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It's very difficult for people new to boats. When they come on here with tales of woe about problems with boat they've just bought, the first question they're asked is "Did you get it surveyed before you bought it?" And if the answer is no they get duly criticised and chastised. Then when they come on here and tell us about a new boat that was surveyed but that problems emerged afterwards, they get told that surveys are worthless. They can't really win can they...

Here's Tommy who lives and works (ha!) on a fuel boat. His currency is gravy Bones.

WELL DONE! You have found a use for Towpath Talks!

There is ALWAYS something wrong with a boat. Usually due to the fact that it's a rusting tin box sitting permanently in a puddle, being rained on. Factor in another integral tin box that's been full of corrosive human waste products for ten years...

Why don't you advertise a few of them for sale on the forum?

Bile beans might be the solution

In my experience it takes longer to fit/refit a boat than anything in a house, things are not square, there is no space, every time you need to cut a piece of ply its in and out of the boat half a dozen times and there are pipes and wires to fit stuff around. That makes for bigger than expected bills.

Cannot argue with that - unfortunately due to the fact that the inland boating industry is unregulated yours is not an uncommon event - you will find exactly the same level of incompetence when you call out an 'engineer' to fix something (it doesn't matter if it is electrical or mechanical). Even the "AA of the waterways" - a company called RCR offer a very 'mixed' level of service, a common complaint about them is " sucking of teeth, a big intake of breath" and "you need a replacement engine", It just so happens that they have a sister company selling reconditioned engines, you pays your bill, get your nicely painted new engine fitted and away you go, your old engine is repainted and appears 'on their shelf' awaiting the next mug. Don't get me wrong, there are good tradesmen on the canal system but they are hard to find. When you do find one, look after him. You need to be able to get yourselves self sufficient for maintenance and repairs

Lawyers charge the hourly rate for a 25 year experienced professional, plus LadyG's extras. Then mostly have the work done by a trainee articled clerk. N

And, interestingly, 6.1 makes it clear, contrary to some boaters' assumptions, the boat has to continue to comply with BSS not just to hold a valid certificate. Hence, there is a liability to ensure that any modifications (or even breakdowns) are made/repaired to be compliant at any time CaRT care to check.

Courts will usually decide in favour of whoever has the most property, it's what most of law is about. Solicitors are about as useful as surveyors, but rather less competent, more expensive and bone idle. It takes a fortnight for a solicitor to write a letter and only then if you phone up every day. The state the courts are currently in, anyway, it'll be years before you get a case even started, by which time your nerves will be shredded and you won't care any more anyway. It's a shame stuff has gone wrong so soon, but at least it's getting sorted now rather than in a couple of years when you're somewhere in the middle of nowhere with no help to hand.

Yes. I have recollections of having to pick up bits of wood off the lock side to jam into the paddle rack to keep them up. £26 in 1996

I thought of suing a surveyor but found that breeding flying pigs was simpler and more successful.

This is true, but you just never know. I've met several boaters on the Thames who don't even carry an anchor because they came off the canals and never thought about it - or more likely were too tight to buy one. It's a bit like insurance. Most of the time you'll never need it, but the point is as Alan says, when you do need it, you need it and you need it to work.

Well, it only really sank once over 30 years ago when it still had a deep foredeck that drained through a pipe into the engine bilge, I got flu, it rained all December, auto pump failed as they do, the bilge filled up and it sank as far as it could on the mooring, which wasn't really very far. It just sat down on the mud and sulked. I got a phone call Xmas day and by the time I got there a mate had got a pump into the bilge and refloated me. About five years ago it needed resteeling again (it's probably a 1950s or very early 60s boat) and water started coming in through a hole in the engine bay. That was due to a bit of rubbish steeling at the previous rebottoming in the '90s. We stuck a pad and a brick on the hole and chugged down to Stoke Boats who glued a new boat to its lower half, more or less. It never really sank in any dramatic sense, just glugged a bit. Old boats do that sort of thing, you expect it, sort of. Never any water inside the boat itself. I keep thinking I've had it 30 years, but it's 35 now. Bought it in 1988. Seven grand, it cost me. Got it out of Exchange & Mart.

