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Undoing hopper window screws


Blazeaway
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I have a small leak around one of my windows and am planning on taking the whole window out to reseal it.

 

Looking at the screws they could well be a bit of bu%%er to get out.

 

I guess that as these windows are quite common others may have encountered issues when taking them out.

 

Any hints and tips gratefully recieved.

 

 

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I used a Dremel loo0k alike to cut ordinary slots in the head using a pair of the abrasive discs on a single arbour. Then drove an ordinary screwdriver into the slot. All came out. Before I did that I tried all the usual tricks to free them without success. I think it was a combination of the heat and vibrations from the discs and the hammering of the screwdriver. I made sure the screwdriver had a hexagon on the shank for a ring spanner to get extra leverage.

 

Replaced screws with stainless steel.

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15 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

I usually drill those type out and put slightly bigger self tappers in of stainless steel on replacement. You could also drill them out and tap the steel for stainless screws. 

Nice, like that idea, how do you get the drill started dead centre to prevent the bit wandering off ?

4 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

I used a Dremel loo0k alike to cut ordinary slots in the head using a pair of the abrasive discs on a single arbour. Then drove an ordinary screwdriver into the slot. All came out. Before I did that I tried all the usual tricks to free them without success. I think it was a combination of the heat and vibrations from the discs and the hammering of the screwdriver. I made sure the screwdriver had a hexagon on the shank for a ring spanner to get extra leverage.

 

Replaced screws with stainless steel.

That also looks a good option but maybe more time consuming and risk of damage to the window frame with slippage of the cutting disk. Did you cause any damage on yours ?

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6 minutes ago, Blazeaway said:

how do you get the drill started dead centre to prevent the bit wandering off ?

It’ll do that all by itself by sitting in the centre of the cross. I’d start off with a 2mm or 3mm drill but let’s see what @mrsmelly has to say :)

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I assume you are all talking about self tappers into the steel plate of the cabin side. My similar windows are fixed with woodscrews which pass through the steel plate into the timber window liners. Several of the screwheads are rusty and have stained the ( non-coloured) aluminium window surround. I am going to remove the screws, clean up the aluminium then replace the screws with stainless as a near colour match to the aluminium.

The ones I have removed so far have come out easily.

Edited by David Mack
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14 minutes ago, Blazeaway said:

Nice, like that idea, how do you get the drill started dead centre to prevent the bit wandering off ?

That also looks a good option but maybe more time consuming and risk of damage to the window frame with slippage of the cutting disk. Did you cause any damage on yours ?

Not as time consuming as the other methods I tried. Yes I did put a small scratch on a few of the raw aluminium frames but nowhere near as many as I thought I would. You can brace one hand (holding the tool body) against the cabin side and use your other hand to control the cut. Very little slippage, normally the damaged was caused by trying to cut too deep.

 

My screws went right through the cabin side and into the internal wooden frame and most were stuck solid.

 

 

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17 minutes ago, WotEver said:

It’ll do that all by itself by sitting in the centre of the cross. I’d start off with a 2mm or 3mm drill but let’s see what @mrsmelly has to say :)

I agree entirely ? however as others have said some screw through holes in the steel and in to wood battens inside whilst others are either tapped into the cabin or indeed self tappers. Whatever they end up being I would refit with stainless. 

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25 minutes ago, WotEver said:

It’ll do that all by itself by sitting in the centre of the cross. I’d start off with a 2mm or 3mm drill but let’s see what @mrsmelly has to say :)

If you use the drill @Thinkingallowed is playing with you can guarantee no scratches on the window frames ...

 

https://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?/topic/105115-easter-on-the-thames-from-windsor/&do=findComment&comment=2427943

 

  • Haha 1
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I've had recent problems with brass screws corroded stuck in my windows.  I've found that I can loosen them enough to use a screwdriver by hitting them quite firmly using a flat punch.  It seems to break the corrosion.  Then wiggle them both ways with a screwdriver and gradually work them out. 

 

Yours look like Posidrive heads. Make sure you have a good, preferably new Posidrive screwdriver,  NOT a Phillips one. 

 

Richard 

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6 hours ago, Blazeaway said:

I have a small leak around one of my windows and am planning on taking the whole window out to reseal it.

 

Looking at the screws they could well be a bit of bu%%er to get out.

 

I guess that as these windows are quite common others may have encountered issues when taking them out.

 

Any hints and tips gratefully recieved.

 

 

20200301_143212.jpg

20200301_143156.jpg

This type of screw extractor work well on posidrive & phillips screws.  They will grip damaged screws where a normal screwdriver won't.  If you resort to drilling the screws out bear in mind that most modern screws are hardened and drilling can be difficult. Self tappers are always hardened.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/6Pcs-Damaged-screw-extractor-speed-out-drill-bits-broken-bolt-remover-toolO-lq/123960628344?hash=item1cdca11478:g:3lQAAOSwbOFdeFK9

Edited by Flyboy
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4 hours ago, Ryeland said:

Yours look like Posidrive heads. Make sure you have a good, preferably new Posidrive screwdriver,  NOT a Phillips one. 

In the middle of Lidl I saw a massive selection of screwdivers the other day. Two or three rows of them. Plus a selection of bits and a bit holder. Not a single posidriv among them. 

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Thank you to you all. Really useful info.

 

I will start off with giving them a soak in "plus gas" then try getting them out with appropriate quality bits. If thats a no go then go for the extractor or drill out and finally will refit with stainless screws.

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Another trick to loosen an otherwise tight screw is to give it a jerk in the direction of TIGHTENING it. This often cracks the corrosion (or gunk) making it easier to loosen in the correct direction without damaging the head. However a nice new well-fitting screwdriver is a must.

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I doubt that they are wood screws into timber inside, they look like cheap self tappers.

Drilling hard self tappers is impossible. Try a new screwdriver, correct bit looks to be Pozidrive #2, give it a good thwack first into the head recess.

Else knock them about sideways with a cold chisel to loosen them.

As a last resort Dremel a slot or grind heads off completely.

 

Drill and tap the steel, if the holes are too big swapping the windows around  if they are similar may give you places to re-drill and tap.

Replace with dome head allen or star drive stainless machine screws, the bigger head will cover any minor damage to the alloy frame and they are easier to get out later.

Use sealing tape when refitting to cleaned surfaces. If you must use mastic, Sikaflex non setting and don't fully tighten till a week later.

PU18 will seal them for ever but you will never get them out again in one piece.

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You can also get screwdriver tips that are diamond impregnated specifically for removing corroded screws. For the life me I can't be sure where I saw them but a company called Orbital Fasteners would be a goòd place to start looking. Sorry but I'm pushed for time so can't search on your behalf.

 

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3 hours ago, Bod said:

 

Worth investing in a pair of these pliers.

http://engineertool.wixsite.com/engineerintl/pz22

Their jaws have serrations in different directions than "normal" pliers, and will grip and turn screw heads, end on, which normal ones won't.

 

Bod

Looks good, but I couldn't see a price or how to buy on that link.

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I've had success using impact drivers for removing stubborn screws (and bolts) - not in window frames though. They can be expensive for a one off use, I was lucky a friend has one. Make sure to use the correct bit and a good quality one. I agree it does look like PZ#2 would be correct.

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