Ultramax Lithium batteries

[rusty69]

2 minutes ago, Dr Bob said:

Way to go!!!! It could power my plasma toilet!

Way to go alright. By the time it reaches the boat market i'll be 122

[Dr Bob]

1 minute ago, rusty69 said:

Way to go alright. By the time it reaches the boat market i'll be 122

Will that be your waist measurement in cms? Are you putting on weight?

[rusty69]

1 minute ago, Dr Bob said:

Will that be your waist measurement in cms? Are you putting on weight?

Sorry, missed out the . Should have read 12.2 in volts.

[Dr Bob]

2 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

Sorry, missed out the . Should have read 12.2 in volts.

You wont be very well charged then? ....well maybe 100% if you look at your smartgauge

[rusty69]

28 minutes ago, Dr Bob said:

You wont be very well charged then? ....well maybe 100% if you look at your smartgauge

I'm not at full capacity at the best of times

[system 4-50]

I'll bet that 2 years ago, their current project's rare earth activated battery was the b's n e's and just required a little further development.

[WotEver]

Sodium. I think that’ll be the next thing. And there’s looooaaads of sodium around. 

But apparently it’s bad for your arteries. 

[Sea Dog]

5 minutes ago, WotEver said:

Sodium. I think that’ll be the next thing. And there’s looooaaads of sodium around. 

But apparently it’s bad for your arteries. 

For inland boaters, far more important is it's merit on tributaries... 

[TheBiscuits]

I see they have made a major breakthrough in fusion.

Instead of it being 30 years away (it's always been 30 years away since the 1940's) it's now only 15 years away.

 

 

[Richard10002]

34 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

I see they have made a major breakthrough in fusion.

Instead of it being 30 years away (it's always been 30 years away since the 1940's) it's now only 15 years away.

 

 

How long will it be 15 years away?

[TheBiscuits]

11 minutes ago, Richard10002 said:

How long will it be 15 years away?

Probably until they hit a snag that will make it be 20 years away.

[WotEver]

18 minutes ago, Richard10002 said:

How long will it be 15 years away?

You’d have to ask Heisenberg. But he’s not too sure. 

[smileypete]

On 06/03/2018 at 14:23, rusty69 said:

Jeez Dr Bob.I thought you would have heard of Johny B Goode.Pioneer of Li-Ion batteries and guitarist.

Cool. Now listening to:

[Iain_S]

5 hours ago, Dr Bob said:

Hydrogen fuel cells are a great way to produce power....until you have to find the hydrogen. This battery seems to be able to generate the hydrogen from water......if it can do that then dai-lithium will be a thing of the past. Way to go!!!! It could power my plasma toilet!

During charging, the carbon in the electrode bonds with protons generated by splitting water with the help of electrons from the power supply. The protons are released again and pass back through the reversible fuel cell to form water with oxygen from air to generate power. Unlike fossil fuels, the carbon does not burn or cause emissions in the process.

Unless I'm reading this wrong, it sounds a lot like a perpetual motion machine.

[Dr Bob]

35 minutes ago, Iain_S said:

 

 

Unless I'm reading this wrong, it sounds a lot like a perpetual motion machine.

Yes, that's how I'm reading this.

 

[WotEver]

36 minutes ago, Iain_S said:

Unless I'm reading this wrong, it sounds a lot like a perpetual motion machine.

Nope, because they don’t mention efficiency. 

37 minutes ago, Iain_S said:

... generated by splitting water with the help of electrons from the power supply

So how much power do you have to put in to achieve that? An awful lot more than you get out, is my guess. 

[Tom and Bex]

As I mentioned in the other thread on lithium batteries, I'm seriously considering installing them on our boat. Due to almost complete lack of first hand accounts using them on here, I've been doing some research of my own. All the information I've found points to LiFePO4 being very safe - at least as safe as lead acid. I have found the following link interesting reading, although quite a long article. It also contains a video demonstrating the safety of this technology: https://marinehowto.com/lifepo4-batteries-on-boats/ 

Main problem with these batteries is over discharging and over charging an individual cell (or set of parallel cells). As long as no cell rises above about 3.8v on charge, or below about 2.8 on discharge they should last a very long time. This can be monitored (and protected) quite cheaply and simply. If anyone is interested I can list my current ideas and costs for this. The general consensus is that if balanced initially, then when used in our type of usage cell balance is rarely an issue. Some modifications may also be needed to charging system. 

