Shall we all stop slowing for moored boats?

[bizzard]

Ground anchors or Norfolk Broads Rond anchors are the biz, ''Although canal boater would probably call them Wrong anchors'', won't pull out, they'd rather yank half the bank away than pull out.

[Naughty Cal]

Just now, bizzard said:

Ground anchors or Norfolk Broads Rond anchors are the biz, ''Although canal boater would probably call them Wrong anchors'', won't pull out, they'd rather yank half the bank away than pull out.

We do like the rhond anchors. They are far better then the pins so often used on the canals.

[TheBiscuits]

Just now, bizzard said:

Ground anchors or Norfolk Broads Rond anchors are the biz, ''Although canal boater would probably call them Wrong anchors'', won't pull out, they'd rather yank half the bank away than pull out.

 

We had a pair of small ones on the Nauticus, and they work very well with long enough lines to keep the angle correct.  Taking up an extra 100 feet of the visitor moorings makes you unpopular though.

[bizzard]

1 minute ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

We had a pair of small ones on the Nauticus, and they work very well with long enough lines to keep the angle correct.  Taking up an extra 100 feet of the visitor moorings makes you unpopular though.

If the fluke is curved a bit they'll cope ok with a bit of an upward angle.

[doratheexplorer]

20 minutes ago, nb Innisfree said:

In the wet spell of 2007 the towpath was so soft (K&A) we had a devil's own job keeping pins from pulling out, 6 or more pins wouldn't do it. I came to the conclusion that the only possible solution was to have a couple of  2 - 3' square chequer plates with a hole in the centre for a mooring pin and the plate underside having dozens of 3 - 4 " pins to spread the load. Spiked running shoe principle. 

Ground anchors.

13 minutes ago, Naughty Cal said:

We do like the rhond anchors. They are far better then the pins so often used on the canals.

But only really useful on soft ground.  I wouldn't fancy trying to bang them in on the Shroppie towpath.

[nb Innisfree]

13 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

What size of pins?  6 or 8 "normal" 18-inch pins won't hold as well as a couple of 3 feet long ones, especially if you cross them.

 

Having said that, there are places when the ground is sometimes soft enough that you stab the pins in and they just sink in a couple of feet on their own without the hammer - that's rarely a good place to moor!

 

 

 

Yes you could push long pins in by hand. Exceptional wet weather, we had to wait a few weeks before venturing onto the Thames, when we did the high water mark left left by the flood was something to behold, prob 6' higher than normal. 

[TheBiscuits]

4 minutes ago, nb Innisfree said:

Yes you could push long pins in by hand. Exceptional wet weather, we had to wait a few weeks before venturing onto the Thames, when we did the high water mark left left by the flood was something to behold, prob 6' higher than normal. 

 

That's when scaffolding starts coming in handy as pins!

[nicknorman]

2 hours ago, Tonka said:

Having had to take a baby to hospital who got scalded by a kettle coming off of the hob because of a speeding boater going pass a moored boat. I always slow down. But no doubt most of the numpties who speed past boats would probably blame the hob design.

I would question why there was a baby underneath a kettle full of boiling water.
But that aside, our boat has never been subject to violent motion like that when tied up, with or without boiling kettles or babies. It seems to me that such violent motion can only occur with slack lines whereby the boat has a chance to pick up speed before the line pulls tight. If the lines are tight at the outset, how can this possibly happen?

[cuthound]

3 hours ago, JamesFrance said:

This will be the other category of boaters who are often not mentioned in these discussions, the share owner who is also subject to a return date so may feel the need to press on.   Most of these look like private boats but can usually be spotted, being semi trrad with simple signwriting.

 

The usual giveaway for a shareboat is the lack of a signwritten  "home port".

[doratheexplorer]

3 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

I would question why there was a baby underneath a kettle full of boiling water.
But that aside, our boat has never been subject to violent motion like that when tied up, with or without boiling kettles or babies. It seems to me that such violent motion can only occur with slack lines whereby the boat has a chance to pick up speed before the line pulls tight. If the lines are tight at the outset, how can this possibly happen?

Sometimes lines need to be slack where levels are prone to change.  There are designated visitor moorings on some surprisingly short pounds.

