Advice needed please BROKEN down

[rustydiver]

We was happily pottering along on the Gloucester sharpness canal and all off a sudden the engine stops running. Tried to start but stops quickly. 
just before it makes a sound like I’ve hit an object. Clanking sound. 
Ive checked the prop can’t feel anything on it. 
In neutral the prop won’t turn its solid.

but the engine turns by hand I can see the rockers moving when looking in the oil filler. 
it’s getting dark and it’s peeing it down with rain so given up till tomorrow. 
Any ideas please.  

[Mike Tee]

Can you feel all round the prop, even down the bottom? Sounds like a lump of wood between the bottom of the prop and the skeg.

[dmr]

If the prop really is clear then it sounds like something pretty catastrophic has occurred inside the gearbox.

Do you have any couplings of any sort they could have broken up?

Does the engine run ok in neutral???

 

.............Dave

[steve hayes]

As Dave says does it run in neutral 

[rustydiver]

I was to afraid to try ?. 
but just did and it starts and ticks over all ok. 
I will have a good feel around the bottom of the prop and skeg tomorrow. 
so it’s either that or the gearbox buggered. 
thanks all. 

[steve hayes]

Input side of the gearbox should be ok if no horrible sounds ?

im going for the prop jammed ?

[Rebotco]

Hope its just a jammed prop.

Why do these things always happen when the weather is foul???

[rustydiver]

3 minutes ago, Rebotco said:

Hope its just a jammed prop.

Why do these things always happen when the weather is foul???

Foul is an understatement at the moment. ?? 

 

[dmr]

I reckon a prop jam, it can be a long way to get yer hand to the bottom of the prop, and the water is starting to get a bit cold.

 

You can sometimes shift stuff by a very quick/brief engagement of reverse, that's how I got the tyre off the prop in Wigan, but its a bit brutal with a small risk of damage.

 

.............Dave

[ditchcrawler]

17 minutes ago, steve hayes said:

Input side of the gearbox should be ok if no horrible sounds ?

im going for the prop jammed ?

Same here, I have had a lump of wood more than once, the water down there is normally quite clear, you need to check right down to the bottom of the prop on the skeg 

[rustydiver]

4 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

Same here, I have had a lump of wood more than once, the water down there is normally quite clear, you need to check right down to the bottom of the prop on the skeg 

Unfortunately the water is quite merky now can just see to the centre of the prop. I will get my arm in there tomorrow and have a good feel around lower down.  

[MtB]

I too was about to suggest starting the engine then engaging astern. 

 

Hopefully it will unjam the blade. Alternatively it will just tall the engine. Let us know which! 

 

 

[rustydiver]

Thanks all. 
I shall report back tomorrow. 
I think it’s just this area of the canal. 
move broken down here before. Overheated. And the wife has fallen in here to. ??

[gbclive]

24 minutes ago, Rebotco said:

Why do these things always happen when the weather is foul???

For the same reason they happen on a Friday evening?

Sorry, that’s not helpful is it?

Good luck though.

[nb celestine]

Evening, it's a few years since I've posted on here, and I've sold my boat now but always browse and this problem rings a bell with me.

  About 2012 I was, I think on the Wenford Arm crawling towards the end, when my engine sounded like I'd cruised over a Tesco trolley.  An awful grinding metallic noise so I shut the engine off and checked the prop. Nothing. Came on Canalworld for advice. Told to check around the Skeg. Nothing. I informed everyone that I couldn't even turn the prop shaft in neutral with a pair of stilsons. Told that the gearbox was then the likely cause. So after a while I started pumping more and more grease into the stern gland and gradually, using the stilsons, it freed itself. 

   I was told by another boater, who had a similar problem that he had a lot of grit between his prop and stern tube.

   Worth a go I suppose before the gearbox gets dismantled.

[wiltshirewonderer]

30 minutes ago, nb celestine said:

Evening, it's a few years since I've posted on here, and I've sold my boat now but always browse and this problem rings a bell with me.