Really? Under protest, when I bought the house I'm in now. He missed the roof problem, the damp in a cupboard, a dangerous electric set up and a woodburner badly and dangerously installed, the uneven floor joists in the upstairs (a dormer bungalow) and a few other things I can't remember, but spent a page condemning the colours the rooms were painted (which we liked), another saying how unsatisfactory the room layout was (one of the reasons we bought the house) and wrote three paragraphs stating that the real problem with the house was the council estate half a mile away the other side of the main road. The guy who did the house before, didn't notice there was no fire break in the loft between me and the next terrace. He did notice the bedroom floor was springy and said the joists were rotten. They were in perfect nick when we looked. He missed the damp in the wall. My wives have always wanted surveys, and then moaned about them, partly because I made them pay for them out of their own pockets, not mine. If your friend is a surveyor, I'm sure he does exactly what he is contracted to do, just as the OP's did. There's no wrongdoing implied, and it's all perfectly straight and he will describe exactly what his experience and expertise tells him he sees. And it's totally , completely, and utterly useless (as you can tell from the OP's story) , a sheer waste of time and money for everyone except for him, because he's making an honest living out of it, and that's how the economy works. We live in an age of consultants, who we mistakenly take for experts. PS I didn't have a survey on my boat, I took a knowledgeable friend. 30 years later, I'm still very happy with it.

I am very sorry for you, and I fear you will get nowhere. Most surveyors have so many get out clauses in their contracts, for you to win a legal case would be very unlikely . Let this be a warning to others, never use a surveyor recommended by a broker or vendor to guard against conflicts of interest.

Is that on one of them really wide 'northern canals' I keep hearing about?

You won't be able to go to and fro to your swinging mooring in F9 gale as we had yesterday and again tomorrow. I did it for a few summer months, not without incident, I'm an experienced sailor, and was reasonably fit at the time. The other thing is that not all moorings are available all year round. Not sure if OP is thinking about a tug style narrowboat rather than a tug, one being much more seaworthy than the other. NBs don't even have bow rollers or proper chain handling equipment.

Be aware that this is called CANAL WORLD forum, so is mainly inhabited by inland cruising enthusiasts. Some will have tidal experience, but most don't. That is why I suggested that you would do better on a forum like YBW. https://forums.ybw.com/

The majority of people ‘residential’ on boats are on a normal leisure mooring and supply an accommodation address (friends, family), stay on board long term and basically keep their heads down. No security of tenure, upset the marina and you are out with no recourse . Even C&RT leisure moorings are used like this, supply a postal address and away you go. You need to go in person, talk to the marina, and kind of ask ‘how long can I stay aboard’ nudge nudge etc.

Solicitors send clients a plan - usually a Land Registry plan and ask their client to confirm the boundaries shown on the plan are those expected to be acquired; if not, a surveyor is sent for. It sounds as though the lawyer has done its job properly; one doesn't expect the lawyer to inspect the property usually. This bit is telling. Despite having the boat for a couple of years, the fault only became apparent when the wall and shower was removed. Not something the surveyor could reasonably be expected to do. I have my doubts that the small print you suggest is typical. If the surveyor includes too many limitations on the scope of the report that were not agreed at the time of instruction, you would have a good case for declining to pay the fee or requiring that they are removed. If you accepted the limitations at the outset - then you can hardly be surprised the report is subject to the same.

I'd start by researching hire boat firms in the area you are interested in, this will determine the airport you fly into (or other transport options, eg air-train-taxi probably).

Have you actually looked at any hire boats? I have no idea where you get the idea that "normal boats are cramped and uncomfortable". Small ones probably, but you can get 50ft plus narrow hire boats set up for just two people. You can't get away from the narrow beam because it is set by the lock width on narrow canals. I have not heard of a wide bam hire boat on the Grand Union canal and in general wide beam boats can be a bit of a handful on even the broad canals, but there are wide beams hire boats on the Leeds and Liverpool canal. We had a 50ft ex hire boat and it was perfectly comfortable enough to spend several/many weeks aboard during the season. I think that you need to do more research. Plenty of hire boats described online for you to look at.

I know of someone who has tried that. Said it did not work and the juddering of the lock gear was potentially destructive.

you guys know you'll die some day right