Ultramax Lithium batteries

[TheBiscuits]

1 minute ago, nb Innisfree said:

Sorry,  typo! £44k heh heh!

I think it's £5.5k before £1k back on the old one. So £4.5k

I guessed it was a typo - the new Leaf cars aren't £44k!

 

[nb Innisfree]

1 minute ago, TheBiscuits said:

I guessed it was a typo - the new Leaf cars aren't £44k!

 

The older outgoing Leaf prices are starting to look better, maybe next year some bargains then I think I'll take the plunge into EV ownership. We do about half our 16k per year on local journeys so will carry on running two cars. 

[TheBiscuits]

1 minute ago, nb Innisfree said:

The older outgoing Leaf prices are starting to look better, maybe next year some bargains then I think I'll take the plunge into EV ownership. We do about half our 16k per year on local journeys so will carry on running two cars. 

I keep wondering about that too. 

The ones where you had to lease the batteries were an absolute no-no for me, as we don't spend anything like the monthly lease prices on fuel.

Maybe a Twizy for Mrs Biscuit - she used to have a Smart car and liked it.  Bit like driving a gokart

 

[peterboat]

2 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

An electric Ford Transit! Surely that must have been one helluva custom modification, rather than a standard offering from Ford. I'm not aware of any electric vans on the market so far. 

I expect Peterboat will be along sooner or later. 

Mike there are lots of electric vans on the market PSA group and Renault have them Smiths did the Transits and as Jim runs one in central london for free I suspect they work well. However they are worth more in their component parts so they end up getting broken, as for electric cars there are lots of different makers out there other leafs and Teslas google is your friend

16 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

I keep wondering about that too. 

The ones where you had to lease the batteries were an absolute no-no for me, as we don't spend anything like the monthly lease prices on fuel.

Maybe a Twizy for Mrs Biscuit - she used to have a Smart car and liked it.  Bit like driving a gokart

 

I had a twizy great car it is like driving a gokart so much fun

[nb Innisfree]

17 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

I keep wondering about that too. 

The ones where you had to lease the batteries were an absolute no-no for me, as we don't spend anything like the monthly lease prices on fuel.

Maybe a Twizy for Mrs Biscuit - she used to have a Smart car and liked it.  Bit like driving a gokart

 

Twizy... mmm... a bit extreme for me but as you say good enough for the missus,  lol! 

[jimbob01]

I do have an electric transit... no tax

3 quid to charge...

Insurance is about 500

Does about 80 -90 miles in the warm

Bit less in the cold 

[nb Innisfree]

4 minutes ago, peterboat said:

Mike there are lots of electric vans on the market PSA group and Renault have them Smiths did the Transits and as Jim runs one in central london for free I suspect they work well. However they are worth more in their component parts so they end up getting broken, as for electric cars there are lots of different makers out there other leafs and Teslas google is your friend

Yes there are others but apart from Tesla a Leaf is well equipped. 

[smileypete]

On 3/3/2018 at 09:37, Dr Bob said:

Sapphal's batteries were only 3-4 times more expensive than cheapo LAs which changes the dynamic somewhat. Don't need to run the engine forever and dump the Smartgauge? We are getting nearer if it can be believed.

Not impossible with FLAs, just split the bank then cycle one half while fully charging the other half. Then swap over rinse and repeat.

Would be cool to have a FLA BMS that could do this N ways automatically using mosfets and voltage converters. Not much market for it though with cheap lithiums around the corner...

Thing about lithiums is they MUST have a BMS or possibly go up in flames, so the BMS eliminates some of the 'care and feeding' that FLAs need. That plus no sulphation and topping up make it near enough a no brainer, apart from the current high cost of course.

Edited March 4, 2018 by smileypete

[rusty69]

9 minutes ago, smileypete said:

Not impossible with FLAs, just split the bank then cycle one half while fully charging the other half.

Sounds like the kinda crazy thing that  @cereal tiller would do

[mrsmelly]

25 minutes ago, smileypete said:

Not impossible with FLAs, just split the bank then cycle one half while fully charging the other half. Then swap over rinse and repeat.

Would be cool to have a FLA BMS that could do this N ways automatically using mosfets and voltage converters. Not much market for it though with cheap lithiums around the corner...

Thing about lithiums is they MUST have a BMS or possibly go up in flames, so the BMS eliminates some of the 'care and feeding' that FLAs need. That plus no sulphation and topping up make it near enough a no brainer, apart from the current high cost of course.

Pete, can you fit and forget charging straight from the alternater as we do with FLAs or is there even more messing about needed? and of course cost involved? 

[Dr Bob]

1 hour ago, smileypete said:

Not impossible with FLAs, just split the bank then cycle one half while fully charging the other half. Then swap over rinse and repeat.

Incorrect. A 600Ahr bank will charge at say 10A above 95% whereas one half the size will only charge at 5A so the last 5% will be twice as fast with the bigger bank. To get to full, a bigger bank accepts the power better. Pointless splitting the banks if full charge is what you are after, which it is with LAs

Edited March 4, 2018 by Dr Bob

[TheBiscuits]

4 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

Pete, can you fit and forget charging straight from the alternater as we do with FLAs or is there even more messing about needed? and of course cost involved? 

The problem is that the drop in replacement ones need to have all the battery management gubbins built inside each battery case, and that makes them mad expensive if you are buying a larger bank - you are paying for 5 or 6 battery management systems.

For larger banks, the way to go is get a separate BMS then connect all your loads and feeds (alternator, solar etc) to the BMS.  This means the BMS is the only thing connected to the batteries, but the batteries are then not drop in replacements for lead acid batteries.