[cuthound]

3 hours ago, Loddon said:

I have added an extra cleat on Loddon as in the picture, I find myself using it more than the T-stud and its excellent for adding springs.

 

My boat has dollies there. Very useful.

[nicknorman]

2 hours ago, rustynewbery said:

Sadly we're in the age of entitlement where "me me me" is all that matters to many and the consequences of peoples' actions do not even come into it. Back in April there was renewed optimism that coming through the pandemic would make us more aware of our infallibilities and care for our fellow beings.  Add this to the ever increasing list of U turns.

 

But long before any of this, the waterways have slowly declined in etiquette over the years, though there are some of us who strive to uphold the old ways. Long may that continue.

So who are the entitled ones?

 

The ones who feel entitled to go faster past moored boats than the moorers would like, because they are important and on a schedule and anyway the stupid moorers should tie their boats up properly.

 

Or

 

The ones who feel entitled to tie their boats up carelessly and stupidly and expect that others be not allowed to cause any water motion by having the temerity to go past at more than 0.5mph. Or at all, even.

[TheBiscuits]

1 minute ago, cuthound said:

 

The usual giveaway for a shareboat is the lack of a signwritten  "home port".

 

What "home port" should I put on the side of my (non-share) boat then?  It's a boat without a home mooring ...

[doratheexplorer]

Just now, nicknorman said:

So who are the entitled ones?

 

The ones who feel entitled to go faster past moored boats than the moorers would like, because they are important and on a schedule and anyway the stupid moorers should tie their boats up properly.

 

Or

 

The ones who feel entitled to tie their boats up carelessly and stupidly and expect that others be not allowed to cause any water motion by having the temerity to go past at more than 0.5mph. Or at all, even.

 

Or the ones who feel entitled to moan about it all online?

[Alan de Enfield]

1 hour ago, blackrose said:

So this method should only used on Springers, right? ☺️

 

 

I think it means that you actually use 'Springers' instead of pins (both have about the same amount of steel in them but the Springers are a more irregular shape and hold better).

[doratheexplorer]

3 minutes ago, cuthound said:

 

The usual giveaway for a shareboat is the lack of a signwritten  "home port".

My boat has no signwritten home port.  I do have a couple of old mops on the roof though.

[TheBiscuits]

1 minute ago, Alan de Enfield said:

I think it means that you actually use 'Springers' instead of pins (both have about the same amount of steel in them but the Springers are a more irregular shape and hold better).

 

I'm not sure some of the older ones could take being hit with a hammer though.  Well, not more than once anyway!

[Tonka]

3 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

I would question why there was a baby underneath a kettle full of boiling water.
But that aside, our boat has never been subject to violent motion like that when tied up, with or without boiling kettles or babies. It seems to me that such violent motion can only occur with slack lines whereby the boat has a chance to pick up speed before the line pulls tight. If the lines are tight at the outset, how can this possibly happen?

Firstly you have assumed it was a narrowboat. It was a Dawncraft Dandy. Secondly it was not my boat so I do not know why the baby was near the hob but on small plastic boats the hob is often near the bunk. Thirdly I was not the speeding boat but moored nearby with a car and was able to take the baby to hospital immediately. All I can say it was not a sight I would like to repeat. 

[nicknorman]

5 minutes ago, doratheexplorer said:

Sometimes lines need to be slack where levels are prone to change.  There are designated visitor moorings on some surprisingly short pounds.

This is where spring lines come in. The longer the line, the less the tension is affected by level changes. Which is why yachties use them (tidal waters etc). However most of the time the level of the boat isn’t going to change much - if the water level drops a bit, the boat hits the bottom and doesn’t then sink any further!

3 minutes ago, doratheexplorer said:

 

Or the ones who feel entitled to moan about it all online?

Don’t be so hard on yourself, it is an interesting (if slightly repetitive) discussion.

Edited September 3, 2020 by nicknorman

[cuthound]

6 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

What "home port" should I put on the side of my (non-share) boat then?  It's a boat without a home mooring ...

 

"No Fixed Abode?" ?

[IanD]

After 2 weeks doing the Leicester ring, my observation is that the vast majority of the boats passing "too fast" were privately owned, and the worst culprits were the shiniest boats. Not that this particularly bothered me because I was moored up securely, but it shows who takes notice of the "slow past moored boats" request and who doesn't. Most hire boats weren't as bad, but a couple of numpties went past like they were towing a waterskier.