My thoughts are taking me a slightly different route from some others on here who are using the 2nd hand Valence batteries. If anyone is interested in seeing what's inside these Valence batteries see this video: https://youtu.be/p4kHF__U1vk

My current thinking is to use cells such as these: https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F192458038733

Tom

[smileypete]

Loads of discussion of lithiums with real world experience on the lumpy water forums, eg this should keep anyone busy for a good few hours:

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f14/lifepo4-batteries-discussion-thread-for-those-using-them-as-house-banks-65069.html

Something that came out of a quick skim is that some are considering lithiums as a kind of substitute for an inboard genny, which makes the price a bit more bearable.

[nicknorman]

9 hours ago, Tom and Bex said:

As I mentioned in the other thread on lithium batteries, I'm seriously considering installing them on our boat. Due to almost complete lack of first hand accounts using them on here, I've been doing some research of my own. All the information I've found points to LiFePO4 being very safe - at least as safe as lead acid. I have found the following link interesting reading, although quite a long article. It also contains a video demonstrating the safety of this technology: https://marinehowto.com/lifepo4-batteries-on-boats/ 

Main problem with these batteries is over discharging and over charging an individual cell (or set of parallel cells). As long as no cell rises above about 3.8v on charge, or below about 2.8 on discharge they should last a very long time. This can be monitored (and protected) quite cheaply and simply. If anyone is interested I can list my current ideas and costs for this. The general consensus is that if balanced initially, then when used in our type of usage cell balance is rarely an issue. Some modifications may also be needed to charging system. 

My thoughts are taking me a slightly different route from some others on here who are using the 2nd hand Valence batteries. If anyone is interested in seeing what's inside these Valence batteries see this video: https://youtu.be/p4kHF__U1vk

My current thinking is to use cells such as these: https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F192458038733

Tom

On any Lithium installation, the BMS (battery management system) is a must. Batteries designed for leisure use have built in BMS. If you are going to brew your own, you will definitely need to fit a BMS.

[MtB]

10 hours ago, Tom and Bex said:

I have found the following link interesting reading, although quite a long article. It also contains a video demonstrating the safety of this technology: https://marinehowto.com/lifepo4-batteries-on-boats/ 

 

Many, many thanks for posting this. I have just spent two hours reading your link and all pulls together all the snippets of information I've picked up over the years about LFP batteries and fills in loads of grey areas and gaps in my basic knowledge. I can't recommend it highly enough for anyone trying to understand LFP batteries. 

And in two hours I only got half way through!

[Dr Bob]

10 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Many, many thanks for posting this. I have just spent two hours reading your link and all pulls together all the snippets of information I've picked up over the years about LFP batteries and fills in loads of grey areas and gaps in my basic knowledge. I can't recommend it highly enough for anyone trying to understand LFP batteries. 

And in two hours I only got half way through!

Yes, many thanks to Tom and Bex for the link. I'm only 1/3rd of the way through after an hour but I am trying to supervise a 10 month old (little person) ....very trying...... It is a good read though.

[mrsmelly]

13 minutes ago, Dr Bob said:

Yes, many thanks to Tom and Bex for the link. I'm only 1/3rd of the way through after an hour but I am trying to supervise a 10 month old (little person) ....very trying...... It is a good read though.

Ahh well done Bob perhaps you can help me out and so I dont have to troll through it inform me after having a total rewire for the batteries and bought any other specialist bits and the battery thingies themselves just how much cheaper are they going to be than the cheapos that give me stirling service at present? Thanks for that 

[rusty69]

4 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

Ahh well done Bob perhaps you can help me out and so I dont have to troll through it inform me after having a total rewire for the batteries and bought any other specialist bits and the battery thingies themselves just how much cheaper are they going to be than the cheapos that give me stirling service at present? Thanks for that 

You don't need to read it all to make a decision, just the warning on the front page ,decision made (for me anyway)

Unless you want a big fat dent, where your wallet used to be, I do not believe LiFePO4 is ready for mass DIY prime time builds. Read with CAUTION!!! If you think you want LiFePO4 PLEASE READ VERY CAREFULLY! Once you are done reading this, and it makes sense to you, then please spend another 6-8 months reading everything you can including every single LiFePO4 white paper you can get your hands on.

[MtB]

10 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

Ahh well done Bob perhaps you can help me out and so I dont have to troll through it inform me after having a total rewire for the batteries and bought any other specialist bits and the battery thingies themselves just how much cheaper are they going to be than the cheapos that give me stirling service at present? Thanks for that 

 

Given they last 20 times as long as your el cheapos and cost 20 times the price, the jury is still out on that one!

[rusty69]

4 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Given they can possibly  last 20 times as long as your el cheapos and cost 20 times the price, the jury is still out on that one!

corrected for you

Edited March 10, 2018 by rusty69