[WotEver]

41 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

The problem is that the drop in replacement ones need to have all the battery management gubbins built inside each battery case, and that makes them mad expensive if you are buying a larger bank - you are paying for 5 or 6 battery management systems.

For larger banks, the way to go is get a separate BMS then connect all your loads and feeds (alternator, solar etc) to the BMS.  This means the BMS is the only thing connected to the batteries, but the batteries are then not drop in replacements for lead acid batteries.

I’m wondering how long it will be before someone (boater, caravanner, off-gridder) finds a lithium battery without a BMS, and thinks “Gosh, that’s cheap, how clever am I?”

[TheBiscuits]

2 minutes ago, WotEver said:

I’m wondering how long it will be before someone (boater, caravanner, off-gridder) finds a lithium battery without a BMS, and thinks “Gosh, that’s cheap, how clever am I?”

My money is on a boater. Probably in London.

And I suspect they only get one lithium to try it out, and just swap the one failed lead acid battery in a bank of four.

[WotEver]

2 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

My money is on a boater. Probably in London.

And I suspect they only get one lithium to try it out, and just swap the one failed lead acid battery in a bank of four.

Yep, I’d not bet against any of that. 

[peterboat]

My batteries which are the same as Jims have a bms in each battery they can be connected together and a controller keeps everything right. Jim has found however if he doesnt charge above 13.6 volts per battery the cells stay in balance and he can check this with the leads and software he has. As soon as he connects the batteries balance themselves but his comment to me was they are running pretty evenly with each other so every couple on months is often enough. As for charging from an alternator as long as its regulated at 13.4-6 volts when the batteries are full it will stop charging as it does with FLAs. None of this is an issue to me as I will be using solar and the whispergen and I will set them to charge at 27 volts which will mean about 85% charged for my lithiums,excess power in the summer will be used for heating water in the cauliflower.

[WotEver]

2 minutes ago, peterboat said:

As for charging from an alternator as long as its regulated at 13.4-6 volts when the batteries are full it will stop charging as it does with FLAs.

Do you have any idea whether or not the BMS would protect the battery if the alternator became faulty and started chucking out 15V+ as we’ve occasionally seen reported here?

[TheBiscuits]

6 minutes ago, WotEver said:

Do you have any idea whether or not the BMS would protect the battery if the alternator became faulty and started chucking out 15V+ as we’ve occasionally seen reported here?

Peterboat's wont - it's the Valence one so the loads and feeds connect directly to the battery.

Victron's do, but I suspect they have built half a B2B inside their Lithium BMS.  It's a good way to do it for many applications, but that blue paint must be staggeringly expensive!

Edited March 4, 2018 by TheBiscuits
Duh! not Sterling!

[peterboat]

12 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

Peterboat's wont - it's the Valence one so the loads and feeds connect directly to the battery.

Victron's do, but I suspect they have built half a B2B inside their Lithium BMS.  It's a good way to do it for many applications, but that blue paint must be staggeringly expensive!

I was hoping that they had disconnects inside so that if the BMS sensed over voltage it disconected the charging source, if they would reply to emails I would find out

[WotEver]

1 hour ago, TheBiscuits said:

Peterboat's wont - it's the Valence one so the loads and feeds connect directly to the battery.

Victron's do, but I suspect they have built half a B2B inside their Lithium BMS.  It's a good way to do it for many applications, but that blue paint must be staggeringly expensive!

Blue paint is slightly more expensive than gold leaf I understand. 

[mrsmelly]

20 minutes ago, WotEver said:

Blue paint is slightly more expensive than gold leaf I understand. 

But not quite as expensive as yellow paint!!

[cereal tiller]

3 hours ago, rusty69 said:

Sounds like the kinda crazy thing that  @cereal tiller would do

Of Course , one Bank gets a Full and Perfect Charge while the Service one Keeps up the good work ...Chap.

[peterboat]

4 hours ago, TheBiscuits said:

Peterboat's wont - it's the Valence one so the loads and feeds connect directly to the battery.

Victron's do, but I suspect they have built half a B2B inside their Lithium BMS.  It's a good way to do it for many applications, but that blue paint must be staggeringly expensive!

Having looked at the files I received with the batteries, I now know I need a u BMS, and that connects to disconnects to ensure no overcharging and also no over discharging. It controls the BMS in the batteries and monitors everything they do, I have to have one of these programed for the job all clever stuff methinks but at least it will ensure that the batteries have a long life

[TheBiscuits]

10 minutes ago, peterboat said:

Having looked at the files I received with the batteries, I now know I need a u BMS, and that connects to disconnects to ensure no overcharging and also no over discharging. It controls the BMS in the batteries and monitors everything they do, I have to have one of these programed for the job all clever stuff methinks but at least it will ensure that the batteries have a long life

Be prepared for a shock (pun intended) when you get a price for it!

Valence UK can be contacted at 028 9084 5400

Unit 63 Mallusk Enterprise Park
Mallusk Drive,
Mallusk, Newtownabbey
Co. Antrim,
Northern Ireland BT36 4GN

[peterboat]

2 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

Be prepared for a shock (pun intended) when you get a price for it!

Valence UK can be contacted at 028 9084 5400

Unit 63 Mallusk Enterprise Park
Mallusk Drive,
Mallusk, Newtownabbey
Co. Antrim,
Northern Ireland BT36 4GN

Do you know how much they are? I have the number already, and I know a chap that works there because of an EV forum I am on, I was going to email him tonight