  About 2012 I was, I think on the Wenford Arm crawling towards the end, when my engine sounded like I'd cruised over a Tesco trolley.  An awful grinding metallic noise so I shut the engine off and checked the prop. Nothing. Came on Canalworld for advice. Told to check around the Skeg. Nothing. I informed everyone that I couldn't even turn the prop shaft in neutral with a pair of stilsons. Told that the gearbox was then the likely cause. So after a while I started pumping more and more grease into the stern gland and gradually, using the stilsons, it freed itself. 

   I was told by another boater, who had a similar problem that he had a lot of grit between his prop and stern tube.

   Worth a go I suppose before the gearbox gets dismantled.

Not heard of that one before - thank you, that might come in handy to know one day.

[Laurie Booth]

Could it be the drive plate?

 

[WotEver]

8 minutes ago, Laurie.Booth said:

Could it be the drive plate?

Not if it’s fine in neutral, nope. 

[cougie]

4 hours ago, rustydiver said:

 And the wife has fallen in here to. ??

Have you seen her since the problems started ? I think we may know what's blocking your prop. 

[Laurie Booth]

1 hour ago, WotEver said:

Not if it’s fine in neutral, nope. 

OK

 

[zenataomm]

Something is stopping the prop shaft.

Unless it's binding in the stern gland or a plummer bearing, it's got to be one end or the other.

The propeller is stopping it from turning because it is blocked by an underwater obstruction like a piece of 2X4 timber between a blade tip and uxter plate.

Or:

Drive train failure like Reduction Box or Gearbox.

 

Things tend to come off props easier the way they went on, so trying to run the engine is reverse is worth a try.

A more gentle way would be, if your engine has hand start, put it into reverse with the decompressors on and use the hand start to turn the whole engine, gear box etc, prop shaft and prop backwards.  If you feel movement but it doesn't clear, then keep turning the engine while somebody else changes gear backwards and forwards.

If you don't have hand start place in neutral and turn the prop shaft by hand which is not easy.

You might try a mooring pin as a lever across bolt heads or between couplings.

If you can turn the prop shaft like this then the prop/gland/plummer blocks aren't jammed.  Look to the drive train.

If the prop shaft is locked up then it's time to examine under water. 

Between blade tips and skeg for hard lumps of massed weed, between blade tips and uxter.  Don't forget you may have a vertical support welded from the skeg up to the uxter plate to protect your stern gear against deforming due to cilling. The support would be positioned just aft of the prop and it doesn't take much jammed between the boss and support to stop things.

[dor]

48 minutes ago, zenataomm said:

 

Things tend to come off props easier the way they went on, so trying to run the engine is reverse is worth a try.

A more gentle way would be, if your engine has hand start, put it into reverse with the decompressors on and use the hand start to turn the whole engine, gear box etc, prop shaft and prop backwards.  If you feel movement but it doesn't clear, then keep turning the engine while somebody else changes gear backwards and forwards.

 

I tried turning the engine on the starter with the gearbox in reverse when I had a tyre round the prop, but then realised that the gearbox was hydraulic (PRM150), so without oil pressure it doesn't engage!

Edited October 19, 2019 by dor

[Chewbacka]

Twice I have had an engine stall, once where a bit of tree was between the prop and weed hatch tunnel - that was quite a violent stop, the other was rope caught on a prop blade then tightened Itself onto the prop shaft, this time the engine slowed down and then stopped.

So I would suggest a trip down the weed hatch with a waterproof torch and ideally some cut resistant gloves in case something sharp is down there.

[rustydiver]

Thanks all. 
Been out this morning had had a look in the light of day and there rope tightly wrapped around it all removed now and it seems to go into and out of gear fine now. 
so will carry on with out journey to Gloucester. 
fingers crossed no lasting damage. 
thanks everyone again. 

[OldGoat]

40 minutes ago, rustydiver said:

Thanks all. 
Been out this morning had had a look in the light of day and there rope tightly wrapped around it all removed now and it seems to go into and out of gear fine now. 
so will carry on with out journey to Gloucester. 
fingers crossed no lasting damage. 
thanks everyone again. 

Hooray!

A satisfactory end to a long tale. Glad to see it's all fixed.