lines stop it moving forwards or backwards

 

image.png.7bd105c6d0e1b4c4242621fc201a1c57.png

The Thames: Hermitage Community Moorings | Wanderlust

 

 

Crossed pins :

 

 

Month: April 2019 - Clockwise Words

 

 

 

I thought I would add one more

DSCF4111small.jpg

  • Haha 3

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3 minutes ago, dmr said:

and another thing.....

narrowboats are just not designed for springs, its ok for dumpers or leisure boats left unattended on moorings but for liveaboards they are a danger, they run right past where you step on and off the boat, you're likely to trip and break yer neck getting back onto the boat after a few beers. I suppose we could have the argument that liveaboards should not be allowed on the cut (have not had that one for a few years 😀) but I suspect leisure boaters and hire boaters need to step on and off their boats too (and have a few beers).

Sometimes ring spacing and other constraints dictate that I moor with the ropes running "inward" rather than "outward" and I do this as a last resort because it is such a trip hazard.

 

..................Dave

Long session with a  skipping rope like a boxer is useful for practising jumping over ropes.

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I think this summer has been busier than usual, with more delays at locks etc, so some hire boats have probably been caught out and need to make up time.

 

If the main intention is to avoid pins pulling out, does that mean it is okay to not slow down for boats moored on rings/bollards? 🙂

 

 

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Just now, ditchcrawler said:

I thought I would add one more

DSCF4111small.jpg

 

Heh.  The only thing that could make that worse would be if it was the centreline.

 

The artistic macramé is a nice touch though.

 

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48 minutes ago, Rob-M said:

I had a pin pull out yesterday as I was mooring in Braunston, the passing boat was a deep drafted old working boat that was on tick over but as he sucked all the water out the pin pulled out the soft bank. At that point I hadn't tied the back end or put a second pin through the loop to stop it pulling out.  Once tied properly we didn't have any issues.

My speed varies according to how they are moored.  Boats on rings or chains allow me to pass faster than ones on pins.

 

If I see someone in the process of tieing up I am nearly stationary.  On the other hand, I expect 3/4 mile of offside linear moorings to have had plenty of notice to tie up like a supertanker.

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18 minutes ago, dmr said:

and another thing.....

narrowboats are just not designed for springs, its ok for dumpers or leisure boats left unattended on moorings but for liveaboards they are a danger, they run right past where you step on and off the boat, you're likely to trip and break yer neck getting back onto the boat after a few beers. I suppose we could have the argument that liveaboards should not be allowed on the cut (have not had that one for a few years 😀) but I suspect leisure boaters and hire boaters need to step on and off their boats too (and have a few beers).

Sometimes ring spacing and other constraints dictate that I moor with the ropes running "inward" rather than "outward" and I do this as a last resort because it is such a trip hazard.

 

..................Dave

we could ban beer?

  • Horror 1

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18 minutes ago, dmr said:

and another thing.....

narrowboats are just not designed for springs, its ok for dumpers or leisure boats left unattended on moorings but for liveaboards they are a danger, they run right past where you step on and off the boat, you're likely to trip and break yer neck getting back onto the boat after a few beers😀

 

 

You could have attachment points for springs fitted just forward of the back of the cabin and behind the cabin front, so you can use springs like this.

V5HDY2neOGiEhfmO0yB4OVmc9mYl2eEa2Lragofv

 

Then you can trip over them as you walk along the gunwale past the cabin!

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12 minutes ago, Cheese said:

I think this summer has been busier than usual, with more delays at locks etc, so some hire boats have probably been caught out and need to make up time.

 

If the main intention is to avoid pins pulling out, does that mean it is okay to not slow down for boats moored on rings/bollards? 🙂

 

 

I don't get too bothered personally by speeders.  But if I do slightly, it's when I'm on pins.  When I'm on bollards/rings/armco I generally CGAF how fast people go.

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1 minute ago, doratheexplorer said:

we could ban beer?

 

I think you will get more support for the not slowing down proposal!

  • Happy 1

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