dor Posted December 20, 2019 Report Share Posted December 20, 2019 (edited) The water authorities have been getting twitchy about all these hosepipes being used on the canals and the potential risk of contamination of the water supply. It is now normal to have check valves in taps used to fill water tanks, but the water authorities are proposing more restrictions. Among their suggestions are that hosepipes must not be laid on the ground or allowed to come into contact with canal water (risk of contaminants penetrating the plastic), hoses should be completely empties after filling, and the hose reel stored inside a plastic bag. Plenty of other restrictions, particularly for marina and CRT supplies, e.g. requiring a ball cock arrangement between supply and tap. All to reduce to near zero the possibility of anything in your hose pipe entering the supply system (which could occur if there was a failure in the supply which reduced the supply pressure at the tap to zero). Best-Practice-Marine-Water-Facilities Some of the content: The agreed IBP for boat owners states; When boats are ready to fill up their on-board cold water storage tanks from a designated drinking water filling point, or mains water standpipe via a hose pipe, the end user must follow this simple Standard Operating Procedure (SOP) 1. Ensure that you only use your dedicated wholesome water hose pipe when connecting to the water delivery device. 2. Moor the boat so that you have adequate access to the drinking water delivery system. 3. Ensure the hose is safely secured to the drinking water filling point on board the boat. 4. Do not allow the hose run to be in direct contact with any canal, river, lake, or other water courses, as allowing it to be submerged can lead to permeation of the hose. Permeation causes contamination of the mains water drinking supply which passes through the hose to fill the on-board cold-water storage tank(s). This poses a serious risk to public health and to those persons consuming the water downstream of the standpipe. 5. Do not allow the hose to lie in puddles. 6. Do not allow the hose to lie on the ground as this can also contain contaminates and encourage ingress. 7. Once the filling process has been completed, turn off the hose union tap, then physically disconnect and remove the hose. Once the hose has been disconnected, completely empty the hose of any excess water and stow the hose away in a re-sealable bag to prevent ingress and contamination from outside sources. 8. At no time shall a hose be left as a permanent connection due to its permeable nature. Such action can lead to a potential contamination risk and may result in legal action and/or possible criminal prosecution. When washing off boats with a hose pipe also have a trigger gun on the end of the hose to ensure that the hose turns off the flow when released. Edited December 20, 2019 by dor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan de Enfield Posted December 20, 2019 Report Share Posted December 20, 2019 13 minutes ago, dor said: The water authorities have been getting twitchy about all these hosepipes being used on the canals and the potential risk of contamination of the water supply. It is now normal to have check valves in taps used to fill water tanks, but the water authorities are proposing more restrictions. I have been 'banging on about this for years but just accused of scaremongering. I have this document but as it is a Pdf I cannot post it due to this forum software restricting Pdfs. Examples of a couple of pages : Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackrose Posted December 20, 2019 Report Share Posted December 20, 2019 (edited) So what's the difference between hoses used by boaters and hoses used by farmers or people with gardens who may have animals defacating outside? Also, are there any documented cases of contamination of the mains water supply from a boater's hose? I'm always pretty cautious about using shared hoses for filling my water tank because you never know what some other boaters have been doing with them - rinsing out a pump out, etc. Edited December 20, 2019 by blackrose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AWETHEAYET Posted December 20, 2019 Report Share Posted December 20, 2019 I would have thought that if all supply systems were fitted with non-return valves, then what goes in the boat is up to us. If someone chooses to trail their pipe through the mud, and often this can not be avoided, then this is their choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nb Innisfree Posted December 20, 2019 Report Share Posted December 20, 2019 Helium balloons. Just now, nb Innisfree said: Helium balloons. Over to Professor Bizzard. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackrose Posted December 20, 2019 Report Share Posted December 20, 2019 6 minutes ago, AWETHEAYET said: I would have thought that if all supply systems were fitted with non-return valves, then what goes in the boat is up to us. If someone chooses to trail their pipe through the mud, and often this can not be avoided, then this is their choice. Yes, if the risk is so great then why don't they just fit all vulnerable supply outlets with NRVs. You can't regulate the behaviour of everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchcrawler Posted December 20, 2019 Report Share Posted December 20, 2019 3 minutes ago, blackrose said: Yes, if the risk is so great then why don't they just fit all vulnerable supply outlets with NRVs. You can't regulate the behaviour of everyone. I thought they did, double check valves at that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan de Enfield Posted December 20, 2019 Report Share Posted December 20, 2019 (edited) 5 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said: I thought they did, double check valves at that. The law says that they must be fitted : Under health and safety legislation, marina operators must ensure that employees and visitors to their premises are not put at risk, and berth holders and boat users visiting marinas also have a responsibility to ensure they do not create health and safety risks. This legal duty is reinforced by the Water Industry Acts and the Water Fittings Regulations (or equivalent legislation in Scotland and Northern Ireland), which require marina operators and users to ensure that water supplies within the premises are adequately safeguarded against contamination. Operators and users also have responsibility for ensuring that water fittings are installed and maintained in compliance with the regulations. The Water Supplier has the power to prosecute those who infringe the regulations, and can disconnect supplies that pose a serious risk to health. A water supplier may take action to recover from marina operators the costs incurred in responding to a water contamination incident, which can be significant. 