 

Given that I normally slowed right down several lengths before moored boats, I only got smiles and waves all holiday. Except for one grumpy boater on the River Soar in central Leicester who shouted at me for daring to accelerate while passing him (having slowed down for a line of moored boats, he was the last one), in spite of the fact that the river was maybe 50' wide at this point and I was 30' away from him, so even at normal cruising speed his boat probably wouldn't have moved at all. Maybe shouting at boats is the high point of his day...

[TheBiscuits]

2 minutes ago, cuthound said:

 

"No Fixed Abode?" ?

 

That's a different boat ....

 

Nofe Ixta Boad Built by Liverpool Boat Company - Length : 17.8 metres ( 58 feet 5 inches ) - Beam : 2.1 metres ( 6 feet 11 inches ) - Draft : 0.6 metres ( 2 feet ). Metal hull N/A Electric power of 10 HP. Registered with Canal & River Trust number 517449 as an Electric Motor Boat.  ( Last updated on Wednesday 22nd May 2013 )

[Bee]

What I do. (Not necessarily right but it works for me.) Bash a pin in, tie one end of boat to it. Bash another pin in, tie other end to it,  ropes should obviously not be at 90 degrees to the boat. Bash another pin in somewhere that  makes a lovely equilateral triangle when you run a rope to it from either the front or the back. You do not need a protractor or tape measure for this. Put kettle on. If you wish you can then use every bit of rope on the boat to tie to yet more pins, thistles, piling and sticks, don't forget the centre line, tie that to an overhanging tree but all those extra ropes will not make enough difference to bother with.

[nicknorman]

22 minutes ago, Tonka said:

Firstly you have assumed it was a narrowboat. It was a Dawncraft Dandy. Secondly it was not my boat so I do not know why the baby was near the hob but on small plastic boats the hob is often near the bunk. Thirdly I was not the speeding boat but moored nearby with a car and was able to take the baby to hospital immediately. All I can say it was not a sight I would like to repeat. 

I don’t think it makes much difference whether it was a Dawncraft or a narrowboat in terms of the issue about excessive motion, except that perhaps a Dawncraft can be brought to a halt more rapidly (ie greater acceleration) when the lines pull tight. But the same applies - that only happens if the lines are slack in the first place.

 

No from you writing style I did not think it was your boat. It was a rhetorical question.

 

Obviously I wasn’t there but at first sight it seems as though the boat occupiers made two mistakes, they had their child near the stove with boiling water on, and they had slack lines. I am sure it was very unpleasant but I suspect the fault lies mostly with the boat occupier, not with anyone else. Everyone likes to blame someone else when things go wrong, but sometimes there is no alternative than it being ones own fault despite current culture insisting that accidents are always someone else’s fault and the world must be an intrinsically safe place.

7 minutes ago, Bee said:

What I do. (Not necessarily right but it works for me.) Bash a pin in, tie one end of boat to it. Bash another pin in, tie other end to it,  ropes should obviously not be at 90 degrees to the boat. Bash another pin in somewhere that  makes a lovely equilateral triangle when you run a rope to it from either the front or the back. You do not need a protractor or tape measure for this. Put kettle on. If you wish you can then use every bit of rope on the boat to tie to yet more pins, thistles, piling and sticks, don't forget the centre line, tie that to an overhanging tree but all those extra ropes will not make enough difference to bother with.

Your mistake is to use a kettle rather than an open pan brim full with boiling water, thus giving you less excuse to scream “SLOW DOWN” at passing boats.

Edited September 3, 2020 by nicknorman

[pearley]

27 minutes ago, cuthound said:

 

The usual giveaway for a shareboat is the lack of a signwritten  "home port".

Whilst it is true that few, if any, shareboats have their mooring name or home port written, there are many others that don't either. Looking out of the window at the 2 on permanent moorings opposite us, only 1 has the location on it. So 50% do/don't. If you add us in the 66.6% don't!

And, when I've met boats with the name of a place I know well and have asked how "so and so" they invariably reply they don't know. The name was ok n the boat when they bought it.