5. Backflow Prevention The seriousness of the risk of contamination by backflow is assessed using one of five fluid categories. Examples of these include: Fluid category 5: contaminants, which are a serious health risk. Fluid containing pathogenic organisms, radioactive or very toxic substances. Fluid category 4: contaminants with a significant health hazard. Fluid containing toxic substances including chemicals, carcinogenic substances, pesticides and environmental organisms of potential health significance. Fluid category 1: wholesome drinking water, as supplied by the Water Supplier. The degree of backflow risk is dependent on local circumstances. Risk assessments, if not carried out by your local water supplier, should be confirmed by it.The regulations require that plumbing systems, fittings and appliances are protected by suitable backflow prevention devices rated to provide protection to at least the same fluid category as indicated by the risk assessment. The Water Regulations Guide provides information on the fluid category rating of different types of backflow device. WRAS Edited December 20, 2019 by Alan de Enfield Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AWETHEAYET Posted December 20, 2019 Report Share Posted December 20, 2019 2 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said: I thought they did, double check valves at that. So where do you think they are going with this one? We pay extra to fill up if we can not follow the unatainable guide lines? Surely through licience people are paying for water and should not be expected to pay extra. or am I missing something Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victor Vectis Posted December 20, 2019 Report Share Posted December 20, 2019 What a load of old bolllox. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackrose Posted December 20, 2019 Report Share Posted December 20, 2019 5 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said: The law says that they must be fitted : So perhaps I'm being thick but if NRVs are fitted by law, what's the issue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AWETHEAYET Posted December 20, 2019 Report Share Posted December 20, 2019 1 minute ago, Victor Vectis said: What a load of old bolllox. Cheers Victor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WotEver Posted December 20, 2019 Report Share Posted December 20, 2019 12 minutes ago, blackrose said: So perhaps I'm being thick but if NRVs are fitted by law, what's the issue? If you’re being thick then I’m every bit as thick myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AWETHEAYET Posted December 20, 2019 Report Share Posted December 20, 2019 4 minutes ago, WotEver said: If you’re being thick then I’m every bit as thick myself. Do you know why NRV valves are fitted? I'm not suggesting by this question you are thick. I may be more thick than you think you are in suggesting the following "pressure of water is maintained by the capacity of the pumps providing it" "if pumps are used to take water from the supply outstrip the supply then they will suck water back up the system" Hence the need for non return valves. I'm sure in reality its some what more complicated than this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
36national Posted December 20, 2019 Report Share Posted December 20, 2019 Lifes too short. At least I hope mine will be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AWETHEAYET Posted December 20, 2019 Report Share Posted December 20, 2019 Additional comment Belt and bracers or doudle redundancy is why they should be two Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheshire cat Posted December 20, 2019 Report Share Posted December 20, 2019 Presumably it was this kind of sabre rattling that started C&RT changing all the waterpoints to those stainless ones and withdrawing the hoses from Elsan points Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AWETHEAYET Posted December 20, 2019 Report Share Posted December 20, 2019 6 minutes ago, Cheshire cat said: Presumably it was this kind of sabre rattling that started C&RT changing all the waterpoints to those stainless ones and withdrawing the hoses from Elsan points As the OP said it is "best practice" CRT have legal responsibliy and are fully aware and conforming (in the main) to the current laws. We has end users, and payers for water, should expect safe supply and not polute others users. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WotEver Posted December 21, 2019 Report Share Posted December 21, 2019 7 hours ago, AWETHEAYET said: Do you know why NRV valves are fitted? Yes, so that the system can’t be back-fed, potentially polluting the supply. Every outside tap you buy from B&Q has had one for years. Then the tap connectors from the likes of Hoselock also have an NRV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boater Sam Posted December 21, 2019 Report Share Posted December 21, 2019 Nothing new at all, its all been a requirement for a long time. Double check valves. Supply break tanks would lead to very low pressures and long filling times,,,,,, giving more time for permeation and contamination. And storage tanks need periodic sterilization to combat Legionella. I see that there is no mention of food quality approved hoses being used rather than garden hosepipes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Mack Posted December 21, 2019 Report Share Posted December 21, 2019 This is "best practice" not "rules". I'm sure most water point taps are already fitted with double check valves, and most boaters already follow reasonable practices to keep their hoses clean etc. Those who don't are only endangering their own health and there is virtually no risk of contaminating the public water supply. And how are you supposed to run your hose from the tap to the boat without it lying on the ground? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrsmelly Posted December 21, 2019 Report Share Posted December 21, 2019 10 hours ago, Victor Vectis said: What a load of old bolllox. The most sensible post so far. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan de Enfield Posted December 21, 2019 Report Share Posted December 21, 2019 27 minutes ago, David Mack said: This is "best practice" not "rules". It is legal requirement ("The Law") The Water Supply (Water Fittings) Regulations and Water Supply (Water Fittings) (Scotland) Byelaws, play an important role in protecting public health, safeguarding water supplies and promoting the efficient use of water within customers’ premises across the UK. They set legal requirements for the design, installation, operation and maintenance of plumbing systems, water fittings and water-using appliances. They have a specific purpose to prevent misuse, waste, undue consumption or erroneous measurement of water and, most importantly, to prevent contamination of drinking water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athy Posted December 21, 2019 Report Share Posted December 21, 2019 11 hours ago, dor said: water delivery device. Or "tap" as it is known. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtB Posted December 21, 2019 Report Share Posted December 21, 2019 8 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said: It is legal requirement ("The Law") Not according to the OP. 11 hours ago, dor said: Best-Practice-Marine-Water-Facilities Some of the content: I'll be impressed if you can quote a water regulation preventing a hose pipe being used if it is touching the ground, for example. It's just advice, nothing more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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